Where are Trump's financial data and tax returns?

[suncowiam]

It's already very doubtful he has 10 billion dollars, and even less likely he's worth his claim of "in excess of 10 billion." A lot of certified/verified billionaires don't even think Trump himself is a billionaire. He insisted Obama show his birth certificate....why should we not put equal pressure on Trump to show his tax record and back up his claims. Or could it be that he is afraid of the world finding out those speculating he is in debt are correct?

Recall you suggested he's not a good business person... Which I don't agree with. But I think you'll agree with me when I suggest he's a great liar. So yes, he's not worth 10 billion dollars unless he can prove it with any type of records including tax returns.

Technicality...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Recall you suggested he's not a good business person.

I stated that the longer this campaign goes on, the more I doubt it, because he does not come off as someone who can lead anything to success. How could it be possible for him to be in the game this long, act like he has been, and not be destroyed by himself or someone manipulating him?

 

[Lighthouse]

Evidence? If he does business like he does politics, there is just no way he's the brains of the operation.

Any successful business relies heavily on the people that work for the business as a team.

I suppose the guy could have simply bought property, had stuff built, put his name on it, and assigned/hired everyone else to make it successful while doing nothing hinself outside of the start. That still correlates to a successful business and making him a lot of money. I'd imagine many do things that way and many are more hands on. I don't know the guys life.

I don't think he is as wealthy as he claims to be. I don't know. I can only speculate. I also don't believe he'll ever release his tax returns for that very reason. I don't think he cares about the lack of potential taxes paid, I think he cares more about his true net worth not being revealed. Whether it's 100 million, 3 billion, or 10 billion it is success(financially.) Politically, he has a shot at becoming US president. I'd say that is successful regardless of how his mental faculty is perceived.

In an old suit was a claim that Trump’s valuation of himself and his empire fluctuates based on his own “feelings." I think this is more reasonable but I cannot know this.

He still has many successful businesses that generate good revenue, the better question is on just how much he's worth.

To be honest, I don't think many people care about his taxes or how much he's worth.

 

[Lighthouse]

I stated that the longer this campaign goes on, the more I doubt it, because he does not come off as someone who can lead anything to success. How could it be possible for him to be in the game this long, act like he has been, and not be destroyed by himself or someone manipulating him?

He knows how to attract people. Not all people, but many people. Many like the message he brings, just not the messenger so much. Many think the government is a joke and fraud anyway, so another joker and fraudster would fit right in. Many don't like Hillary. Many like the element of suspense and the thrill of the unknown. Many like the entertainment behind it all. Many think inexperience and someone radical can make their lives better. For many people, the government and its policies have harmed them individually. Many like to just go along with the party. I'm sure many go to his events just to have fun and get a good laugh. Many are intelligent people, many are good people, many are republican minded principle believers. He appeals to pretty much every walk, even the bigots and racists who are citizens. He appeals to many who don't find offense or sensitivity to his words. Many like the against all odds underdog. Many just tag along with their friends who are voting for him. Many who aren't even following what's going on will still vote for him. Many like reality television. Many like drama. Many like his temper because they have a temper. Many like his policies.
Like Michael Moore said, the entire kitchen has been thrown at this guy and he's been unstoppable so far. Mind-blowing, I know. It's America.
I talk politics to a lot of people of all walks and have heard a variety of reasons why they are voting for him. Some people don't even have a reason, they just simply are. I asked a woman I work with the other day and she said Trumps a d-bag but she's voting for him.

 

[Lighthouse]

I stated that the longer this campaign goes on, the more I doubt it, because he does not come off as someone who can lead anything to success. How could it be possible for him to be in the game this long, act like he has been, and not be destroyed by himself or someone manipulating him?

Oh, don't kid yourself. You wish you could have just 5 min with Donald and get a taste of Trumpenomics. . You may or may not find yourself bankrupt swiftly.

 

[metis]

What's the revelence with personal tax returns and running the country anyways?

Do we know the tax returns of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abe Lincoln?

Just a reminder that it was Trump himself who brought this on himself when he bragged about how wealthy he is and how much he supposedly contributed to charity. For him, it should be "put up or shut up" time, but it's impossible to expect Trump to do the latter.

 

[suncowiam]

I stated that the longer this campaign goes on, the more I doubt it, because he does not come off as someone who can lead anything to success. How could it be possible for him to be in the game this long, act like he has been, and not be destroyed by himself or someone manipulating him?

Someone has to lose. He's losing to a better politician with more experience. How many times has Clinton lost to get to this point? Clinton's lucky that Trump wiped the GOP so, honestly, we should be thanking Trump for his contribution.

