The Atonement Doctrine (Did Jesus Die For Our Sins?)

[Ben Avraham]

You need to have your eyes checked. The NT makes it clear he was King of the Jew's. Secular history denies that the Jew's were ever in Egypt, and that the Exodus never occurred.

And it seems to me you need to have your head checked by a good psychiatrist. Otherwise, to affirm that Jesus was a king of the Jews in Israel, you must be throwing that for the laughs and the gags.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I see a bias....

I will stand by my post
cleansing the temple was a sin?
was it an infraction of Roman law?

to which do you plead?
the law of Man ....or God?

Please, don't be sarcastic! The sin was not in cleansing the Temple but with breaking the Golden Rule to whip the money changers. I am sure Jesus did not like when the Romans whipped him. So, he should have not done the same to the money
changers. Jesus was not a member of the Temple workforce and the money changers had the authorization of the High Priest to help the foreign Jews to change their money with the Temple shekel as a matter of Kasherut.

 

[shmogie]

And it seems to me you need to have your head checked by a good psychiatrist. Otherwise, to affirm that Jesus was a king of the Jews in Israel, you must be throwing that for the laughs and the gags.

WAS/ IS/ ALWAYS WILL BE

 

[shmogie]

What lifestyle choices? Something to do with my propension of not talking nonsense to a fig tree, or what else do you have in mind, exactly?

Or do you mean my disbelieve in the tales in the NT? Well, then it is not surprise that the NT condemns me.

Ciao

- viole

I recall in another exchange you indicated you identified not as the gender you were born. If my recollection is wrong, I will happily withdraw it. You may not talk to fig trees, but you believe life created itself from non living chemicals, thus making your comments about talking to a fig tree, very ironic

 

[viole]

I recall in another exchange you indicated you identified not as the gender you were born. If my recollection is wrong, I will happily withdraw it. You may not talk to fig trees, but you believe life created itself from non living chemicals, thus making your comments about talking to a fig tree, very ironic

Life created itself? Whatever does that mean? Life created life? I don't recall having said something like that. Do you have some evidence of me havisg said something like that?

You are obsessed with things needing to be created, which justifies your religious beliefs, but have no real foundation in logic, I am afraid. On the contrary, they tend to beg the question.

By the way, you mentioned my lifestyle, which, allegedely, is disapproved by some ancient books. What did you mean by that?

Ciao

- viole

 

[shmogie]

Life created itself? Whatever does that mean? Life created life? I don't recall having said something like that. Do you have some evidence of me havisg said something like that?

You are obsessed with things needing to be created, which justifies your religious beliefs, but have no real foundation in logic, I am afraid. On the contrary, they tend to beg the question.

By the way, you mentioned my lifestyle, which, allegedely, is disapproved by some ancient books. What did you mean by that?

Ciao

- viole

Please, you and I have debated at length your obsession with abiogenesis. I mean that your lifestyle choice is condemned in the Bible, but you knew that

 

[Thief]

Please, don't be sarcastic! The sin was not in cleansing the Temple but with breaking the Golden Rule to whip the money changers. I am sure Jesus did not like when the Romans whipped him. So, he should have not done the same to the money
changers. Jesus was not a member of the Temple workforce and the money changers had the authorization of the High Priest to help the foreign Jews to change their money with the Temple shekel as a matter of Kasherut.

Rome was never in the business of enforcing religious law

causing a disturbance at the temple got the Carpenter whipped
no doubt the Pharisees wanted the Man dead
and Pilate didn't care so much as 39lashes was delivered

it would have been convenient for the Carpenter to die at the post
the Pharisees would have their dead Man
and Roman would have done it's duty
too bad ... if the Man failed to survive

but He did

the Pharisees still wanted Him dead
and the accusation of ....Son of God....meant nothing to Rome
that would be religious

but then to say the Son of God IS....King of the Jews....
insurrection
and a capital offense

 

[shmogie]

Correct ! Pilate put it right in their face, showing who was really in charge

 

[shmogie]

Correct ! Pilate put it right in their face, showing who was really in charge

 

[Muffled]

Who told to you that Jesus believed in bodily resurrection? He would not contradict his own gospel aka the Tanach.

I don't believe the Tenach says there isn't one. Certainly there were Jews who believed in one:
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

 

[Muffled]

1) Paul nor any one else has established a Covernant with God.
It is thought Jesus established a New Covernant but if so when? how? And What? Lots of fellow christians have answers to these questions but I find them all unconvincing.

