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The Stories of Genesis: Myth or Literally True

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
The FACT that you use the fossils of separate and distinct species as intermediates makes me wonder if understand what an intermediate fossil is.

Yes. An intermediate species is one whose properties are intermediate between species before and after it.


Since there is no such thing, I have no idea. What do you think is required to classify a fossil as intermediate.
Then see the above definition.

Right it will eliminate some but it will not change the species of any.
Not in one generation. But when the process happens over 1000 generations, it can.

The process is similar to how languages change over time. There are small changes from decade to decade. These changes add up over time and in 2000 years you have a completely different language. In the same way, the population of animals will change slightly from generation to generation. Over many generations, you will get a different species. Over more generations, you will get a new genus.

Even if that was true about DNA, and it isn't, restoring the variability in the population will not change the species.
Restoring the variability is what mutation does. And that new variability allows changes in the same direction, leading over many generations to a new species.


Posting links is not giving evidence. Cut and paste the evidence your links offered as evidence. I guarantee there will be no evidence in any of your links. Now is a good chance o prove me wrong.

The links are videos showing the simulations that were run that you asked for. I predicted you would ignore the links. You did.

That shows you are nothing but a troll. if and when you actually look at the links I provided, then I will continue this discussion. Until then, I am done.

Very little.

Well, you might want to learn. They are relevant for this discussion.



Then what?
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Yes. An intermediate species is one whose properties are intermediate between species before and after it.

Okay, show the properties between hippo and pakicetus.

Not in one generation. But when the process happens over 1000 generations, it can.

I thought you agreed time will not change the laws of genetics.

The process is similar to how languages change over time. There are small changes from decade to decade. These changes add up over time and in 2000 years you have a completely different language. In the same way, the population of animals will change slightly from generation to generation. Over many generations, you will get a different species. Over more generations, you will get a new genus.

You can't equate what happens in science with what happens in non-science.


Restoring the variability is what mutation does. And that new variability allows changes in the same direction, leading over many generations to a new species.

That is absurd and completely unscientific. Mutations do not restore, they alter a characteristic the kid would have gotten without the mutation, skin color for example, t but they NEVER changes a species, Variability is never lost. It depends on the gene pool of the parents.


The links are videos showing the simulations that were run that you asked for. I predicted you would ignore the links. You did.

That's right because they will not show any evidence. They will only show what needs to happen.

That shows you are nothing but a troll. if and when you actually look at the links I provided, then I will continue this discussion. Until then, I am done.

And your unwillingness to cut and past from one of your links shows, you don't have any evidence.

Well, you might want to learn. They are relevant for this discussion.

Then what?

I have learned what I need to know and if you are unwilling to cut and past what you consider evidence, it is time to quit.

You would if you could, but you can't.

Have a nice day.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
See how the Bible is prophetic?
And these prophecies already happened and will happen until Kingdom comes.

Now for the last horse.

Revelation 6:7-8 New International Version (NIV)

When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

upload_2017-5-8_21-58-53.jpeg


The Black Death was one of the most devastating pandemics in human history, resulting in the deaths of an estimated 75 to 200 million people in Eurasia and peaking in Europe in the years 1346–1353. Although there were several competing theories as to the cause of the Black Death, analyses of DNA from people in northern and southern Europe published in 2010 and 2011 indicate that the pathogen responsible was the Yersinia pestis bacterium, resulting in several forms of plague, including the bubonic plague.

The Black Death is thought to have originated in the arid plains of Central Asia, where it then traveled along the Silk Road, reaching Crimea by 1343. From there, it was most likely carried by Oriental rat fleas living on the black rats that were regular passengers on merchant ships. Spreading throughout the Mediterranean and Europe, the Black Death is estimated to have killed 30–60% of Europe's total population. In total, the plague may have reduced the world population from an estimated 450 million down to 350–375 million in the 14th century. The world population as a whole did not recover to pre-plague levels until the 17th century. The plague recurred occasionally in Europe until the 19th century.

