Christians, how does God demonstrate he "loves us", without referencing a human sacrifice...

[OnePointSix18]

Christians, can you reference the bible and demonstrate how God "loves us", without referencing: 1) human sacrifice or, 2) some bible character that just claims God loves us?
What did God ever do that really proves or demonstrates his love. I have been unable to find a single act of love that didn't refer to a human sacrifice or someone just saying that God loves us. I'm not talking about Jesus but the God Jesus prayed to.

 

[roger1440]

We are on his Christmas list.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Christians, can you demonstrate how God "loves us", without referencing: 1) human sacrifice or, 2) some bible character that just claims God loves us?
What did God ever do that really proves or demonstrates his love. I have been unable to find a single act of love that didn't refer to a human sacrifice or someone just saying that God loves us. I'm not talking about Jesus but the God Jesus prayed to.

Do you mean from the Bible or supernatural? Most believers will point out God's love is even through the hug of a child to parent, two people bonded in matrimony, the last and huge piece of their favorite German Chocolate cake in their hands, and so forth.

God is seen through everyday life.

Do you mean demonstrate God's love withuot refering to anyone here that makes up god's creation?

How is that possible for any believer to do?

 

[OnePointSix18]

We are on his Christmas list.

Sure would hate to be on that naughty list.

 

[OnePointSix18]

Do you mean from the Bible or supernatural? Most believers will point out God's love is even through the hug of a child to parent, two people bonded in matrimony, the last and huge piece of their favorite German Chocolate cake in their hands, and so forth.

God is seen through everyday life.

Do you mean demonstrate God's love withuot refering to anyone here that makes up god's creation?

How is that possible for any believer to do?

Darn it, thanks for pointing that out! I should have clarified...."in the bible". I don't care about personal, anecdotal evidence. If that kind of evidence was worth anything then I'll be selling shares on the 100 pound diamond that I believe is buried in my back yard.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Darn it, thanks for pointing that out! I should have clarified...."in the bible". I don't care about personal, anecdotal evidence. If that kind of evidence was worth anything then I'll be selling shares on the 100 pound diamond that I believe is buried in my back yard.

How about the Mana (bread/life) he gave to the Isrealites (I think Genesis or Exodus)?

The biggest tenant that their god is the Creator (Genesis), which, in itself (the act of creating) is love (think of having a child)

Gosh, cant think of anymore. Most have to do with sacrifice, offering, through prophets, or by "justice"

 

[OnePointSix18]

Do you mean from the Bible or supernatural? Most believers will point out God's love is even through the hug of a child to parent, two people bonded in matrimony, the last and huge piece of their favorite German Chocolate cake in their hands, and so forth.

God is seen through everyday life.

Do you mean demonstrate God's love withuot refering to anyone here that makes up god's creation?

How is that possible for any believer to do?

This is unrelated to the thread but I take it from past comments you believe in a god or gods. if that is correct, then how did you arrive at to the conclusion there is a god or gods?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This is unrelated to the thread but I take it from past comments you believe in a god or gods. if that is correct, then how did you arrive at to the conclusion there is a god or gods?

I actually don't. I live literally among only Christians both in my complex and town; so, I basically know god by heart. Makes it seem I believe in gods since I went through the Church as well.

But no. If I did believe in God, it would be because I took the sacraments of the Church.

-
EDIT

I know. I'm not a Christian so this thread really doesn't apply to me. It was confusing since god can be seen anywhere according to believers not just in the bible. Thought I'd clarify that a bit before the thread started picking up.

 

[Neo Deist]

God created us and instead of making us automatons, He gave us free will. We make our own choices. If you love someone, set them free...

 

[OnePointSix18]

How about the Mana (bread/life) he gave to the Isrealites (I think Genesis or Exodus)?

