If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

[Kenny]

YOU say there is nothing in it to mislead, that it is perfect. I say there are scriptures which mislead IN IT.
THEY say God does not allow it to mislead. I say that would be magic and actually magic is something which the book warns about.

Yes.... that is what you say but you certainly haven't given substance to your position.

 

[Kenny]

As I recall, evil is not mentioned in that scripture in the original. What did I miss?

the whole of the point?

Which definition of "evil" did you want to address? In each of the definitions, there is a scriptural reference.

You can choose which one you want to look at.

 

[savagewind]

Yes.... that is what you say but you certainly haven't given substance to your position.

OK. Jesus says good seed was planted but in the night someone came to sow weeds in among the good grain and then left.
YOU might say, like THEY say, that it is a prophesy of what was to come. WHY would Jesus prophesy that? Isn't he describing what had already happened?

 

[savagewind]

the whole of the point?

Which definition of "evil" did you want to address? In each of the definitions, there is a scriptural reference.

You can choose which one you want to look at.

I asked for an example of evil in the plural. You provided a scripture, but the word evil is not in it. Neither is the singular nor is the plural form there, according to what I can see. Explain to me, please, how you see evil there. Did you look at the link?

 

[Kenny]

I asked for an example of evil in the plural. You provided a scripture, but the word evil is not in it. Neither is the singular nor is the plural form there, according to what I can see. Explain to me, please, how you see evil there. Did you look at the link?

I gave you two... the OT and NT. The OT is plural and one of the definitions of evil.

Which definition did you want?

 

[savagewind]

The discussion is about how some people believe that because each translation of the Bible is so similar, then they (each word) must be correct.
I say the World's EVIL (singular) works that way. What way? That evil men are in agreement with each other. Their advantage, to be sure.

 

[savagewind]

I gave you two... the OT and NT. The OT is plural and one of the definitions of evil.

Which definition did you want?

Someone added evil there. It is not in the original.

Gen 42:36 Their father Jacob said: You have made me to be without children: Joseph is not living, Simeon is kept in bonds, and Benjamin you will take away: all these evils are fallen upon me.

559 [e] way-yō-mer וַיֹּ֤אמֶר and said
413 [e] ’ă-lê-hem אֲלֵהֶם֙ unto
3290 [e] ya-‘ă-qōḇ יַעֲקֹ֣ב Jacob
1 [e] ’ă-ḇî-hem, אֲבִיהֶ֔ם their father
853 [e] ’ō-ṯî אֹתִ֖י them
7921 [e] šik-kal-tem; שִׁכַּלְתֶּ֑ם You have bereaved me
3130 [e] yō-w-sêp̄ יוֹסֵ֤ף Joseph
369 [e] ’ê-nen-nū אֵינֶ֙נּוּ֙ not [is]
8095 [e] wə-šim-‘ō-wn וְשִׁמְע֣וֹן and Simeon
369 [e] ’ê-nen-nū, אֵינֶ֔נּוּ not [is]
853 [e] wə-’eṯ- וְאֶת־ and
1144 [e] bin-yā-min בִּנְיָמִ֣ן Benjamin
3947 [e] tiq-qā-ḥū, תִּקָּ֔חוּ you will take
5921 [e] ‘ā-lay עָלַ֖י against me
1961 [e] hā-yū הָי֥וּ is
3605 [e] ḵul-lā-nāh. כֻלָּֽנָה׃ all

JPS Tanakh 1917
And Jacob their father said unto them: 'Me have ye bereaved of my children: Joseph is not, and Simeon is not, and ye will take Benjamin away; upon me are all these things come.'

 

[Kenny]

OK. Jesus says good seed was planted but in the night someone came to sow weeds in among the good grain and then left.
YOU might say, like THEY say, that it is a prophesy of what was to come. WHY would Jesus prophesy that? Isn't he describing what had already happened?

So, what you are saying is what "people say" is confusing. Is the principle confusing to you?

 

[Kenny]

The discussion is about how some people believe that because each translation of the Bible is so similar, then they (each word) must be correct.
I say the World's EVIL (singular) works that way. What way? That evil men are in agreement with each other. Their advantage, to be sure.