The plague created a series of religious, social, and economic upheavals, which had profound effects on the course of European history.
Black Death - Wikipedia

300px-Blackdeath2.gif


Written by Apostle John in the Book of Revelations, as told to him by the angel of the Lord Jesus Christ, in his exile in the island of Patmos - about 1,250 years before the event happened.

There are 7 seals, just mentioned the 4 seals
I could continue on the 5th seal
Couldn't disclose these bible prophecies in one sitting but I could - if I did, you would have no time verifying the authenticity and genuineness of these verses compared with historical accounts. And these are prophetic verses and conforms with the sequence of historical and verifiable events.

Would I take the bible at its face value? Yes, of course.
When God said he made the universe in 6 days, he did it.

The word of God is alive and active.
And we are moving ever closer to the Day of the Lord.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Okay, show the properties between hippo and pakicetus.
You mean, between the ancestor of the hippo and pakicetus? Why? You will ignore it anyway.

I thought you agreed time will not change the laws of genetics.
It doesn't. The laws allow for variability.

You can't equate what happens in science with what happens in non-science.
Like I said, it is an *analogy*. But it is a *good* analogy in many ways. Small variations can, over time, lead to large changes.

That is absurd and completely unscientific. Mutations do not restore, they alter a characteristic the kid would have gotten without the mutation, skin color for example, t but they NEVER changes a species, Variability is never lost. It depends on the gene pool of the parents.
The mutations produce variability (differences) with what was there before. Some mutations duplicate genes. Some change genes.

That's right because they will not show any evidence. They will only show what needs to happen.
Then watch the videos and critique them. Be specific.

[QUOTAnd your unwillingness to cut and past from one of your links shows, you don't have any evidence.[/QUOTE]
I can't cut and paste from a video. You will have to watch them.

I have learned what I need to know and if you are unwilling to cut and past what you consider evidence, it is time to quit.
I can see that your mind is made up and you don't want to be confused with facts.

You would if you could, but you can't.

Have a nice day.

Once again, you show yourself a troll that is unwilling to do anything but criticize and deny the evidence. When you look at the videos, we will have something to discuss again.

Until then, goodbye.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Passages can be both literal and figurative.

All allegories are based on a literal event(Gal 4:21-31).
Sure, it is possible for the bible mixed literals with figurative.

But you are missing my points, omega.

The recording of literal events, or writing them as literals, doesn't mean they are "true" as if they were the historical.

The Flood and the Tower of Babel (people speaking only one language one moment, then they all speaking different languages and not be able to understand each other's), for instances, are written as if they were literal in the sense they don't contain metaphors, but none of them happened, historically, because they are both myths.

Second, you are forgetting the definition of literal, it mean the writing is:
  1. without metaphors (or figurative)
  2. or without exaggeration
The Flood and the ToB may not contain metaphors, they do contain exaggeration, therefore they are not "literal".
 

siti

Well-Known Member
The verse you quoted earlier.

"The Blessed Beauty is also a lineal descendant of Abraham, for Abraham had other sons besides Ishmael and Isaac who in those days migrated to the lands of Persia and Afghanistan, and the Blessed Beauty is one of their descendants." – Abdu'l Baha, Some Answered Questions p.213

Vague enough to run a bus through.....
Objection on two counts your honor...

1. It is specific (not vague) in identifying Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac and 'other sons' - nothing vague about where the descendants of these offspring ended up either - in Afghanistan and, importantly, Persia. Although Abdu'l Baha gives no evidence for this, it is clear that he felt the need to put them in Persian in order to establish Baha'u'llah's ancestry from Abraham. The actual existence of Abraham and his sons is known only from the Torah, which, as indicated in the previous post was not written down until about 1000 years after the supposed events surrounding their lives took place. But it is not vague - it makes a specific claim about the lineage of the "Blessed Beauty" from a very specific, but probably mythological character.

