Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the gospel is that the Kingdom of God is within us (Through the Holy Spirit) and that we have eternal life because Jesus provides us with those things.
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JW's Preach A Different Gospel
- Thread starter katiemygirl
- Start date
I believe the gospel is that the Kingdom of God is within us (Through the Holy Spirit) and that we have eternal life because Jesus provides us with those things.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe you should recieve Jesus as Lord and Savior. I believe you don't need the gospel to be saved because having Jesus will give you the gospel but I would think the gospel would be a good motivator. I preach whatever Jesus gives me to preach. It seems the first sentence in this response comes up often,
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
I already told you you need to deflate your ego.
Yoshua
Well-Known Member
Hi Jay,
If that would be the case, it might seem JW organization is dependent with Russell and his group. If in case that there is another group who did what Russell and company do during 1800’s to 2000’s, would you think this is valid and true?
If that will be the case, then you did not have a freedom to study scriptures by your own, but being dependent on the source given by Watchtower?
The case of the first Christians differed with our current situation except for the bereans who examine and studied well if Paul’s saying is true. Do you mean that JW members had no freedom to examine the Scriptures and dependent to JW organization/Watchtower?
Paul at Berea
10. And the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea; and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11. Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so.
Psalms 146:3
I think God will forgive all who do not put their trust in you as we obey Psalms 146:3
I for one work to seek The True God to put my faith in. I am sure you will agree that the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses is not a true god. Zephaniah 2:3
It is like the JWs preach, "stop seeking. He is with us!" He isn't. I am sure.
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Matthew 24:26
The sticky thing is that if the JWs did not preach to me that Jesus and God are with them I would not know that it is written Jesus said, "do not believe it". Nobody else came to my house telling me that I had better know what God says.
The sticky thing is that if the JWs did not preach to me that Jesus and God are with them I would not know that it is written Jesus said, "do not believe it". Nobody else came to my house telling me that I had better know what God says.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
Yes, I have read it and mediated on it many times. What in particular is it that you think I've missed?
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
I have no interest in reading anything written by that poster. That's why I have her on ignore. Once bitten, twice shy!JayJayDee answered you in post 881, just in case you wanted to read it. She said she might be on ignore.
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katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
Receive Jesus as Lord and Savior is not the gospel. It is a response to the gospel.
Unless you heard the gospel preached, you would not have known to receive Lord as Savior.
The gospel is the good news that Jesus died, was buried and raised from the dead, and because of His sacrifice you, too, can live forever.
The gospel saves!
1 Cor. 15:2
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
Romans 16:1
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
This is a false assumption! It is just another persons opinion of how they interpreted what they read.
Mat 10:27-28 (ESVST) . 28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
"BOTH" soul "AND" body, isn't that a distinction between the 2? If the soul and body are one and the same, why make the distinction? This comment from Jesus would not be needed if the body and soul were one. In your view, if you kill the body you have killed the soul, correct?
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McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Further proving you can dish it out, but cannot take it.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Acts 10:30-48
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
JW's, what do you think about having a devils advocate on this forum? Should you even be in the same cyber space as them?
JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
SOUL:
"The original-language terms (Heb., neʹphesh [נֶפֶשׁ]; Gr., psy·kheʹ [ψυχή]) as used in the Scriptures show “soul” to be a person, an animal, or the life that a person or an animal enjoys.
.......the English word “soul” stem primarily, not from the Hebrew or Christian Greek Scriptures, but from ancient Greek philosophy, actually pagan religious thought. Greek philosopher Plato, for example, quotes Socrates as saying: “The soul, . . . if it departs pure, dragging with it nothing of the body, . . . goes away into that which is like itself, into the invisible, divine, immortal, and wise, and when it arrives there it is happy, freed from error and folly and fear . . . and all the other human ills, and . . . lives in truth through all after time with the gods.”—Phaedo, 80, D, E; 81, A.
In direct contrast with the Greek teaching of the psy·kheʹ (soul) as being immaterial, intangible, invisible, and immortal, the Scriptures show that both psy·kheʹ and neʹphesh, as used with reference to earthly creatures, refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal........the Scriptures clearly show that neʹphesh and psy·kheʹ are used to designate the animal creation lower than man. The same terms apply to man."
