I suppose you have never had a broken bone. It hurts like hell! Are we to believe that no one of the human race would have ever broken a bone if Adam had not eaten Eve's fruit?
Last edited:
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
How God is not loving
- Thread starter The Transcended Omniverse
- Start date
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
He did destroy the rebels, it was called the flood!
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
If an "innocent" person makes a "foolish" choice, do they remain innocent?
The Transcended Omniverse
Well-Known Member
I also see life as being no different than a taste test. A piece of food in front of a judge. You are the judge and life is the piece of food. If this piece of food tastes great (it is a very pleasing taste), then you would cherish it and keep on eating that food.
But if it tastes repulsive (is a very unpleasant taste), then you would judge that food as a piece of crap and throw it away. So this also applies to you and your life. If life is miserable for you and consists of much hardship, then just throw it away since it is a life that is very displeasing for you. Just throw yourself away. Take yourself out of such a life.
But if life is very pleasing for you and brings you much joy and happiness instead, then cherish that life and live it for all it is worth.
But if it tastes repulsive (is a very unpleasant taste), then you would judge that food as a piece of crap and throw it away. So this also applies to you and your life. If life is miserable for you and consists of much hardship, then just throw it away since it is a life that is very displeasing for you. Just throw yourself away. Take yourself out of such a life.
But if life is very pleasing for you and brings you much joy and happiness instead, then cherish that life and live it for all it is worth.
Not really, when food tastes bad we add salt or sugar, which has to be done for most foods in the first place. Which is why salt was like gold back in the day. People don't generally just choose not to eat. People live with what they got, it isn't until something is introduced that we get used to more luxurious lifestyles, we get used to it then feel like it should always be so. That does not depreciate the value that a simple life brings, monks are perfectly happy for example, probably more so than many rich folks. Humans have a tendency to never be content and therefore never happy wanting more and more but this is not ideal. In other words, more doesn't equal happiness, although our tendencies like to make us think some sort of satisfaction will eventually be reached. Satisfaction is never really reached without first being content.
Skwim
Veteran Member
I may have misread you when you said, "sorrow is the result of our own misdeeds ." Taking "our own" to mean each person is responsible for their particular sorrows, instead of reading it as people in general, not god, are responsible for whatever sorrow befalls them. However, a person can't be blamed for sorrow resulting from such things as accidents for which they had no part in creating, or natural disasters. In any case, it can be reasonably inferred that god has indeed created sorrow. Consider:
Leviticus 25:44-46
44 “About your men and women slaves: You may get men and women slaves from the other nations around you. 45 Also, you may get children as slaves if they come from the families of the foreigners living in your land. These child slaves will belong to you. 46 You may even pass these foreign slaves on to your children after you die so that they will belong to them. They will be your slaves forever. You may make slaves of these foreigners. But you must not be a cruel master over your own brothers, the Israelites.
44 “About your men and women slaves: You may get men and women slaves from the other nations around you. 45 Also, you may get children as slaves if they come from the families of the foreigners living in your land. These child slaves will belong to you. 46 You may even pass these foreign slaves on to your children after you die so that they will belong to them. They will be your slaves forever. You may make slaves of these foreigners. But you must not be a cruel master over your own brothers, the Israelites.
.
Gyrannon
Agnostic Necromancer
why he didn't.... actually he did. Genesis 6:9-9:17
Basically, the Devil told God to do this & that and God did it. They are suppose to be enemies. God is suppose to be Pure Good & the Devil Pure Evil.
Its like a Ruthless Cartel man convincing a Good Cop to hand over a Witness just to test if the Witness still trusts Cops after the betrayal.
God indulged the Devil by playing his game. Even though the Devil lost, he still got God to do things for him.
Old Saying: When you dance with the Devil, you don't change him, Devil changes you.
Then why bother to have the Apostles do it then? And the instructions are not clear as some of the verses in the bible contradict & conflict with each other.
The younger you are, the less likely you'll remember it.
Spinal Surgery. Dangerous surgery can kill the patient. People still do it cause they don't want to suffer their affliction/defect any longer.
If it was a certainty that my kid would have to suffer anymore & would be better off without it, then yes I would.