2. If the interpretation of Abdu'l Baha in this case is indeed "vague enough to run a bus through" - in what sense should we regard his interpretations as "infallible" - only in the sense that they are so vague they could mean anything - or nothing - and therefore cannot "fail" to match some jiggery pokery spin-doctored "fact" or another?
 
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rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I am not a YEC, and it is inaccurate to believe that anyone who accepts the historicity of Genesis is a YEC. Rather than answer each point, consider that:
1. Jehovah purposed that animals and people survive the Flood. Surely the Creator of heaven and earth could accomplish his purpose, IMO. Isaiah 55:11 says of the true God: "So my word that goes out of my mouth will be. It will not return to me without results, But it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight."
2. The earth was a far different place then it is today. Scientists believe the climate was much warmer. I believe the waters suspended above the earth created a uniformly warm climate.
3. The Flood not only radically changed earth's climate, but also it's topography. Psalm 104:8,9 declares: "Mountains ascended and valleys descended—To the place you established for them. You set a boundary that they [flood waters] should not pass,That they should never again cover the earth." I believe prior to the global Flood, mountains were far lower, and seas far shallower. The Flood caused massive and permanent changes to the earth.
4. I think that food, properly stored, would last for the year or so spent in the Ark.
5. Nothing I read in the Bible leads me to believe the Flood was anything other than true history, with great meaning to all mankind today. (Matthew 24:38,39)
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
You mean, between the ancestor of the hippo and pakicetus? Why? You will ignore it anyway.

You would if you could but YOU CAN'T. let me remind you just showing picture is not evidence. You must show how legs becoming fins is genetically possible. You also need to give some kind of an explanation why a land animal surviving very well on land need to become something else. That makes no sense, especially for evolutionists who push natural selection as a mechanism for a change of species.

It doesn't. The laws allow for variability.

Only within the species. This includes eye color, height, skin color etc., all determined by which gene in the gene pool is dominant or recessive.

Like I said, it is an *analogy*. But it is a *good* analogy in many ways. Small variations can, over time, lead to large changes.

It can't. Time will not change the laws of genetics, and you can't give an example of it ever happening. You can only say it did by faith alone. After their kind is proved thousands of times every day.

What you say about mutation is basically true, but none of the changes will result in a change of species.

Then watch the videos and critique them. Be specific.

I have quit checking links, including videos because for over 20 years NONE of them ever presents any evidence,

I can't cut and paste from a video. You will have to watch them.

Why are you willing to post a video, but not what is presented in writing?

I can see that your mind is made up and you don't want to be confused with facts.

I can see you are unwilling to do something very simple and not time consuming because you are afraid I will show you your faith is not based on real scientific facts.

Once again, you show yourself a troll that is unwilling to do anything but criticize and deny the evidence. When you look at the videos, we will have something to discuss again.

Once again you have demonstrated "you would if you could but you can't. I guess this discussion is over since you are afraid to cut and past evidence from an evo link. Don't feel bad, not our other evos have done it either. That is because you have no real scientific evidence.

You have bought a bag with chicken legs sicking out of the top and you think there is a chicken in the bag.

Until then, goodbye.
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Sure, it is possible for the bible mixed literals with figurative.

But you are missing my points, omega.

The recording of literal events, or writing them as literals, doesn't mean they are "true" as if they were the historical.

I am well aware of that and have been told it may time and I accpet it as true.

The Flood and the Tower of Babel (people speaking only one language one moment, then they all speaking different languages and not be able to understand each other's), for instances, are written as if they were literal in the sense they don't contain metaphors, but none of them happened, historically, because they are both myths.

Now I will turn the table on you. What evidence do you have that those accounts are myths. You saying you saying the aree does not make it true. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Second, you are forgetting the definition of literal, it mean the writing is:
  1. without metaphors (or figurative)
  2. or without exaggeration
Again, you must provided the evidence they are figurative and exaggerated.​
The Flood and the ToB may not contain metaphors, they do contain exaggeration, therefore they are not "literal".