Your statement connotes the proverbial straining at a gnat and eating a camel.

 

[savagewind]

So, what you are saying is what "people say" is confusing. Is the principle confusing to you?

I am sorry. This has no meaning. If you care to convey meaning, might you rephrase this?

 

[savagewind]

Your statement connotes the proverbial straining at a gnat and eating a camel.

Might be if the whole Bible is a camel but the mistakes are gnats. Good one! LOL

 

[Kenny]

Someone added evil there. It is not in the original.


559 [e] way-yō-mer וַיֹּ֤אמֶר and said
413 [e] ’ă-lê-hem אֲלֵהֶם֙ unto
3290 [e] ya-‘ă-qōḇ יַעֲקֹ֣ב Jacob
1 [e] ’ă-ḇî-hem, אֲבִיהֶ֔ם their father
853 [e] ’ō-ṯî אֹתִ֖י them
7921 [e] šik-kal-tem; שִׁכַּלְתֶּ֑ם You have bereaved me
3130 [e] yō-w-sêp̄ יוֹסֵ֤ף Joseph
369 [e] ’ê-nen-nū אֵינֶ֙נּוּ֙ not [is]
8095 [e] wə-šim-‘ō-wn וְשִׁמְע֣וֹן and Simeon
369 [e] ’ê-nen-nū, אֵינֶ֔נּוּ not [is]
853 [e] wə-’eṯ- וְאֶת־ and
1144 [e] bin-yā-min בִּנְיָמִ֣ן Benjamin
3947 [e] tiq-qā-ḥū, תִּקָּ֔חוּ you will take
5921 [e] ‘ā-lay עָלַ֖י against me
1961 [e] hā-yū הָי֥וּ is
3605 [e] ḵul-lā-nāh. כֻלָּֽנָה׃ all

JPS Tanakh 1917
And Jacob their father said unto them: 'Me have ye bereaved of my children: Joseph is not, and Simeon is not, and ye will take Benjamin away; upon me are all these things come.'

I disagree....

Love has many Greek definitions (eros, phileo, agape) - but they are all love. The greek word wife and woman are the same words whereas we are more definitive.

In the case of the scriptural reference, what was against the person was evil. Certainly, going to the original, you can get a better understanding but it is still evil.

 

[Kenny]

Might be if the whole Bible is a camel but the mistakes are gnats. Good one! LOL

Did I say it was "perfect"?

 

[Kenny]

I am sorry. This has no meaning. If you care to convey meaning, might you rephrase this?

If it happened, is happening, and/or is going to happen... why is it confusing to you?

 

[savagewind]

I disagree....

Love has many Greek definitions (eros, phileo, agape) - but they are all love. The greek word wife and woman are the same words whereas we are more definitive.

In the case of the scriptural reference, what was against the person was evil. Certainly, going to the original, you can get a better understanding but it is still evil.

Dangerous to assume. It was GOD who caused Joseph's leave so...............you should be OK calling what God does, "evil". I am not. OK?

 

[savagewind]

Did I say it was "perfect"?

No mistakes means perfect fyi.

 

[Kenny]

Dangerous to assume. It was GOD who caused Joseph leave so...............you should be OK calling what God does, "evil". I am not. OK?

That is your understanding... I don't see it that way.

 

[savagewind]

That is your understanding... I don't see it that way.

Obviously. Thank you for talking to me.

 

[Kenny]

No mistakes means perfect fyi.

Where did I say "no mistakes"? Please quote where I said that.

 

[moorea944]

You conveniently leave out 14:10 which shows God does the work - not Jesus.

This in no way says Jesus is God, nor is Jesus saying he is God.

It very specifically says God is within him, and GOD does the works.

Joh 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

*

Absolutely!!!! Great post, thank you. Look at Acts 2 with Peter. He tells everyone that the miracles that Jesus did, was God's miracles, that he was working "through" his son.
Same thing with 2 Cor. God was working through his son to reconcile the world back to him.

I also love psalms 89. "He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth."

John 17 "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." Jesus explains right here why he said, I and my father are one.

Hey call me crazy, but I just dont see a trinity and anything co-equal in any of this......

Even in the beginning of most of Paul's letters, he also states that God is the God and father of Jesus.....