It's a growth. I wouldn't equate a political campaign with business. The final goals are much different. He's just not that good as a politician. I would trust him with my finances any day.

[Edited] Concerning financial advising... It's not about telling people what to do with their money. It's about identifying the risks what investments would endure. That I would trust Trump in providing and it would be my choice to follow or not. Nobody gets all their investment decisions right but the successful ones get it right most of the time.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Someone has to lose. He's losing to a better politician with more experience. How many times has Clinton lost to get to this point? Clinton's lucky that Trump wiped the GOP so, honestly, we should be thanking Trump for his contribution.

I'm not talking about politics. I'm asking how can someone who acts like a total ******* really be good at business? Seriously, "whining until I get what I want" is the strategy of a weakling with no serious drive to win. If that is how he does business, I just don't see how it's possible for him to be the one doing the major work and decision making. How would it ever be possible for him to walk into a room filled with stockholders and executives without being eaten up and lead off a cliff? There has got to be more going on than we know, because getting insulted and offended over the slightest things and getting into Twitter wars at 4 in the morning are not characteristics of a winning, leaderly, or strong personality.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

He's just not that good as a politician. I would trust him with my finances any day.

[Edited] Concerning financial advising... It's not about telling people what to do with their money. It's about identifying the risks what investments would endure. That I would trust Trump in providing and it would be my choice to follow or not. Nobody gets all their investment decisions right but the successful ones get it right most of the time.

The thing is, we don't know how much of this he's doing on his own. We do know he claims he's smart for not paying taxes even though the smart one was his tax attorney doing all the work to get him out of paying taxes. We also know his personality from what we have seen on the campaign would make him a liability in the business world, not an asset.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh, don't kid yourself. You wish you could have just 5 min with Donald and get a taste of Trumpenomics. . You may or may not find yourself bankrupt swiftly.

Actually, I wish to have not a single second with Trump, and I've never been close to bankruptcy. It's a serious question: How can he really be that good at business? He has failed to uphold tradition of presidential candidates releasing their tax forms, and he does not have a personality that says leader, winner, businesslike, or professional.

 

[idav]

If his campaign is any indication, he has no business skills. We already learned he had a good tax lawyer contribute to a huge part of his wealth. How many other people are making Trump rich, and how much is Trump really making himself rich? There's just no way he can do business like he does his campaign and be taken seriously.

Its interesting you say this. I was talking to people yesterday where I tried to make the argument for Trumps business savviness and they had the same reaction, really skeptical of what Trump really did himself. Not like these people don't know trumps a billionaire but because of the shadow tactics we can't really know how "successful" he has really been. From my own readings, big part is manipulations of business assets against stocks, on top of bankrupting businesses without letting it touch personal assets. But again, I tried to argue it and the folks I was talking to were more than skeptical.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Actually, I wish to have not a single second with Trump, and I've never been close to bankruptcy. It's a serious question: How can he really be that good at business? He has failed to uphold tradition of presidential candidates releasing their tax forms, and he does not have a personality that says leader, winner, businesslike, or professional.

What tradition?

No one answered as to the tax returns of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Abraham Lincoln.

 

[columbus]

What tradition?

No one answered as to the tax returns of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Abraham Lincoln.

Are you really this dense?
This is not the 19th century. Back then, rich folks didn't even pretend to pay income taxes.
Tom

 

[suncowiam]

I'm not talking about politics. I'm asking how can someone who acts like a total ******* really be good at business? Seriously, "whining until I get what I want" is the strategy of a weakling with no serious drive to win. If that is how he does business, I just don't see how it's possible for him to be the one doing the major work and decision making. How would it ever be possible for him to walk into a room filled with stockholders and executives without being eaten up and lead off a cliff? There has got to be more going on than we know, because getting insulted and offended over the slightest things and getting into Twitter wars at 4 in the morning are not characteristics of a winning, leaderly, or strong personality.

The thing is, we don't know how much of this he's doing on his own. We do know he claims he's smart for not paying taxes even though the smart one was his tax attorney doing all the work to get him out of paying taxes. We also know his personality from what we have seen on the campaign would make him a liability in the business world, not an asset.

Business isn't some popularity contest. Most of the time, it does take some ahole to make the unpopular decisions to continue and succeed a business. Not sure what else to add there.

Good management is about hiring good managers. That's one of the core rule of management is knowing who and how to hire. Trump is the top of the pyramid in his businesses. He gets most of the credit.

Before the campaign, his brand was more popular. During the campaign and now, his brand is pretty tarnished, but I'm sure he knew that going into the campaign that it could risk his business. If all he wanted to do was make money, I'm sure he could be making much more money by only focusing on business. In general, politics and business just does not mix. Many companies simply do not give political stances for risk of losing business. So your argument can be for anyone with a business that enters politics.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Are you really this dense?
This is not the 19th century. Back then, rich folks didn't even pretend to pay income taxes.
Tom

Finally ! *Grin*


Tradition my ***.