Again, your OPINIONS are not evidence.

Don't forget, I have an omnipotent God on my side. ;)
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Now I will turn the table on you. What evidence do you have that those accounts are myths. You saying you saying the aree does not make it true. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Because there are other similar myths found in Babylonian myths that were contemporary to the composition of the bible in the Iron Age, and the Sumerian, Akkadian and Babylonian myths predated everything of the bible in the Bronze Age of the 3rd and 2nd millennia BCE.

No Hebrew or Jewish writings exist in the Bronze Age - fact. And if that's the case, and if Moses of the Exodus is set in the late 2nd millennium BCE, then Moses didn't write any of the books of the Jewish Torah or the Christian Pentateuch.

There are zero evidences to support Moses' existence. Zero evidences that the Israelites were held captive as slaves, or their mass liberation and mass exodus out of Egypt. Zero evidences that the Israelites, led by Joshua, invaded Canaan.

That there are no evidences to support anything about the Genesis or Exodus, tell us we are dealing with myths, not history, and certainly no archaeology.

The absence of any evidence tell us that it cannot be relied upon as being objectively and verifiably true. The only ways to accept Genesis and Exodus - are through belief and faith, which are subjective, and prone to biased.

Since all creation and Flood myths from Mesopotamia are clearly older than any writings of the Hebrews, then shouldn't the Sumerian and Babylonian texts be accepted as true, even more than the biblical version? Why aren't you worshipping An (Anu), Enlil (Ellil), Enki (Ea) and Ninhursaga - the four great gods of creation? Or Marduk from Enûma Elish?

The Genesis creation and flood myths are no more special than those Mesopotamian myths, and the bible's version is neither original, nor unique.

The only difference, from literary view, is that the Genesis is only unique that it has one god instead of many. But neither the Mesopotamian literature, nor the Hebrew-Jewish literature are historical.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Again, you must provided the evidence they are figurative and exaggerated.

In Genesis alone:

  1. Talking serpent - exaggeration.
  2. Creating man from dust - exaggeration.
  3. Creating woman from man's rib - exaggeration.
  4. From Adam to Noah, men living for 900+ years - exaggeration.
  5. Flood covering the entire earth, covering the highest mountains, and water vanishing - exaggeration.
  6. People speaking one language only, then speaking multiple number of different languages, in a single day - exaggeration.

The bible is also not a history book:

  • Egypt (or Mizraim) and Uruk (or Erech), not existing before the Flood - historically and archaeologically false.
There are more exaggerations elsewhere in the OT: including talking donkey, Jonah in a big fish, angel with wings and head with four faces (or was that four heads), etc.

How about Revelation? Both the Dragon and the Beast have 7 heads - exaggeration.

Can you seriously tell me none of those that I mentioned, are not exaggerations?

I would give the bible an A in exaggeration and wild imagination, but a F in history and in reality.
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Because there are other similar myths found in Babylonian myths that were contemporary to the composition of the bible in the Iron Age, and the Sumerian, Akkadian and Babylonian myths predated everything of the bible in the Bronze Age of the 3rd and 2nd millennia BCE.

The were not contemporary with the Torah, they did not predate the Torah and even if that was true, it do not prove the stories in the Bible to be myths. If anything the myths of the nations you mention were versions of what they copied from the Bible.

No Hebrew or Jewish writings exist in the Bronze Age - fact. And if that's the case, and if Moses of the Exodus is set in the late 2nd millennium BCE, then Moses didn't write any of the books of the Jewish Torah or the Christian Pentateuch.

You saying this is not evidence.

There are zero evidences to support Moses' existence. Zero evidences that the Israelites were held captive as slaves, or their mass liberation and mass exodus out of Egypt. Zero evidences that the Israelites, led by Joshua, invaded Canaan.