Soul — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
"The original-language terms (Heb., neʹphesh [נֶפֶשׁ]; Gr., psy·kheʹ [ψυχή]) as used in the Scriptures show “soul” to be a person, an animal, or the life that a person or an animal enjoys.
.......the English word “soul” stem primarily, not from the Hebrew or Christian Greek Scriptures, but from ancient Greek philosophy, actually pagan religious thought. Greek philosopher Plato, for example, quotes Socrates as saying: “The soul, . . . if it departs pure, dragging with it nothing of the body, . . . goes away into that which is like itself, into the invisible, divine, immortal, and wise, and when it arrives there it is happy, freed from error and folly and fear . . . and all the other human ills, and . . . lives in truth through all after time with the gods.”—Phaedo, 80, D, E; 81, A.
In direct contrast with the Greek teaching of the psy·kheʹ (soul) as being immaterial, intangible, invisible, and immortal, the Scriptures show that both psy·kheʹ and neʹphesh, as used with reference to earthly creatures, refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal........the Scriptures clearly show that neʹphesh and psy·kheʹ are used to designate the animal creation lower than man. The same terms apply to man."
Soul — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Relevance to the thread?
Both Peg and JayJayDee will tell you that I disagree with the vast majority of their beliefs.
All three of us have been going at it for numerous years on this very forum.
The WatchTower Society - Gods Channel
Oh and FYI, I didn't cut and paste this.
"Truth Consists of Having the Same Idea About Something That God Has." -Joseph Joubert (1754-1824)
EVIDENCE #1: Witnesses of Jehovah (The Chosen). In Isaiah 43:10, of the NWT we read, "You are my Witnesses," is the utterance of Jehovah, "even my servant whom I have chosen." The Watchtower views verses like this one to justify their sole authority in matters of Faith. In context, however, this verse is referring STRICTLY to Israel as a collective witness to the pagan nations. It is a very wild leap to take a verse referring to Israel as Gods Witness to the pagan nations in the Old Testament times (over 7 Centuries BEFORE the time of Christ), and claim it's fulfillment in a modern-day religious group some 1,900 years AFTER the time of Christ. It is a classic example of "scripture twisting."
EVIDENCE #2: Witnesses of Jehovah (The Name). The New Testament reminds us, tells us, and even commands us to be Witnesses, of Jesus, not Jehovah.
"This Jesus God raised up, and of that WE ALL ARE WITNESSES." (Acts 2:32)
"But God raised Him from the dead, and for many days He appeared to those who had come up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, WHO ARE NOW HIS WITNESSES to the People." (Acts 13:30-31)
And in Acts 1:8, Jesus affirmed to His Disciples: "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and YOU WILL BE WITNESSES OF ME in Jerusalem, in all Ju·de′a and Sa·mar′i·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.”
Were early Christians witnesses of Jehovah or Jesus Christ?
EVIDENCE #3: The Faithful and Discreet Slave. The Watchtower believes it ALONE has been appointed to watch over the affairs on earth. Now if the Watchtower as an organization, that ALONE guides people in their understanding of Scripture, did not come into being until the late 19th century, did God not have a true representative for 1,900 years? And Jesus says, "Behold, I am WITH you ALWAYS, to the end of the age." (Matthew 28:20) This implies that there would ALWAYS be followers of Jesus on earth. How else would He be "with" them "always" if they were not there?
EVIDENCE #4: Interpreting Scripture. The Watchtower Society believes humankind NEEDS them to understand scripture. They Quote Acts 8:30-31: Philip encountered a man reading the book of Isaiah and asked him: "Do you actually know what you are reading?" The man said: "Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guides me?" Philip then sat down with the man to instruct him. Now, this passage absolutely indicate that guidance is sometimes needed to help people understand scripture. But there is NO evidence in this passage of an organization whose views MUST be accepted by all true followers of God. In the Text, however, ONE man (Philip) taught an Ethiopian man DIRECTLY FROM SCRIPTURE (Not from literature from an organization), after which time the Ethiopian confessed his faith in Christ and became baptized (Acts 8:34-38). Significantly, the Bible tells is that "When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of The Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing." (Acts 8:39) Notice, the eunuch did NOT have to join and submit to an organization or to anyone. So, if Scripture ALONE was sufficient for Philip and the eunuch, is not Scripture alone sufficient for us as well?
