Why does God hide himself?

[loverofhumanity]

The lawgiver or nature?

If a lawgiver is necessary to create laws, then the lawgiver is lawless. Or he has laws, but then they must've been created by a higher lawgiver, which in turn would be lawless. But if that higher lawgiver has laws, then he must've gotten them from an even higher lawgiver, ad infinitum...

Or the simple answer is that laws are eternal, in themselves, independent of a lawgiver.

It's impossible for one to exist without the other in similar fashion to a painting without there having to been a painter.

 

[loverofhumanity]

They are things brought about by the physical brain that are demonstrably useful. They also don't make ridiculous claims.

They are still intangible. Mind, thought.

 

[Cephus]

They are still intangible. Mind, thought.

Intangible but demonstrable. Funny how you keep dancing around that.

 

[Bird123]

So, God must have a reason for hiding himself and hiding the truth. A lot will say, the truth isn't hidden, just read the Bible and the Koran. I've read them both, and the truth is hidden. Both books contain verses that say the opposite of what other verses say, leading people to opposite conclusions. Much of the Bible is hyperbole, poetry, parable, allegory, and symbolic, leading to God only knows how many conflicting interpretations. It simply isn't clear. The Koran severely contradicts itself. I'd be happy to provide a list of verses from the Koran that justify ISIS atrocities.

Even if the Bible and Koran contained clear instruction that didn't contradict itself, that still isn't enough. Everyone is different. Many of us need more than a book. We need clear instruction on what to do personally with our lives.

If God would just leave us clear messages every now and then, imagine how much good it would do. Imagine if every heretic heard the voice of God correcting them and telling them their errors. There wouldn't be so much division and confusion.

How many atheists would still be atheist if God was speaking clear messages to them and telling them what to do with their lives? Even if God just left a message in the sky once every 10 years, do you think even 1% of the world's population would still be atheist? Clearly God wants there to be Atheists.

I pray every day that God would tell me what to do with my time and my life because I simply don't know. I'd like to be doing with my time, what he/she wants me to do with my time. No matter how much I pray for those instructions, I don't get them. How is that benefiting me for God to refuse to give those instructions? If it does no good, and in fact does harm to the world, why does God do it?

What good does God hiding himself/herself do our world? If it doesn't do any good, then why does he/she do it?

This is the way I see it. All holy books are written by mankind. Keep that in mind when reading any of them. Sure there is goodness in all of them, however mankind's flaws and weaknesses are also shown in them.

In order to understand anyone, their actions will tell much about them. Let's look at An action of God. God does not simply give us knowledge, we must discover it. This is not just in religion but in everything. God hides nothing. All the secrets of the universe stare us in the face. How long did it take mankind to learn how to fly when birds and insects were flying before our eyes? Nothing was hidden. Perhaps, it's all a test of intelligence.

Why doesn't God speak to everyone? This is how I see it. Life is the education of God's children. Free choice is an important factor in learning. If we are not free to choose, we will just choose the opposite as soon as we are free just to discover why we were not free to make that choice. In short, God does not want to intimidate your free choices.

God is very very smart. God is working on multiple levels with multiple views. A real conversation with God would leave most people confused. Mankind carries such a narrow view. For those who could handle some of it,it might take weeks to understand all that was said in just a few minutes,and much would never be understood.

So what is a person to do in life? The way I see it is: one should be who they must. It's a part of the plan. Stop walking on eggshells worrying about every choice. God will return our actions to teach us what they really mean. Our choices will show God and the world what we need to learn. In this way, we will choose our lessons.

Religions and mankind make God out to be like them: Ruling, Controlling,Judging, Condemning, Manipulating, intimidating,full of Wrath and Anger when they don't get their way. The way I see it is that God is nothing like that at all. God is a Teacher guiding all His children to Greatness, Wisdom, and High Intelligence. On this road, it will take some bad choices to understand it all. After many many lifetimes, we will come to understand that there really is only one answer. We will become just like God and freely choose to Love Unconditionally.

In conclusion, it has never ever been about good and evil. It is about Education and Understanding.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Intangible but demonstrable. Funny how you keep dancing around that.

My point is that there are many things that are unrecognisable by the senses but do exist. God is one. We know God by His Signs.

 

[interminable]

LOL!

Sorry. I understand why some got a bit confused by that post.

Well, I should have started with:

If infinites are impossible, then we would have this syllogism:
p1) infinte impossible
p2) God is infinte
c) God is impossible.

Which would be a proof against God instead of a proof for God, and therefore to say that infinite is impossible to prove God is a bad argument. Basically, I shorthanded my response a bit too much.

So I'm not saying infinite doesn't exist. I'm saying that infinite must exist, but it doesn't prove God. It only proves infinites.