Of course there is. You just don't accept it. It is called the OT.

That there are no evidences to support anything about the Genesis or Exodus, tell us we are dealing with myths, not history, and certainly no archaeology.

There is no evidence the OT is not true.

The absence of any evidence tell us that it cannot be relied upon as being objectively and verifiably true. The only ways to accept Genesis and Exodus - are through belief and faith, which are subjective, and prone to biased.<<

If you can't prove the Torah to be false, that is the evidence and it is better than your unsupported OPINIONS.

Since all creation and Flood myths from Mesopotamia are clearly older than any writings of the Hebrews, then shouldn't the Sumerian and Babylonian texts be accepted as true, even more than the biblical version? Why aren't you worshipping An (Anu), Enlil (Ellil), Enki (Ea) and Ninhursaga - the four great gods of creation? Or Marduk from Enûma Elish?

They are not older.

The Genesis creation and flood myths are no more special than those Mesopotamian myths, and the bible's version is neither original, nor unique.

Yours OPINIONS are meaningless.

The only difference, from literary view, is that the Genesis is only unique that it has one god instead of many. But neither the Mesopotamian literature, nor the Hebrew-Jewish literature are historical.

Yours OPINIONS are meaningless. When you get some real evidence, get back to me.
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
In Genesis alone:

  1. Talking serpent - exaggeration.
Metaphor
  1. Creating man from dust - exaggeration.
    [*]Creating woman from man's rib - exaggeration.
Omnipotent God
  1. rom Adam to Noah, men living for 900+ years - exaggeration.
    [*]Flood covering the entire earth, covering the highest mountains, and water vanishing - exaggeration.
    [*]People speaking one language only, then speaking multiple number of different languages, in a single day - exaggeration
Unsupported OPINIONS.


The bible is also not a history book:

Silly statement.
  • Egypt (or Mizraim) and Uruk (or Erech), not existing before the Flood - historically and archaeologically false.
Unsupported opinions.
There are more exaggerations elsewhere in the OT: including talking donkey, Jonah in a big fish, angel with wings and head with four faces (or was that four heads), etc.

Continued unsupported opinions. FYI there was a man swallowed by a whale and spit out on a beach scaled from the whales stomach acid.

How about Revelation? Both the Dragon and the Beast have 7 heads - exaggeration.

Can you seriously tell me none of those that I mentioned, are not exaggerations?

I can tell all of the Bible is not literal.

I would give the bible an A in exaggeration and wild imagination, but a F in history and in reality.

I will give you an A+ in Bible ignorance and an F- in Bible understanding.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
The were not contemporary with the Torah, they did not predate the Torah and even if that was true, it do not prove the stories in the Bible to be myths. If anything the myths of the nations you mention were versions of what they copied from the Bible.

In the Middle East, these are the era of these regions, particularly in Egypt, Mesopotamia and the Levant (Syria, Phoenicia, Canaan (Palestine)).

Neolithic period 10,000 to 3100 BCE
Bronze Age 3100 to 1050 BCE
Iron Age 1050 to 100 BCE​

The earliest Hebrew written language is the Paleo-Hebrew (c 10th century - 135 BCE). Hence, the Hebrew written language fall within the Iron Age.

The oldest Hebrew inscriptions Zayit Stone and the Gezer Calendar, both dated to the 10 century BCE, none of these mention any passages from the bible. Facts.

But Moses was SUPPOSEDLY lived in the 2nd half of 2nd millennium BCE (which would fall under the late Bronze Age), but there are no Hebrew writings existing in this time period. No Bronze Age writings were found in any tablet or papyrus, no Torah, no Ten Commandments. Facts.

The oldest mentions of Flood, come from the Sumerian cuneiform of fragments of clay tablets are the Eridu Genesis and the poem of Death of Gilgames (or Bilgames, later Gilgamesh). They dated to the 2nd half of 3rd millennium BCE (or between 2300 and 2000 BCE). The Akkadian translation to the Death of Gilgames, 18th or 17th century BCE. Facts.