Tax returns have nothing to do with picking a president.

 

[columbus]

Finally ! *Grin*


Tradition my ***.

Tax returns have nothing to do with picking a president.

It has been a tradition for several decades now, though.
It is particularly important in the case of Trump who has no other record to run on. Reality TV host doesn't cut it.
He claims to be a brilliant businessman and huge charitable giver. He could back up that claim with financial transparency. But he won't do, despite what it's costing him in the polling. He lies about why he won't.

I see this as sufficient reason to stop supporting him, myself. But not everyone does. Enough people buy his brand of bigoted lies and feel good demagoguery to propel him to the top of the election heap.

At least, enough Republicans.
Tom

 

[Lighthouse]

Actually, I wish to have not a single second with Trump, and I've never been close to bankruptcy. It's a serious question: How can he really be that good at business? He has failed to uphold tradition of presidential candidates releasing their tax forms, and he does not have a personality that says leader, winner, businesslike, or professional.

I know, was just kidding .

Tradition is tradition and has only been so for like 50 years I believe. Also isn't a requirement. Tax return's don't have much relevance to me per say, I'd have to imagine a lot of stuff is kept off the books by any candidate. I do see the intrigue in it though, man is a curious being. How much taxes one has paid and/or avoided, and ones net worth has no relevance on how I personally measure "success." I understand their relevance to others though and I don't fault them. If someone says they'll do something after "so and so" it'd probably be best that they did. At the end of the day, it's not a necessity. Smart is also putting out the least amount as possible for judgement, scrutiny, and magnification.

Depends on how one subjectively views "winning." For me, a losing mentality is one who views themselves as a loser, eats sleeps and dwells on it rather than finding the win and positivity in the loss. Also depends on how one views "leadership," "businesslike," "professional" qualities. What you don't see in him, others may see. What I don't see in him, others may see. What anyone sees or doesn't see in him, could be inaccurate. To him, Id guess it's already a win for him. He has millions of people talking about him, both supporters and non-supporters. His message has already been made. While it seems redundant, it still is a reasonable message that will linger. Public trust and perception of the government and ones in power keeps getting lower and lower.

I don't know what he does or his ways with business and the media won't paint an accurate picture of anyone. I could guess he's a tough and stern negotiater, won't get ripped off but it would be a guess. I could also guess that business is ugly, money dictates a lot, and tough decisions and uneasy decisions are always made. Many business owners will be as cost-effective as possible, and this comes with exploiting the system in place. If he has gotten away with what he does, I'd say the system is flawed.
Every human has a side to them no one else knows or can perceive accurately. The human switch. The "it" factor.

I guess it comes down to Donald saying he doesn't work for Donald anymore, he works for the people now... and his supporter's faith/confidence in those words.

 

[Lighthouse]

It has been a tradition for several decades now, though.
It is particularly important in the case of Trump who has no other record to run on. Reality TV host doesn't cut it.
He claims to be a brilliant businessman and huge charitable giver. He could back up that claim with financial transparency. But he won't do, despite what it's costing him in the polling. He lies about why he won't.

I see this as sufficient reason to stop supporting him, myself. But not everyone does. Enough people buy his brand of bigoted lies and feel good demagoguery to propel him to the top of the election heap.

At least, enough Republicans.
Tom

It has also been a tradition for thousands of years that marriage has been between man and a woman. People change and evolve. Tradition is just tradition.
He's even donated to the Clinton Foundation.
For many, how wealthy someone is doesn't dictate their opinion on them.
If lack of transparency were sufficient to not vote for someone, every candidate would be excluded. Tax returns are a dense reason, at least in my opinion. If Hillary didn't release hers, I don't be saying the same thing. I respect you Tom and could see you being a better president than either of the two while not seeing your tax returns or without having any experience.

 

[Acim]

It should matter. For all the people who think Clintons are doing nefarious things, their income is released for all to see. We can't know anything of Trumps dealings which is shady to say the least.

Yeah, I wish there was a way to investigate Trump's past and anything negative he might have done. Unfortunately that's just not possible until we see his tax returns.

Said no one. Ever.

 

[columbus]

Yeah, I wish there was a way to investigate Trump's past and anything negative he might have done. Unfortunately that's just not possible until we see his tax returns.

Said no one. Ever.

Lots of people say this. Me for one.

Nobody in the RW media say it. It doesn't suit their narrative. But that doesn't mean nobody says it. It means you don't hear it.
Tom