The biggest tenant that their god is the Creator (Genesis), which, in itself (the act of creating) is love (think of having a child)

Gosh, cant think of anymore. Most have to do with sacrifice, offering, through prophets, or by "justice"

I am a master wood worker and I create one of a kind stuff all the time. I like building things but that doesn't lead to I "loving" my rocking chair. Not all children are loved either. After all Hitler was someone's love child. Even the act of human sacrifice is bizarre and primitive and should count for naught as one can counter that, in Jesus case, "what sacrifice"? It's not even a full weekend!

 

[OnePointSix18]

God created us and instead of making us automatons, He gave us free will. We make our own choices. If you love someone, set them free...

Thanks for the reply! However, I should have clarified...."in the bible". I don't care about personal, anecdotal evidence. If that kind of evidence was worth anything then I'll be selling shares on the 100 pound diamond that I believe is buried in my backyard.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I am a master wood worker and I create one of a kind stuff all the time. I like building things but that doesn't lead to I "loving" my rocking chair. Not all children are loved either. After all Hitler was someone's love child. Even the act of human sacrifice is bizarre and primitive and should count for naught as one can counter that, in Jesus case, "what sacrifice"? It's not even a full weekend!

I don't agree with the sacrifice method at all.

The act of a Creator (the first cause/parent) creating a child (or children of god) is profound love to a believer. It's not like my creating a poem (though it feels like it) or building a houe. They hvae a personal connection with this god because he created them.

Some people don't love their mothers. Sometimes I get a little annoyed with my own mother. I do love her, not just because she raised be but because she bore me. She took care of me, and all the nine yards.

I honestly don't k now why it has to be "special" just because god is spirit. I dont see any difference between the spiritual and physical worlds (that's me). They do, though. That connection between Creator and creation is love. Thats profoundly stated in the Bible without the sacrafice.



(I'm making it a bit hard for believers...Readers, yall got to think of something elsea new spin?)

 

[idea]

Christians, can you reference the bible and demonstrate how God "loves us", without referencing: 1) human sacrifice or, 2) some bible character that just claims God loves us?
What did God ever do that really proves or demonstrates his love. I have been unable to find a single act of love that didn't refer to a human sacrifice or someone just saying that God loves us. I'm not talking about Jesus but the God Jesus prayed to.

It sounds like you do not understand the point or logic of the atonement. Love involves sacrifice, and the greatest sacrifice there is ....

What is your definition of love? What is the biggest thing someone has done for you to show you that they love you?

If there was some situation (war, accident, whatever...) where it was either your life, or someone else's, and they chose to sacrifice their life in order to save you, would you feel loved by this?

Anyways, the atonement involved more than death - it involved Jesus taking upon himself all of our pain and experiences - he walked in our shoes, no one knows us better etc. etc. the biggest sacrifice was not on the cross, it was in Gethsemane.

 

[idea]

I don't agree with the sacrifice method at all.

The act of a Creator (the first cause/parent) creating a child (or children of god) is profound love to a believer. It's not like my creating a poem (though it feels like it) or building a houe. They hvae a personal connection with this god because he created them.

Some people don't love their mothers. Sometimes I get a little annoyed with my own mother. I do love her, not just because she raised be but because she bore me. She took care of me, and all the nine yards.

I honestly don't k now why it has to be "special" just because god is spirit. I dont see any difference between the spiritual and physical worlds (that's me). They do, though. That connection between Creator and creation is love. Thats profoundly stated in the Bible without the sacrafice.



(I'm making it a bit hard for believers...Readers, yall got to think of something elsea new spin?)

I'm a Christian, but I do not believe that God created me. Google "adopt" in the NT, adopt is better word to describe our relationship to God. The word "create" is actually a mistranslation. God organizes, refines, but does not ex-Nihlo create. He is cleaning up a mess He did not make.

adoption is love - this is where both parties choose one another. It's a relationship based on a covenant - baptism covenant (just as marriage is also a chosen relationship based on a covenant)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm a Christian, but I do not believe that God created me. Google "adopt" in the NT, adopt is better word to describe our relationship to God. The word "create" is actually a mistranslation. God organizes, refines, but does not ex-Nihlo create. He is cleaning up a mess He did not make.

adoption is love - this is where both parties choose one another. It's a relationship based on a covenant - baptism covenant (just as marriage is also a chosen relationship based on a covenant)

I havent heard that view before. Interesting.

