Do you believe in spontaneous organic life from non living elements?

[leibowde84]

This is what you've been told. It's the popular view. Have you seen the proof? No. The evidence -- which is not proof -- is interpreted to support what's popular.

The ToE wasn't popular when it came out initially. Most scientists worked hard to disprove it. There is now far too much evidence supporting the theory, and there are fossil and bone records that show human beings were roaming 30k years ago. I've seen the evidence myself at the Natural History Museum in DC many times. I would recommend that you check out a similar museum wherever you are located. It makes it very obvious that evolution is the best available explanation for the evidence.

 

[Ouroboros]

This is what you've been told. It's the popular view. Have you seen the proof? No. The evidence -- which is not proof -- is interpreted to support what's popular.

You don't really prove things in science. You make proofs in math, however, but in science you collect evidence and draw conclusions from the data.

I've seen evidence of evolution, and it wasn't hard to realize that it is true. I wasn't told to believe it. The evidence was too convincing.

 

[leibowde84]

It's a good question, even atheists like Hoyle have been skeptical of such a spontaneous miracle, Dawkins acknowledges ID accounting for life as not only possible, but potentially verifiable scientifically were we to study it , (but of course this must be strictly verboten!!)

You are dishonestly putting words in his mouth. Dawkins merely acknowledged the possibility of ID. He has never once claimed it is likely.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

There is no doubt in my mind you can cherry pick a ton of examples.
Especially using the count the hits, ignore the misses technique.

Oh wait......
I ALREADY said just that.

The proper 'technique' requires using all of it, and ignoring none of it. -- Luke 10:21

Like the pagan belief of Hellfire. (First off, there is no word for 'Hellfire')To believe the Bible teaches this, is to ignore one Scripture after another that confirms Ecclesiastes 9:5, "the dead are aware of nothing." (How can one be tormented, if they are 'unaware' of it, they can't feel it?)

For most, it's not that they ignore it....they just aren't taught what the Bible really teaches. Religious leaders of Christendom "ignore" a lot of it, to promote their old, established false doctrines.

Did you even read my post, re: the Earth and how the word is used symbolically and literally? Or you just aren't open to the possibility of there being any truth to the Bible?

"count the hits, ignore the misses"

Only if those expressing belief in it are not humble enough to be willing to change their preconceived ideas, in order to understand it correctly; then they'll have a lot of ignores!



Luke 10:21 applies.

 

[viole]

This is what you've been told. It's the popular view. Have you seen the proof? No. The evidence -- which is not proof -- is interpreted to support what's popular.

Science is not in the business of "proof". Proof is the business of mathematicians. I have seen the evidence. The same evidence you refute because of your a-priory belief that has not even a minimal shred of evidence to start with, and it is, for what we know, just pulled out of thin air.

And I do not think that the fact that we share a common ancestor with gorillas (and bananas), is, or was, very popular, or intuitive.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Sapiens]

This is what you've been told. It's the popular view. Have you seen the proof? No. The evidence -- which is not proof -- is interpreted to support what's popular.

Science does not "prove" things, it deals in likelihood only. Have I seen enough to understand what is most likely? Absolutely.

Hockeycowboy puts the cart before the horse. For each every scientist (like myself) there was a personal journey to develop a skeptic's synthesis of the evidence, and in almost each and every case the conclusion reached supports Evolution through Natural Selection. I was not force-fed one "popular" view, bur rather started at the beginning with Aristotle's Inquiries on Animals (Τῶν περὶ τὰ ζῷα ἱστοριῶν) and worked my way up through the modern neo-Darwinian synthesis. The popularity of that synthesis stems not from its popularity (such a tautology is idiotic) but rather from the verdict of just about everyone who has skeptically examined the evidence and the arguments. The likeliness of the synthesis is measured by the plethora of creationist arguments from ignorance and the utter lack of verifiable evidence for creationism

You are dishonestly putting words in his mouth. Dawkins merely acknowledged the possibility of ID. He has never once claimed it is likely.

In fact, if you bother to read the entire conversation, Dawkins makes his major point a line down: "But that higher intelligence would itself have had to have come about by some explicable, or ultimately explicable process, he couldn’t have just jumped into existence spontaneously, that’s the point." This is one of the few places where the childish recursion of: "why, why, why, etc." leads to a meaningful outcome. Eventually, the penultimate creator had to have come about from abiogenic processes. The sheer power of this trivial logical construct, when allied with parsimony, knocks creationism (in all its guises) into a cocked hat.

 

[metis]

I'm simply stating that I know, from the Scriptures, who I worship. How is that arrogant?
You are Jewish, right? You worship Yahweh, right? So do I.

(Do you not think He is God? I mean no disrespect.)

King David exalted Yahweh (Jehovah), spoke of Him to others, as he stated many times. I'm simply trying to do what David did!

The "arrogance" is being condescending and even demeaning towards others who may have have some different interpretations than you.

 

[Acim]

The "arrogance" is being condescending and even demeaning towards others who may have have some different interpretations than you.

Welcome to RF debate forums!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You don't really prove things in science. You make proofs in math, however, but in science you collect evidence and draw conclusions from the data.

I've seen evidence of evolution, and it wasn't hard to realize that it is true. I wasn't told to believe it. The evidence was too convincing.

The "arrogance" is being condescending and even demeaning towards others who may have have some different interpretations than you.

This is not "my" interpretation, as if I came up with it. It's only what I've been taught! I am nothing. If I've been taught something right, or wrong, it says nothing about me!

We should strive to examine all pertinent evidence, and then make a decision; however, much evidence has been slanted by so-called experts, who usually have their own agenda.

