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Is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints 'Christian'.
- Thread starter Sonny
- Start date
The LDS church has a lot of additional material to read, and it discourages me from pursuing the topic. I suppose that were I not so lazy I might actually know what they study. It took a great deal to get me to read the Bible when I was a preteen, lots of prep, singing the books of the Bible, minimum of three sermons a week, hours of listening to people with microphones and lots of moral instruction. Finally I read through the Bible using this method: Read at night until falling asleep. Next night try to remember where I left off and read some more. All the sermons helped and previous learning of individual scripture verses, because as I was reading passages would light up memories. Later on, I could recall most of the Bible whenever someone preached to me. It was a very slack method of reading I must say. I've no idea how the LDS get through all their materials. Electroshocks perhaps.
jaybird
Member
there was a reason Jesus taught on the 2 witnesses.
Sonny
Active Member
Have you ever read Acts 20:28?
"Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood."
Also, I can produce quotes from LDS leaders, big ones from the past, who mentioned the Trinity.
You might do better if you read the Bible more than JS book.
Doesn't mean they aren't, either.
There is good reasoning why Jesus taught these,
"Therefore by the fruits you will know them.
Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, (profess to be Christians) shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he (they) who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and done many wonders (good works) in your name?
And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness." (Mt. 7:20-23)
So, there is a right way and a wrong way to serve God, according to Jesus. Since the Bible contains the words and teachings of Jesus it is the standard of measure we all use to determine if one is or is not a Christian.
Also, Jesus told us how to tell a false prophet/false Christ from the real. He said,
"Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ or There (meaning, if they say they've seen or spoke to Christ) DO NOT BELIEVE IT.
For false Christ's and false prophetswl arise (fulfilled prophecy) and show great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even the elect (Bible-only believing Christians).
See, I have old you beforehand (I'm warning you now what kind of men to look for and run from). Therefore if they say to you, Look, He is in the desert! Do not go out; or Look, He is in the inner rooms! Do not believe it (or, no matter where they say He is or what they say He said, they are lying to you).
For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of man be (or, every eye will see Jesus 'when' He comes again).
It doesn't get any plainer or clearer than that. Jesus goes on to say (next 3 verses) what I wrote above - every eye will see His return (bc there are TVs, satellites and electricity to make them work). Clearly, He saw all that we have today bc Jesus is the only God.
So, was the LDS church founded by a man who said he saw/spoke to Jesus? If so, Jesus tells you to run!
@Sonny, you haven't been here a huge amount of time, so I think at this point it is worth my reminding you of the rules and ethos of RF. RF is based on the ideal of fruitful and open dialogue between people of different faith traditions and of none. Trying to preach your own religion or denomination, and not listening to other people and learning from them, is clearly going against that ethos. It is plainly stated in the RF Rules, which you can access from the top of the page, that preaching your religion, and even coming out and stating the truth of your doctrine, is not OK.
If you want to preach your religion, I am sure you can have opportunities to do so - plenty of evangelical American groups fund missionaries to go out and preach their brand of Christianity in Sub-Saharan Africa, Southeast Asia etc. There are also liberal Christian American groups which volunteer in and pay for hospitals, orphanages and disease prevention programs in these areas of the world.
But RF is not the place for preaching your religion or trying to discredit anybody.
If you want to preach your religion, I am sure you can have opportunities to do so - plenty of evangelical American groups fund missionaries to go out and preach their brand of Christianity in Sub-Saharan Africa, Southeast Asia etc. There are also liberal Christian American groups which volunteer in and pay for hospitals, orphanages and disease prevention programs in these areas of the world.
But RF is not the place for preaching your religion or trying to discredit anybody.
Sonny
Active Member
This is where People like me come in. Not only will I tell you what the LDS taught, printed and published but I will tell you where YOU can read it context for yourself. You will know I am not lying when references are given. The LDS want you to either take their word on it or offer excuses and justifications, some generations later, so you won't believe what their leaders, led by God, taught. The difference is, my researched facts or their taught feelings (Moroni 10:4, 5).