I would agree to an extent. I dont believe anything can be created from nothing and nothing can disapear. God is life; so, "he" can't go out of the laws of nature: He IS the laws of nature.

With that said, yes, I can see him reshaping and everything to put the universe together. What puzzles me is why do we feel we are the center of the universe as if this god, out of all the planets he could have adopted "people from" he decided to choose us.

I like the idea of adoption. I havent been adopted; so, I dont know what that's like. I do believe love comes from someone who created you (like a mother/father) and it can from someone who adopts.

Whichever it is, I see loe in both.

 

[OnePointSix18]

How about the Mana (bread/life) he gave to the Isrealites (I think Genesis or Exodus)?

The biggest tenant that their god is the Creator (Genesis), which, in itself (the act of creating) is love (think of having a child)

Gosh, cant think of anymore. Most have to do with sacrifice, offering, through prophets, or by "justice"

You pointed out...How about the Mana (bread/life) he gave to the Isrealites (I think Genesis or Exodus)?

I have thought about this one and don't think this qualifies as a demonstration of love. Think of the WWII POW's in Japanese prisons. They were fed. The Hebrews were God's prisoners in the desert! But thank the god that doesn't actually exist, the Exodus story was fiction, throuth and through.This is one of the best cases of "ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IS EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE". You could extrapolate around 2 million people from the biblical account wandered the desert for 40 years and left no trace. The line of Hebrews walking 5 abreast and 6' apart would have been 4 million miles long. That's enough to circle the sun like the earth.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You pointed out...How about the Mana (bread/life) he gave to the Isrealites (I think Genesis or Exodus)?

I have thought about this one and don't think this qualifies as a demonstration of love. Think of the WWII POW's in Japanese prisons. They were fed. The Hebrews were God's prisoners in the desert! But thank the god that doesn't actually exist, the Exodus story was fiction, throuth and through.This is one of the best cases of "ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IS EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE". You could extrapolate around 2 million people from the biblical account wandered the desert for 40 years and left no trace. The line of Hebrews walking 5 abreast and 6' apart would have been 4 million miles long. That's enough to circle the sun like the earth.

Wow. I read scripture and it didnt seem like the Isrealites where god's prisioners (from a biblical/objective view not my own). God used moses to help them excape to the promise land where they started killing every man, woman, and child so they can take their rightful place on the chosen land as god's chosen people.

I personally dont see love in that. However, when they were in the desert waiting to go to the next stop, god did give them food. That giving life is an act of love no matter who does it. The problem is we dont see the act we see the person behind it. So, if hitler went to hug someone's child there would be a different meaning (from the mother's view) of this hug than it would from, say, that child's grandmother. Yet, say Hitler really meant that hug and his hug was just as genuine as the same hug that child would get from another stranger.

I mean, that's like saying the bible can be a sword (bad) in Hitler's hands and good in a Christians hands. When, I feel according to Christianity, the Bible's sacredness shouldnt depend on who holds and uses it. Hugs are the same way.

So is love.

 

[idea]

I havent heard that view before. Interesting.

It's a Jewish view:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/6274502/God-is-not-the-Creator-claims-academic.html
see also:
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/vocabulary_studies.html
Child Root

Transliteration: "Qa-NeH"
Meaning: To build a nest.
Comments: This child root is a nest builder, one who builds a nest such as a bird. Also God as in Bereshiyt (Genesis) 14.19; "God most high creator (qaneh) of sky and earth". The English word "create" is an abstract word and a foriegn concept to the Hebrews. While we see God as one who makes something from nothing (create), the Hebrews saw God like a bird who goes about acquiring and gathering materials to build a nest (qen), the sky and earth. The Hebrews saw man as the children (eggs) that God built the nest for.

etc. etc.