Here, the Sumerian hero is named Ziusudra. Ziusudra appeared in The Instructions of Shuruppak, dated to about 2400 to 2300 BCE. Ziusudra is also mentioned one version of the Sumerian King List (WB-62). More facts.

The oldest Babylonian version of the Epic of Gilgamesh, are dated to the Old Babylonian period (19th to 16th century BCE, coinciding with the 1st Babylonian dynasty). The fragments now kept in the Pennsylvania and Yale museums, are dated to that period. Facts.

The Bronze Age Epic of Gilgamesh was even found found in Megiddo, Israel, dating to the mid-2nd millennium BCE, tell us the Epic was known to the ancient Canaanites, living north, but west of the galilee sea. Fact.

Among the Dead Sea Scrolls, is the non-canonical Book of the Giants, where Gilgamesh and Humbaba were two giants or Nephilim mentioned, showing that the Jews knew of about the characters of the Epic of Gilgamesh. Fact.

The Torah or Pentateuch composition between 8th to 5th century BCE, therefore it fall under the Iron Age.

The oldest literary evidence of the bible that are extant today, is the two fragments of Silver Scroll (found in cave at Ketef Hinnom, southwest of Old Jerusalem). They were able to date fragments because of some pottery found near the scroll. The scroll contained small passages of the book of Numbers.

The Silver Scroll predated the Greek translation of the LXX Septuagint (late 3rd to 1st centuries BCE) and the Dead Sea Scrolls (Qumran, West Bank, dated from 3rd or 2nd century BCE to 2nd century CE).

The oldest surviving of the Septuagint are the fragments of the Leviticus and Deuteronomy, known as Papyrus Rylands 458, dated to 2nd century BCE. The oldest Greek translation of Genesis and the Exodus, are found in the fragments of Papyrus Fouad 266, dated to 1st century BCE, so they are dated only some decades before Jesus was born.

Look them all up, omega. All the literary evidences are there. The Mesopotamian literature (Sumerian poems, the epic of Gilgamesh and epic of Atrahasis), they all predated the oldest surviving, but badly preserved Silver Scroll of Ketef Hinnom.

Seriously, omega. You keep saying to me that what I have stated in my previous reply, to be "unsupported opinion", but here, I am showing all the literature that exist, which predated anything written in the bible. The existence of the Mesopotamian texts and Hebrew texts, showed

The only one who is expressing "unsupported opinions" - is the one who don't know about the history of Mesopotamian and Jewish literature - is you, omega2xx.

I am not saying that the stories of Gilgamesh and Ziusudra/Atrahasis/Utnapishtim are historical, but I am saying that these literature and myths - the clay tablets, the scrolls, manuscripts, the papyri - are older than the Genesis and Exodus.

The fact that there are no surviving texts of bible, especially the Genesis, in the Bronze Age, only showing that any claim you make about the Torah being older than Sumerian-Babylonian texts, are not only wrong p, but also unsubstantiated lies.

If you choose to ignore the information that I have provided, then that make you a liar and uneducated fool.

Edit:

Sources:
George, Andrew, The Gilgamesh: A New Translation, 1999, Penguin Classics
Standard Version , Tablet XI (Flood), page 88-95 (Neo-Assyrian, from Library of Nineveh, 7th century BCE)
The Pennsylvanian Tablet (Old Babylonian), p 100-107
The Yale Tablet (Old Babylonian), p 108-115
The Megiddo Tablet (Middle Babylonian), p 138-139
The Death of Bilgames, p 198-199 (Sumerian, mention of Ziusudra and the Deluge)
(George also have translations of fragments from Hattusa, the Hittite capital, and from Amarna, Egypt. He also mentioned the Ugarit Tablet, is very much complete, but so far no publication of its translation)​
Dalley, Stephanie, Myths from Mesopotamia: Creation, The Flood, Gilgamesh and Others, (revised edition 2000), Oxford World's Classics
The Epic of Atrahasis, p 9-35
Gilgamesh, Standard Version, Tablet XI (Flood), p 109-116
The Epic of Creation, p 233-274 (better known as Enûma Eliš, a story about Tiamat, Ea (Enlil) and Marduk.)
Jacobsen, Thorkild, The Harps that Once...: Sumerian Poetry in Translation, 1997, Yale University Press
Part 4 (Myths)
The Eridu Genesis, p 145-150
The Birth of Man, p 151-166
Enlil and Ninlil, p 167-180​
The Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature (ETCSL)
1.1.2 Enki and Ninmah
1.7.4 The Flood Story (Eridu Genesis)
5.6.1 The instructions of Curuppag (The Instructions of Shuruppak)​
 
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gnostic

The Lost One
A child can read a story that leads to a moral at the end. The story may contain talking rabbits, cats and dogs. Even though the story never happened, none the less, the story may be true.
Yes, that is the values of myths, fables, allegories and parables.

The values come from the meanings of the messages, not the historicity of the Genesis.

The truth come from wisdom. Trying to match the scriptures to history or to science, are doomed to fail miserably, because the Genesis is neither a history book, nor a science textbook.
 
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CG Didymus

Veteran Member
True, but again, one of many many prophecies based on faith. I believe in the Baha'i Faith, but I do not rely on the claim of prophecy to support my belief.

Your mindless demeaning accusations of other interpretations are egocentric and self serving of your own exclusive claim.

I believe in the more universal diverse understanding of scripture and prophecy with different meanings over time and not one narrow egocentric view anchored in ancient past. Revelation like Creation is an evolving dynamic process that leaves the stoic ancients in the dust and mold of the past.
Wow, that almost sounds egocentric. But, that wouldn't be Baha'i-like, so that can't be right. So tell me, what do you really think?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I suggest you read the interpretation of Adam and Eve by Abdulbaha. He says, it has multiple meaning. Also, in Iqan, Bahaullah confirms, certain historical Traditions of previous Prophets reappear in Qaim again. (Qaim is the Bab and Baha).
The Book of God was sealed till the End of Time, which is the time of Day of Resurrection.
Its reason was, the Prophecies regarding Manifestation of the Bab, and Bahaullah, were written in a Hidden Language. These were secrets of God. They were not supposed to be revealed until They Manifest. Jesus mission was not to reveal the secret meaning of Symbols. Suppose Jesus had said explicitly, He would not rise literally, and He would not return literally, but a Person by name Bahaullah will return instead. How would people be tested then? Most people would probably have difficulty understanding Tests, and God's purpose to test. But let me ask you think deeply about something written in Bible. Did not John the Baptist fulfil the prophecy of return of Elijah according to Jesus? Why do you think when Jesus said He returns, He did not mean return of another one, in the same way John was Elijah? The point is, Scriptures are written with a hidden language, through which God transmits His secrets. But He did not want to reveal its secrets before Manifestations. Have you seen the prophecies of zoroaster, and the year He has said regarding next Manifestation? Or the Hinduism Prophecies? They all use similar symbolic language as the Abrahamic Religions, and as you may or may not find it ironic, the years and durations match with the Manifestations of Bab and Baha. There are to many evidences like these, so, to me, there are too many to call it coincedence.
The "Lamb" in Revelation, to me, does not seem to fit the Bab. Maybe, Baha'u'llah. The Bab, as the forerunner, is supposed to be Elijah? Yes or no? If "yes" then Elijah is not a manifestation. I don't care what Shunyadragon says, that's weird. You guys have somebody out of Islam being the "Beast" in Revelation or something? That's weird too.

The years seems to easily manipulated to come up with any date you want. And "Sealed Books"? All Baha'i do there is give the symbolism... as they do with several other things in the Bible.
 
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