Oh!
So please tell me can u imagine 2 infinite existents or not?

 

[interminable]

You assume, you cannot prove. You cannot provide evidence. You cannot get from point A to point B without faith and baseless assumption. Stop assuming. Start proving.

What do u mean by evidence here??
U want me to bring some examples

When something is impossible who can bring example for it????
Is it rational???

Anyway
Imagine 2 runners. First has decided not to run until the second runs. And the second one has decided not to run when the first runs. A question

When do they begin to run?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I've attempted suicide once. I laid down in front of an oncoming city train. The train conductor stopped the train and had me arrested. I'm currently in a mental health facility for it.

*hugs* More of a pill person, myself, but I was a kid, so in kid logic, since I had seen people commit suicide in shows and movies by taking an entire bottle of pills, I thought I would die, but I lacked the medical knowledge to know it kinda depended on WHAT you took, not just that you took them. Even now, as a Kill Bill fan, I have a couple of replica swords that I must give to other family members "to reduce clutter" sometimes. I don't tell them I want to impale myself on them....

I like certainty, certainty is truth.

Certainty is certainty. People can be certainly wrong as well.

Clear answers to my questions about God's will so that I can do Gods will...he has a plan. I want to cooperate with his plan and feel I'm failing, largely because I'm confused about what He is asking me to do

It could be as simple as to work through your stuff. I mean, if you're in a facility ... well, that doesn't say much. Anyway, instead of something grandiose, maybe your purpose at the moment is just to give it time to heal? Not everyone's purpose is worthy to make a movie franchise out of, you know? Sometimes people like you and me are just the backstage crew, working quietly to make sure everything runs right.

God's Will is clear and His Plan is clear.

For YOU. For POPE, not so much, or he wouldn't be confused, right?

There is none like that unless its a breaking of a treaty, persecution and they call for rescue etc. None. If you have read the Quran from cover to cover you will see this.

Even when put in proper contexts, though, overkill is still overkill. Torture and murder are the signs of the intellectually lazy, for the most part. They just shouldn't be necessary if we're half as awesome as we like to think we are.

Then why do I feel 100% convinced that God wants me to preach against the Koran?

Given you criticize the bible as well, I take it people like us are here, if you're still looking for purpose, to bring it up in a society (world?) less and less favorable to being honest about what is going on.

You are channeling Satan (an angel) instead of the good.

I agree, but not in the insulting way you meant: Satan is never shown to lie about anything in scenes where he appears. People call him a liar, but he only is more like a mirror, bringing up the darkness in your soul you try to keep secret. He is a spiritual blackmailer, to be sure, but he tells the truth. The lies are what we tell ourselves to convince us we are more moral than we are. The only way to shut up Satan is to be at peace with what we are so he has nothing to threaten us with.

It's impossible for one to exist without the other in similar fashion to a painting without there having to been a painter.

"Modern" paintings can include nothing but a blank canvas and the "painter" will still get called "painter" even though the "painter" didn't paint anything.

 

[Cephus]

My point is that there are many things that are unrecognisable by the senses but do exist. God is one. We know God by His Signs.

No, you don't because you haven't demonstrated how you know anything about God, including God's existence. Repeating the same ridiculous nonsense doesn't stop it from being nonsense.

 

[Cephus]

What do u mean by evidence here??
U want me to bring some examples

When something is impossible who can bring example for it????
Is it rational???

Anyway
Imagine 2 runners. First has decided not to run until the second runs. And the second one has decided not to run when the first runs. A question

When do they begin to run?

If something is impossible, then it is impossible and shouldn't be believed. You are choosing to believe something for which you have no objective evidence, then you claim that you believe it for good reasons.

You do not.

 

[james bond]

Check the story again. Templeton did not go and study evolution, he went to a seminary to study scripture. It has been said that the quickest and most certain way for a Christian to become an Atheist if for them to study the bible. I don't know if that is true or not, but the anecdotical evidence in the video you posted seems to support that idea.

What you say just well may have been, but my supposition is he was influenced by evolution. We have that with old Earth Christians who challenge the young Earth Christians just the same. There are church leaders who believe that. We have the liberal Pope Francis of the Roman Catholics who admits to reading liberal MSM like CNN or smaller ones like HuffPo. What do you have that supports your statement?

I've never read Templeton's book, and he's a bit before my time like Billy Graham so I do not know what he said. It wasn't revealed (pun intended) in the Ben's video.

 

[james bond]

How do you know? How did you test your experience objectively to find out? I'm sure we'd all like to know.

I don't think there is any way that I can convince you. One has to have faith and they'll understand.