 

[Ouroboros]

We should strive to examine all pertinent evidence, and then make a decision; however, much evidence has been slanted by so-called experts, who usually have their own agenda.

I spent about 30 years or more examining Christianity. I was born and raised in a very fundamentalistic Pentecostal family. I went to Bible school, and much more. My plan was to become an evangelist or missionary. I searched for evidence beyond reasonable doubt. I tried to find facts that would blow all evolution out of the water. For years, and years...

Things happened. Life changed. I realized that my faith wasn't there anymore. I stopped believing. I prayed to God to give me faith, but nothing happened.

Years went by, I went back to school to extend my education. Took classes of many different kinds, some of them in anthropology. In one year, I saw more evidence than I had ever seen. All of it in support of evolution.

I do believe I took an honest look at it, and really spent my time to learn. I was 3/4 of my life in the Christian camp, could never find the evidence. In a few years, less than 1/4 of my life, I found more evidence for evolution than anything else I've seen.

So, who had the agenda? Not a single one of my teachers. One of them was very spiritual in fact and not an atheist. So how do you figure he had an agenda to convince me about something against God?

I've met, mostly online, a lot of people who believe in God and yet are convinced of evolution. The fact is, evolution is true. The fact is also, your belief in God doesn't have to be in conflict with science. What we see in nature is what God created, and he/she/it created it in that way, and not in the way that you want it to be. Accept Nature as God created it instead of making your own image of God dictate what you think Nature should be.

(And if you go even a step further, you realize that God and Nature are One. )

Oh, and most of my family, mom, siblings, and so on, are still young earth creationists. They truly believe evolution is from Satan. That's the background I came from.

 

[leibowde84]

This is not "my" interpretation, as if I came up with it. It's only what I've been taught! I am nothing. If I've been taught something right, or wrong, it says nothing about me!

We should strive to examine all pertinent evidence, and then make a decision; however, much evidence has been slanted by so-called experts, who usually have their own agenda.

I've seen you make this claim many times here. Can you support it with evidence? Something more than mere speculation.

 

[Thief]

You don't really prove things in science. You make proofs in math, however, but in science you collect evidence and draw conclusions from the data.

I've seen evidence of evolution, and it wasn't hard to realize that it is true. I wasn't told to believe it. The evidence was too convincing.

there may not be evidence of God....however.....
faith needs no proving and I strongly suspect.....
God is the inventor of evolution

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Do you believe in spontaneous organic life from non living elements?

If you walk back the Evolutionary theories to their beginning at some point you have to deal with this question.

Even if that first life in the form of bacteria came from some other planet hitched to an an asteroid or meteor you still have to get to the point of answering the question of how did that organism form.

If you do believe in spontaneous life then please tell us how that happened and evidence for that theory.

If not then please tell us what other mechanism could have produced that first life or theory for how it happened.

This is my discussion so any theory including religious and philisophical will be allowed.

Take evolution 101 an 102. Why should i repeat two text books for you here in a forum? Educate yourself man!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I spent about 30 years or more examining Christianity. I was born and raised in a very fundamentalistic Pentecostal family. I went to Bible school, and much more. My plan was to become an evangelist or missionary. I searched for evidence beyond reasonable doubt. I tried to find facts that would blow all evolution out of the water. For years, and years...

Things happened. Life changed. I realized that my faith wasn't there anymore. I stopped believing. I prayed to God to give me faith, but nothing happened.

Years went by, I went back to school to extend my education. Took classes of many different kinds, some of them in anthropology. In one year, I saw more evidence than I had ever seen. All of it in support of evolution.

I do believe I took an honest look at it, and really spent my time to learn. I was 3/4 of my life in the Christian camp, could never find the evidence. In a few years, less than 1/4 of my life, I found more evidence for evolution than anything else I've seen.

So, who had the agenda? Not a single one of my teachers. One of them was very spiritual in fact and not an atheist. So how do you figure he had an agenda to convince me about something against God?

I've met, mostly online, a lot of people who believe in God and yet are convinced of evolution. The fact is, evolution is true. The fact is also, your belief in God doesn't have to be in conflict with science. What we see in nature is what God created, and he/she/it created it in that way, and not in the way that you want it to be. Accept Nature as God created it instead of making your own image of God dictate what you think Nature should be.

(And if you go even a step further, you realize that God and Nature are One. )

Oh, and most of my family, mom, siblings, and so on, are still young earth creationists. They truly believe evolution is from Satan. That's the background I came from.

Wow.... I appreciate you sharing this with me! (Well, I guess everybody, since all can read it.)

it's late where I am, so I'll say goodnight. Hope to share more with you later on!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I've seen you make this claim many times here. Can you support it with evidence? Something more than mere speculation.

It's late, so I'll try later. There is an interesting discovery I'll share with you.

Take care.

 

[Ouroboros]

Wow.... I appreciate you sharing this with me! (Well, I guess everybody, since all can read it.)

it's late where I am, so I'll say goodnight. Hope to share more with you later on!

You're welcome. And talk more tomorrow.

 

[leibowde84]

It's late, so I'll try later. There is an interesting discovery I'll share with you.

Take care.

Fair enough, but please limit it to evidence that can be verified.

 

[leibowde84]

there may not be evidence of God....however.....
faith needs no proving and I strongly suspect.....
God is the inventor of evolution

Can you explain what you mean by "faith needs no proving" specifically?

 

[Acim]

Can you explain what you mean by "faith needs no proving" specifically?

Ya know, like how people have faith in the existence of a physical world, but can't prove it's existence objectively. That sort of thing.

 

[Thief]

Can you explain what you mean by "faith needs no proving" specifically?

Webster's