3) To love others as ourselves is a target, in the same way as the Jewish law is a target, not to be forgotton or not striven for... but rarely achieved.
4)Rather than Laws we have the teachings of Jesus... which advise our morals, laws and way of life. We also recognise our version of the Old testament. Which provides a constant guide of to how to live a good and godly life. And is referenced in every Christian service.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Lu 22:20 And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, even that which is poured out for you.

Since Jesus says it is the new covenant then I believe it is.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I don't believe the Tenach says there isn't one. Certainly there were Jews who believed in one:
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

It doesn't work to claim you believe or you don't. You have got to show the proper evidence from the Tanach. And you don't have to quote the NT to prove bodily resurrection because I am well aware of what Paul said that Jesus resurrected according to his, Paul's gospel. (II Timothy 2:8)

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

t

Rome was never in the business of enforcing religious law

causing a disturbance at the temple got the Carpenter whipped
no doubt the Pharisees wanted the Man dead
and Pilate didn't care so much as 39lashes was delivered

it would have been convenient for the Carpenter to die at the post
the Pharisees would have their dead Man
and Roman would have done it's duty
too bad ... if the Man failed to survive

but He did

the Pharisees still wanted Him dead
and the accusation of ....Son of God....meant nothing to Rome
that would be religious

but then to say the Son of God IS....King of the Jews....
insurrection
and a capital offense

Pretty impressive, fits logic the emotions backing both sides,
made a decent observation, a fantastic one actually
that's actually how I viewed the trial

 

[ukok102nak]

~;> so as it is written
:read:
1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy has begotten us again to a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

everyone can read the whole chapter
as long as they want to


:ty:





godbless
unto all always

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

~;> so as it is written
:read:
1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy has begotten us again to a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

everyone can read the whole chapter
as long as they want to


:ty:

Well if your actually watching this. What I'm actually watching is if you cant have even what is necessary prior the church is wronging people. Again why would it be necessary to do so? As they are manipulating using both ends. I don't think I would want it. As they watch people and manipulate. They've caused people to commit suicide maybe that's the other side too. Is that the price? It's not worth it than and also any other token of religion.
How is it that they think they'll get unity? I can say I'm not sure I even want it as far as I've seen them manipulate me and others.
How to be happy? hmmmmmm
It's mean.
It's cold.
And how do you spell evolution?
Evol. stop





godbless
unto all always

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

oWell if your actually watching this. What I'm actually watching is if you cant have even what is necessary prior the church is wronging people. Again why would it be necessary to do so? As they are manipulating using both ends. I don't think I would want it. As they watch people and manipulate. They've caused people to commit suicide maybe that's the other side too. Is that the price? It's not worth it than and also any other token of religion. Does death have to proceed those coming, you wouldn't even have a church anywhere if that was true. Maybe they have to deny certain truths to get what they want so they can have their unity, how many times have they tried that, why did someone come up with the theory of relativity. Denying certain truths to make something more relevant doesn't work to well. So they make a massive system to check everything and everyone. But you still don't get unity. There is a reason why science always falls short. Actually is the theory of relativity that drops the ball. The son of man just has too come back and hit that dead on or there would be no flesh saved.
Sorry if I'm saying much; may seem at you, it's not a means to attack it's just I already opened the book.
How is it that they think they'll get unity? I'm not sure I want it as far as I've seen them manipulate me and others.
How to be happy? hmmmmmm
It's mean.
It's cold.
And how do you spell evolution?
Evol. stop

 

[ukok102nak]

~;> so as it is written
:read:
1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy has begotten us again to a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

looks like peter also said something about the resurrection of christ
in his gospel

oWell if your actually watching this. What I'm actually watching is if you cant have even what is necessary prior the church is wronging people. Again why would it be necessary to do so? As they are manipulating using both ends. I don't think I would want it. As they watch people and manipulate. They've caused people to commit suicide maybe that's the other side too. Is that the price? It's not worth it than and also any other token of religion. Does death have to proceed those coming, you wouldn't even have a church anywhere if that was true. Maybe they have to deny certain truths to get what they want so they can have their unity, how many times have they tried that, why did someone come up with the theory of relativity. Denying certain truths to make something more relevant doesn't work to well. So they make a massive system to check everything and everyone. But you still don't get unity. There is a reason why science always falls short. Actually is the theory of relativity that drops the ball. The son of man just has too come back and hit that dead on or there would be no flesh saved.
Sorry if I'm saying much; may seem at you, it's not a means to attack it's just I already opened the book.
How is it that they think they'll get unity? I'm not sure I want it as far as I've seen them manipulate me and others.
How to be happy? hmmmmmm
It's mean.
It's cold.
And how do you spell evolution?
Evol. stop