Oh and FYI, I didn't cut and paste this.
"Truth Consists of Having the Same Idea About Something That God Has." -Joseph Joubert (1754-1824)
EVIDENCE #1: Witnesses of Jehovah (The Chosen). In Isaiah 43:10, of the NWT we read, "You are my Witnesses," is the utterance of Jehovah, "even my servant whom I have chosen." The Watchtower views verses like this one to justify their sole authority in matters of Faith. In context, however, this verse is referring STRICTLY to Israel as a collective witness to the pagan nations. It is a very wild leap to take a verse referring to Israel as Gods Witness to the pagan nations in the Old Testament times (over 7 Centuries BEFORE the time of Christ), and claim it's fulfillment in a modern-day religious group some 1,900 years AFTER the time of Christ. It is a classic example of "scripture twisting."
EVIDENCE #2: Witnesses of Jehovah (The Name). The New Testament reminds us, tells us, and even commands us to be Witnesses, of Jesus, not Jehovah.
"This Jesus God raised up, and of that WE ALL ARE WITNESSES." (Acts 2:32)
"But God raised Him from the dead, and for many days He appeared to those who had come up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, WHO ARE NOW HIS WITNESSES to the People." (Acts 13:30-31)
And in Acts 1:8, Jesus affirmed to His Disciples: "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and YOU WILL BE WITNESSES OF ME in Jerusalem, in all Ju·de′a and Sa·mar′i·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.”
Were early Christians witnesses of Jehovah or Jesus Christ?
EVIDENCE #3: The Faithful and Discreet Slave. The Watchtower believes it ALONE has been appointed to watch over the affairs on earth. Now if the Watchtower as an organization, that ALONE guides people in their understanding of Scripture, did not come into being until the late 19th century, did God not have a true representative for 1,900 years? And Jesus says, "Behold, I am WITH you ALWAYS, to the end of the age." (Matthew 28:20) This implies that there would ALWAYS be followers of Jesus on earth. How else would He be "with" them "always" if they were not there?
EVIDENCE #4: Interpreting Scripture. The Watchtower Society believes humankind NEEDS them to understand scripture. They Quote Acts 8:30-31: Philip encountered a man reading the book of Isaiah and asked him: "Do you actually know what you are reading?" The man said: "Really, how could I ever do so, unless someone guides me?" Philip then sat down with the man to instruct him. Now, this passage absolutely indicate that guidance is sometimes needed to help people understand scripture. But there is NO evidence in this passage of an organization whose views MUST be accepted by all true followers of God. In the Text, however, ONE man (Philip) taught an Ethiopian man DIRECTLY FROM SCRIPTURE (Not from literature from an organization), after which time the Ethiopian confessed his faith in Christ and became baptized (Acts 8:34-38). Significantly, the Bible tells is that "When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of The Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing." (Acts 8:39) Notice, the eunuch did NOT have to join and submit to an organization or to anyone. So, if Scripture ALONE was sufficient for Philip and the eunuch, is not Scripture alone sufficient for us as well?
THE TOP TEN
BTW, didn't copy and paste this one either.
The Ultimate Answers to Prove Biblically that Jesus and Michael the Arc Angel are NOT the Same Person
EVIDENCE #1: Nowhere in the Scriptures does it explicitly state that Jesus is Michael the archangel.
EVIDENCE #2: The Scriptures contrast Jesus with angels specifically showcasing there differences.
"So he [the Son] has become better than the angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs." (Hebrews 1:4)
"For example, to which one of the angels did he ever say: "You are my son; I, today, I have become your father?" (Hebrews 1:5)
EVIDENCE #3: Michael is called "ONE OF the Chief Princes" (Daniel 10:13), which shows he is NOT unique as he is among equals (other Chief Princes). However, by contrast, The Greek word used to describe Jesus in John 3:16 ("For God so Loved the world that He gave his ONLY Son...") is monogenes-which Literally means "unique," "one of a kind." Jesus is NOT one among equals.