It is also a Mormon belief:
"29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.
30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.
31 Behold, here is the agency (free will) of man," - https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/93.29?lang=eng

Love is something that exists between two people who choose one another, don't you think? Example - The love within marriage is greater than the love between parent and child (dependent relationship).

With that said, yes, I can see him reshaping and everything to put the universe together. What puzzles me is why do we feel we are the center of the universe as if this god, out of all the planets he could have adopted "people from" he decided to choose us.

I like the idea of adoption. I havent been adopted; so, I dont know what that's like. I do believe love comes from someone who created you (like a mother/father) and it can from someone who adopts.

Whichever it is, I see loe in both.

I don't think we are the only planet that has been adopted...
Book of Moses 1:33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.
34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.
35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.

Romans 8:15-16
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

...7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

Love is a covenant relationship - (sort of like marriage)
Love involves having faith in one another, hoping for the best in one another, it involves loyalty, trust, being dependable, making and keeping promises etc. etc.

Love is knowing as you are known, etc. etc.

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

The above is love I think.

Moses 7:18
18 And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them.

...be determined in one mind and in one heart, united in all things

 

[OnePointSix18]

It sounds like you do not understand the point or logic of the atonement. Love involves sacrifice, and the greatest sacrifice there is ....

What is your definition of love? What is the biggest thing someone has done for you to show you that they love you?

If there was some situation (war, accident, whatever...) where it was either your life, or someone else's, and they chose to sacrifice their life in order to save you, would you feel loved by this?

Anyways, the atonement involved more than death - it involved Jesus taking upon himself all of our pain and experiences - he walked in our shoes, no one knows us better etc. etc. the biggest sacrifice was not on the cross, it was in Gethsemane.

Thanks for the reply!
I understand many types of atonement, moral influence theory, Christ Victor Theory, Satisfaction Theory, Substitution theory and so on...I understand that the majority consensus changes over time and they are all devilishly twisted and are a conclusion to proposition batch of backward logic.

I don't think anyone I know does something "to show me they love me". Love is an emotion. Love is the result of chemical actions in the brain and is a natural process. It is probably the most exhilarating of all human emotions and is responsible for keeping the human species alive and reproducing. It is necessary to have a brain to experience love. I don't believe God loves us because he's brainless. He lacks the need and evolution necessary to reproduce.

Also anytime someone brings up the suffering Jesus went through I am forced to think of this little girl. I know she was not a christian, and according to modern theology, not only did she endure the agony of being ripped apart and eaten alive, she will also burn in hell for all eternity.

 

[OnePointSix18]

Wow. I read scripture and it didnt seem like the Isrealites where god's prisioners (from a biblical/objective view not my own). God used moses to help them excape to the promise land where they started killing every man, woman, and child so they can take their rightful place on the chosen land as god's chosen people.

I personally dont see love in that. However, when they were in the desert waiting to go to the next stop, god did give them food. That giving life is an act of love no matter who does it. The problem is we dont see the act we see the person behind it. So, if hitler went to hug someone's child there would be a different meaning (from the mother's view) of this hug than it would from, say, that child's grandmother. Yet, say Hitler really meant that hug and his hug was just as genuine as the same hug that child would get from another stranger.

I mean, that's like saying the bible can be a sword (bad) in Hitler's hands and good in a Christians hands. When, I feel according to Christianity, the Bible's sacredness shouldnt depend on who holds and uses it. Hugs are the same way.

So is love.

According to the Exodus story ALL the Israelites that left Egypt perished in the desert! All 2,000,000 + of them, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun. You can't make this stuff up! Almost nobody reads the bible. They are told stories that are cherry picked. Almost no one reads the bible for themselves. Of the ones that do read the bible they are most likely using or following a study guide so they reconstruct the events to maintain either their "Statement of Faith" or some particular doctrine. Anyone that sets out to critically read the bible for themselves will be shocked at the absurdity, cruelty, injustice and contradictions.