The relevant question is:-
Can we consistently keep Mormons in Christianity while keeping Muslims out of Christianity?
I have a way to do so! Ask them what their religion is.
Sonny
Active Member
Frankly, the two are so similar it would be hard deciding which to keep out.
Did any of you know that the very first Terrorist Act to occur on American soil against innocent Americans was on 911...of 1857? The Mormon church members, if not the church itself (which I believe based on my research- wanna know what I mean? Ask me), murdered in cold blood over 120 innocent Americans who were moving thru southern Utah, near St. George (where we once lived.) I have photos of the crime scene and of the Memorial that was set up for them.
The LDS, who later blamed the Indians (typical- the LDS once blamed people in the mid-west for burning their own homes in the middle of winter just so they could blame the LDS for it. Right. Apparently, no one considered the fact that some of these homes/property were 10-20 miles from town. They would have froze to death trying to get to town so how would anyone know it happened? No settler was that stupid. The LDS did it, alright) have never taken responsibility for all those deaths. One group of 29 souls are buried in a box about 15x15x don't know depth. The LDS have never admitted to 'their role' in murdering them either. But, Indians did not shoot, stab and hack people to death then strip them naked and stack them in two piles (men, women, children- 9 years old and up. Wonder why 9? Bc 8 is the age of accountability- 9 and up were accountable...and dead) and leave them there for the wild animals to eat. Indians weren't that savage.
Sonny
Active Member
Fact is, no one asked you to take part if you don't like the Thread. Go to one more fitting to you. You won't be missed.
Are they (LDS) Christian? From previous posts of mine you know that I am not in the habit of choosing who is or is not a Christian. That is a personal thing between an individual and God. Not for me or any one else to make that judgment. That being said I will offer this opinion for the sake of the OP. By definition I personally recognize the LDS Church as a Christian denomination as they believe in and follow the teachings of Christ. Do their beliefs match up with say a Baptist or Lutheran (just for example sake)? Some , but not entirely. I personally believe that all the denominations fail in many areas, which is why I make no judgment on who gets to be a Christian. As far as the definition of Christian ,I go no further than John, 3:16. Past that , we must each do as the Bible says and "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling." We are also told to "examine ourselves that we be worthy." OK, I'm finished now.
Sonny
Active Member
Actually, that is not true. We have prophecies- a couple thousand of them- to go by as well. Compare which religion has fulfilled ones and which has (even) one missed prophecy and you will know which is which.
Btw, was America destroyed back in the mid-to-late 1800s? If not, then we know of one church whose founder issued 2 prophecies of total destruction on America that never came true. But those aren't the only two by far and away.
This is not what I meant at all. I was discussing theological boundaries between various religions.
As a thread starter, how can you possibly think of having a balanced discussion if you have such a negative attitude towards Mormons? And how did the Puritan and Protestant America act towards native Indians? How did they behave towards African slaves? There is plenty of blood in the ledger of all religions. If you are planning to have a discussion based on tenets of the religion, I am in, otherwise I will not comment further.
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Why so serious, Batman?
buddhist
Well-Known Member
How do prophecies prove anything?
Sonny
Active Member
If you were to read the New Testament (NT) you'd see he did. They called it the New Covenant in His blood (or akin to that). That is why He came- to save souls through His blood (grace) by our faith. Christians do not follow those who do what Jesus said don't do, like in Mt. 7 & 24.
Deciding what Christianity is, is the easy part. Convincing those who are not His, but who think they are, is a lot more difficult. All any of us can do is provide clear and fact-based evidence that such and such is not Christian and hope they see it, too. That is what this Thread is about, at least for two churches (Christian, LDS)
Sonny
Active Member
Wasn't serious, just replying in kind. I can't understand why someone would do something if they don't want to do it. That's all. noi See,
You can decide for yourself very easily. Someone else can decide for themselves too, but there's no reason to assume the two of you would agree.
Also, do take note that the continued preaching and the painting of Latter-Day Saints as bloodthirsty etc is going to get you unwelcome on RF very quickly. Please do take note. More people on RF are great to have, we need a diversity of voices, but people need to be polite and respectful.