And also, God created Hell. That is a thousand times worse than anything we could ever experience. He could have snapped his fingers & that defect would be gone. Sure we'd lose our imperfections that make us who we are, but lose that to not go to a realm of eternal torture? I'd say its damn ****ing worth it!
meghanwaterlillies
Well-Known Member
talk to the people that think we are animals and sell sins they are the ********; bring in even the conflict of death. (guess what you could love them even) Now I gotta stand in the gap again? ugh. WE didn't invent death they did or hell they did something with that knowledge says to them inspire it. Well I do believe that in perfect love there is no fear, and even Maybe God is just higher then that total none of the things I said; if your reading job; maybe somewhere you dealt with a human that thought he was more human than the human and probably. Your their animal. I hope satan actually lives as a human and suffers at the end of the inspiration but then again they will say that's my creative mind and made it that way; so I don't think so I don't want that lol. Well an act of the so called builders that reject the corner stone (they don't believe in Jesus neither that God feels or cares and if they do or play around with that they try to playing grace "magic" tricks)creative angry energy with to much power could handle the "knowledge of good and evil" so they seek ways too do so which means they already think they are angels/demons special people.. This why I don't want the that. (I know we are human and I don't like evolution which starts with evil. That is the knowledge of good and evil where it starts it starts with finding a way to make another feel less than human. (at least I learned that; no hate or attack back even though my logic says yes.( And being that it's more than that more then an animal or or a magic trick that reads everything you post or do) I know specifically what it is. Really do. How could you front love then? (oh but he's human so just hope then they get it). LOL I believe God is perfect but they only don't just belief that so to keep us as animals they keep trying to integrate the knowledge of good and evil. All well would you like a thought? People are ****ing doing it mostly. It's those that don't that do. This is why I hate posting online it's not anything like a just said 
.
.
Medicine tastes bad. Good food tastes bad too. I got cancer and a good friend of mine gave me a squash that looks like a cucumber. It doesn't taste like a cucumber. It is very hard to eat, but I ate it. So far as I know I am cancer free now.
meghanwaterlillies
Well-Known Member
Question is that true?Medicine tastes bad. Good food tastes bad too. I got cancer and a good friend of mine gave me a squash that looks like a cucumber. It doesn't taste like a cucumber. It is very hard to eat, but I ate it. So far as I know I am cancer free now.
Is what true? The cucumber did not heal my cancer. I had a breast removed and had chemo-therapy. But the vegetable might have helped my immune system. I don't know. All I know is that the cancer has not come back. It might be afraid of that AWFUL taste. I do not know why people might buy them except for medicine.
The flood didn't do anything but reset humanity back to a manageable situation. It didn't eliminate evil or sin. The intervention of the Nephilim and their wicked fathers necessitated the need for drastic action. They had taken mankind into that level of wickedness too soon, but also gave Jesus an illustrative lesson about what we can expect at the end of the present system of things...."just like the days of Noah", he said (Matthew 24:37-39)...so what are we seeing in the world right now? Aren't we there again?
God didn't do anything but permit a test. The devil carried out his own dirty work.
When you 'play a game' at this level...the stakes are usually very high. Do you think that an Almighty and Omniscient God would subject humanity to a test like this for no good reason? He does not have the limitations that we mere mortals have in his view of the past, present and future. So he has provided his written word to tell us the whole story. This is a story that Christendom has grossly distorted under the devil's influence. That influence is no match for God's holy spirit however, which leads his true worshippers to the truth. (John 6:44) He never expected them to be in the majority (Matthew 7:13, 14) because he knows that the hearts of men can be easily swayed towards evil.....the very reason he intended to keep it away from them.
Do you value free will? God obviously does, or he would not have given it to us. Does free will mean that we can be tempted away from what God says is right? You bet! Adam proved it...but Jesus proved that it didn't need to happen. Our choices are ours to make, but all of them have consequences. God warns us of the consequence, but forces us to do nothing.
The devil had no one to tempt him except his own desire. God did not tempt him, nor does he tempt anyone else with evil things. (James 1:13-15)
The devil raised issues in Eden that had to be settled because the ramifications would be devastating for God entire family, both in heaven and on earth.
Rebellion began in the spirit realm and spread to God's new creation by a dissatisfied spirit creature who wanted to be a god to them. He couldn't be a god to his fellow angels because they were his equal....all he could be was their leader. But lesser beings could elevate him to where he wanted to be...."like God". So he lied to the newby in the garden and fooled her into disobedience, and this in turn, tested the loyalty of the man....it made him choose between the love of his God and the love of his wife.
Divide and conquer is still the devil's favorite tactic.
If God had just eliminated the rebels without resolving the issues, what was to stop other free willed spirit beings from becoming another satan?