 

[james bond]

*hugs* More of a pill person, myself, but I was a kid, so in kid logic, since I had seen people commit suicide in shows and movies by taking an entire bottle of pills, I thought I would die, but I lacked the medical knowledge to know it kinda depended on WHAT you took, not just that you took them. Even now, as a Kill Bill fan, I have a couple of replica swords that I must give to other family members "to reduce clutter" sometimes. I don't tell them I want to impale myself on them....


Certainty is certainty. People can be certainly wrong as well.


It could be as simple as to work through your stuff. I mean, if you're in a facility ... well, that doesn't say much. Anyway, instead of something grandiose, maybe your purpose at the moment is just to give it time to heal? Not everyone's purpose is worthy to make a movie franchise out of, you know? Sometimes people like you and me are just the backstage crew, working quietly to make sure everything runs right.


For YOU. For POPE, not so much, or he wouldn't be confused, right?


Even when put in proper contexts, though, overkill is still overkill. Torture and murder are the signs of the intellectually lazy, for the most part. They just shouldn't be necessary if we're half as awesome as we like to think we are.

Given you criticize the bible as well, I take it people like us are here, if you're still looking for purpose, to bring it up in a society (world?) less and less favorable to being honest about what is going on.


I agree, but not in the insulting way you meant: Satan is never shown to lie about anything in scenes where he appears. People call him a liar, but he only is more like a mirror, bringing up the darkness in your soul you try to keep secret. He is a spiritual blackmailer, to be sure, but he tells the truth. The lies are what we tell ourselves to convince us we are more moral than we are. The only way to shut up Satan is to be at peace with what we are so he has nothing to threaten us with.


"Modern" paintings can include nothing but a blank canvas and the "painter" will still get called "painter" even though the "painter" didn't paint anything.

>>I agree, but not in the insulting way you meant: Satan is never shown to lie about anything in scenes where he appears. People call him a liar, but he only is more like a mirror, bringing up the darkness in your soul you try to keep secret. He is a spiritual blackmailer, to be sure, but he tells the truth. The lies are what we tell ourselves to convince us we are more moral than we are. The only way to shut up Satan is to be at peace with what we are so he has nothing to threaten us with.<<

I disagree I was insulting to PopeADope. From what I've read about Satan in the Bible and religious articles, I can't remember reading that he was a liar so what you say is a revelation. While I was growing up, there were stories told me and tv and movies that Satan would grant us our wishes such as winning the lottery (greed), or having power (becoming a political leader) or being famous (becoming an actor). One had to agree to sell our souls to do this. We know these "fables or myths" are a lie. See how tricky he is. So you're right. Yet, he does mislead using temptation. The key point with him is to get rid of him before reaching God. Tell him to get lost.

The darkness in our souls is what I would call original sin. We can't get rid of it as temptation could have us choose evil or not good at any moment in our lives. I have to disagree that we won't be threatened as you state when we have free will.

 

[Cephus]

I don't think there is any way that I can convince you. One has to have faith and they'll understand.

Of course not, you have no evidence. Your faith is like the emperor's new clothes, it simply doesn't exist. Faith is just believing something that you have no good reason to think is so, but it makes you feel good so you'd rather believe nonsense than accept reality.

Too bad you don't understand how ridiculous that is.

 

[Ouroboros]

Oh!
So please tell me can u imagine 2 infinite existents or not?

I just answered you that I do.

But that's not the point. The point here is that existence of infinite does not imply existence of God.

 

[allfoak]

What good does God hiding himself/herself do our world? If it doesn't do any good, then why does he/she do it?

God doesn't hide.
In fact, that is not even possible.
That is like saying we are able to hide who we are from our children.
Not possible, they become who we are.

 

[Spiderman]

Thank you for the hugs and kind words @Kelly of the Phoenix.

 

[james bond]

Of course not, you have no evidence. Your faith is like the emperor's new clothes, it simply doesn't exist. Faith is just believing something that you have no good reason to think is so, but it makes you feel good so you'd rather believe nonsense than accept reality.

Too bad you don't understand how ridiculous that is.

Ridiculous? I think not. It's very serious. The evidence is presented to you after you die.

 

[Cephus]

Ridiculous? I think not. It's very serious. The evidence is presented to you after you die.

Where, conveniently enough, nobody can come back and tell us that it's a load of nonsense.

 

[james bond]

Where, conveniently enough, nobody can come back and tell us that it's a load of nonsense.

Why do you say it's nonsense? What evidence do you have to say it isn't? What's ridiculous is atheists claim they do not have evidence of God not existing and yet that's what they believe. That's a different kind of faith if you ask me. Yet, the video states if you sincerely ask God to do so, He will. That's faith that works.

As for your nonsense statement, people have had near-death experiences and they told a lot as well as the neurologists explanations on what occurred. Once you get past the point of no return, God has stated that we will never know what happens. That was one of the things He said He would keep to himself.