~;> if someone is out there giving a different commandments that is not written by those good prophets and good disciples of christ
then its up to them to realize what is better for their salvation in regards unto their churches which they belong to
coz in the first place those good people who were written in the bible are the one who spoke to god literally by means of
god's messangers
and
not unto those
some false leaders of some churches today
who manipulates some people just to show their unity towards material things in this reality

now
even if you want to push yourself to limit as human to tell them about the difference in what is written
but
still some people are clinging unto the teachings of man
so how are you going to show your unity with them

so if we show our unity towards those false teachings
AND WHAT WE ARE TALKIN ABOUT IN HERE IS ABOUT UNITY WITH GOD FIRST OF ALL
then as a human how can you do it simultaneously by
showing unity towards false teaching of some false leaders of some churches
then again showing them that their own love towards money could only mislead everyone

and
did you even try to discuss this unto some false leaders of the churches as what we did before
like even giving your opinion unto them
that having a personal relationship towards god is nearly as impossible
as having a personal relationship towards a false teachings

so meaning its not everyoneone fault if some people choose the carnal things on this planet just to make them happy
rather than to choose the evelasting happiness with your loved ones

as they say
how come someone could think only of its own happiness without someone to share with it as those happiness could means a lot only to oneself and not unto others
with god and without god

also
looks like the term evolution cannot be found in the bible itself literally
according to some people becaused some people were aftering to write them on their books and make some financial gain only for themselves
thats why some people cant find it in the written scripture
thats unfortunate for those some people out there
and not for those people who
found the right words that fits the term evolution towards humanity and not only for myself
what we meant is we are not gaining anything which is temporal such a those material things
coz those things wont buy any of our salvation

and when someone thought
it is not possible to live without having money
then its a lot of mistakes for that someone
coz we earn our livings by working as a slaves to some people but we are not make our living by using the very words of god
coz we are not preachers nor priest but just an ordinary average human being
and thats one of many reasons that make us happy
and sometimes also tickle us a lot literally
my sister
if we may say so


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

~;> so as it is written
:read:
1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy has begotten us again to a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

looks like peter also said something about the resurrection of christ
in his gospel



~;> if someone is out there giving a different commandments that is not written by those good prophets and good disciples of christ
then its up to them to realize what is better for their salvation in regards unto their churches which they belong to
coz in the first place those good people who were written in the bible are the one who spoke to god literally by means of
god's messangers
and
not unto those
some false leaders of some churches today
who manipulates some people just to show their unity towards material things in this reality

now
even if you want to push yourself to limit as human to tell them about the difference in what is written
but
still some people are clinging unto the teachings of man
so how are you going to show your unity with them

so if we show our unity towards those false teachings
AND WHAT WE ARE TALKIN ABOUT IN HERE IS ABOUT UNITY WITH GOD FIRST OF ALL
then as a human how can you do it simultaneously by
showing unity towards false teaching of some false leaders of some churches
then again showing them that their own love towards money could only mislead everyone

and
did you even try to discuss this unto some false leaders of the churches as what we did before
like even giving your opinion unto them
that having a personal relationship towards god is nearly as impossible
as having a personal relationship towards a false teachings

so meaning its not everyoneone fault if some people choose the carnal things on this planet just to make them happy
rather than to choose the evelasting happiness with your loved ones

as they say
how come someone could think only of its own happiness without someone to share with it as those happiness could means a lot only to oneself and not unto others
with god and without god

also
looks like the term evolution cannot be found in the bible itself literally
according to some people becaused some people were aftering to write them on their books and make some financial gain only for themselves
thats why some people cant find it in the written scripture
thats unfortunate for those some people out there
and not for those people who
found the right words that fits the term evolution towards humanity and not only for myself
anc tickle a lot my sister
if we may say so

:ty:




godbless
unto all always

I never said anything like that I for one wasnt for money or even tried to get that from that..
Actually its what you cant see.
Its about love as I did write
Its about the necessity that got no attention.
So the church doesn't actually care
for whatever reason.
marriage.
So tickle tickle tickle

 

[ukok102nak]

~;> and we are not saying anything like that unto my sister
as we only explaning it unto you
thats why we said
if we may say so


:ty:




godbless
unto all always

I never said anything like that I for one wasnt for money or even tried to get that from that..
Actually its what you cant see.
Its about love as I did write
Its about the necessity that got no attention.
So the church doesn't actually care
for whatever reason.
marriage.
So tickle tickle tickle

 

[ukok102nak]

~;> literally what we mean is we are clarifying our stand unto the written words of god
as simple as that


:ty:




godbless
unto all always