The questions of whether the Creator withheld something beneficial from his earthly children in keeping a knowledge of evil to himself?.....whether God lied about the penalty? Satan said that they would not die.
Would the human race would be better off under the devil's rulership?....and would independence from God would work out well....these all had to be settled.
Then there were the issues raised in the case of Job.....do humans just worship God because he is good to them? Is their love and devotion to him based on a "sugar-daddy" mentality? If you threaten a person's life, will they sell their soul to the devil and abandon God completely?
These are the issues being thrashed out in the heavenly courtroom as we speak. Each one of us is being used as evidence against the Creator, who has furnished his witnesses to testify in his behalf, and to refute the testimony of the devil's witnesses.
We already know the outcome of this case, but what it accomplishes, is the precedents set for all eternity to come. No rebel will ever be able to challenge the sovereignty of the Creator ever again. No one will ever want to invite a rebel to be ruler over them when they see where this rebel took us. We have all proven by our stance on the worship of God that we are either for his rulership or against it.
The apostles made sure that Jesus ministry and its vital message were recorded and added to scripture. The entire Bible is the word of God and the NT writers were as inspired as the OT ones were.
The verses in the Bible that people find contradictory, only contradict Christendom's errors, not the Bible's message at all.
Please give me examples and I will show you how they fit in with the Bible's overall theme.
If God can allow us to endure the trials of this life with a purpose that has an incredible everlastingly good outcome, and then he can erase all the painful memories....is it not loving to do it. Wouldn't the pain be soooo worth it?
"Hell" is an invention of the church to keep the ignorant masses in servitude. There is no eternal torture....why would a loving God do such a thing? What purpose does it serve and whose justice does it fulfill...certainly not God's. There was no imprisonment or torture in any of God's laws to Israel. There was only death as a the highest form of punishment.
The Bible's hell is the grave. People "rest in peace" in that place. "Gehenna" (the other "hell") is a metaphor for everlasting death, not everlasting torture.
Those in gehenna will never see life again.
LOL
The flood got rid of a whole different class of rebellious evildoers.
@Deeje I wonder if she might answer this. She says,
A broken bone and burns cause suffering. Correct? How is it possible that those are a by-product of evil and how is a world without those possible?
How did Jesus heal in the first century?....he instantaneously cured all maladies. He gave power to his disciples to heal too....How do you think he will heal in the new world?
Pain is not the enemy.....sin is. Pain is a signal that something is wrong and needs attention. That kind of pain is beneficial and will remain with us, but having achieved human perfection, we will be less prone to accidents and there will be no sickness or prolonged suffering or emotional pain connected to the death of loved ones to deal with.
I look forward to that time.
It's not allowed for Jehovah's Witness to use the miraculous power of healing now. Correct? How will you know when the right time comes again?
Or maybe you think Jesus and the 144,000 will do all the healing. Where is it written they are healers? Jesus is called Teacher and Lord. Never, "The Healer". Where is it written that they will work for you?
Jehovah's Witnesses are taught to suffer gracefully all kinds of ways now knowing that Jesus does no healing presently so that later
they will be privileged to live in Paradise where Jesus will do all kinds of healing. The lesson is he can, but he won't.
they will be privileged to live in Paradise where Jesus will do all kinds of healing. The lesson is he can, but he won't.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
The course of life and the tongue are set on fire by the metaphor of "everlasting death"?
James 3:6 (ESV Strong's) 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell [everlasting death].
When we are dead, and in the grave, we will be in torment? How can that be if we cease to exist?
Luke 16:22-24 (ESV Strong's) The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades [the grave], being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
g4982. σώζω sōzō; from a primary σῶς sōs (contraction for obsolete σάος saos, “safe”); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): — heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.
AV (110) - save 93, make whole 9, heal 3, be whole 2, misc 3;
John 3:17 (ESV Strong's) 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved (sōzō) through him.
John 5:34 (ESV Strong's) 34 Not that the testimony that I receive is from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved. (sōzō)
John 10:9 (ESV Strong's) 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved (sōzō) and will go in and out and find pasture.
1 Peter 2:24 (ESV Strong's) 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
Matthew 8:17 (ESV Strong's) 17 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah: “He took our illnesses and bore our diseases.”
Yes, but THEY say it is HE who will heal. It is we who are healed by our belief in him and it is WE who heal the world. Do you agree with them that Jesus is going to do the work to heal us? Or is healing up to us?
Genesis 1:28
Was it not always in humankind's power to heal? What does "subdue" mean?