EVIDENCE #4: Again, Michael is called "one of the CHIEF PRINCES" (Daniel 10:13), Jesus however, is NEVER called Chief Prince in the scriptures, but instead called KING of KINGS and LORD of LORDS, which is far superior to a mere chief prince.
EVIDENCE #5: If no angel can rule the world (Hebrews 2:5) how can Jesus be an angel when He is to be RULER of Gods Kingdom (Genesis 49:10, 2 Samuel 7:16, Psalm 2:6, Daniel 7:13-14, Luke 1:32-33, Matthew 2:1-2; 9:35, Revelation 19:16)
EVIDENCE #6: If no angel can be called Gods Son (Hebrews 1:5), the very FACT that Jesus IS the SON of God makes Him not an angel.
EVIDENCE #7: The Scripture tells us that Jesus is "The same yesterday, today, and forever" (Hebrews 13:8), so He could not have been an angel, them a human, and then Recreated as an angel again.
EVIDENCE #8: When disputing the body of Moses with satan (Jude 9), Michael could NOT Rebuke him in his own authority, while by contrast, Jesus could and DID Rebuke satan In His own authority. And if Jesus, as Jehovahs Witnesses claim was given the power and authority to create everything, which means He created and had authority over the angels, including satan, but he still could not rebuke satan, means there is a huge hole in the Jehovahs Witnesses theory.
EVIDENCE #9: In Jude 9, Michael said to satan, "The LORD rebuke you." The Greek word for Lord is Kurios. It is the standard word for "Lord" in the New Testament. It is a direct parellel to YHWY or Jehovah in the Old Testament. And while Jesus is called Lord (Kurios) many times in the New Testament, Michael the angel is NEVER called Kurios.
EVIDENCE #10: Jesus has flesh and bone while Michael is a Spirit without flesh and bone. Jesus was Resurrected in a BODY which He still has.
Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." They replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" But the temple he had spoken of was HIS BODY." (John 2:19-21)
"... He was not abandoned to Hades, nor His flesh see corruption" (Acts 2:31). Why didn't His flesh "see corruption?" Because He was raised in a material, fleshly body.
CRITICS: The first scripture a critic will point to is 1 Thessalonians 4:16:
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first."
There are several things wrong with this theory.
EVIDENCE #1: it ignores All the Evidence Above
EVIDENCE #2: Nowhere in this Scripture verse does it say Jesus is Michael.
EVIDENCE #3: When the Scripture says THE archangel, it doesn't say there's only one. It is one of identification as a well-known archangel instead of a limitation as the ONLY archangel. As Michael is described as ONE OF the Chief Princes (Daniel 10:13). Much like if there were 5 policemen, and you wanted to show which one saved your life, you'd say, "THE police officer Michael," identifying by their name, which one of the same rank (policemen/chief princes) saved you.
Evidence #4: If reference to an archangels voice makes Jesus an angel, by the very same logic, Jesus having Gods Trumpet makes Him God.
The Debate is Over. Thank You
BTW, didn't copy and paste this one either.
The Ultimate Answers to Prove Biblically that Jesus and Michael the Arc Angel are NOT the Same Person
EVIDENCE #1: Nowhere in the Scriptures does it explicitly state that Jesus is Michael the archangel.
EVIDENCE #2: The Scriptures contrast Jesus with angels specifically showcasing there differences.
"So he [the Son] has become better than the angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs." (Hebrews 1:4)
"For example, to which one of the angels did he ever say: "You are my son; I, today, I have become your father?" (Hebrews 1:5)
EVIDENCE #3: Michael is called "ONE OF the Chief Princes" (Daniel 10:13), which shows he is NOT unique as he is among equals (other Chief Princes). However, by contrast, The Greek word used to describe Jesus in John 3:16 ("For God so Loved the world that He gave his ONLY Son...") is monogenes-which Literally means "unique," "one of a kind." Jesus is NOT one among equals.
EVIDENCE #4: Again, Michael is called "one of the CHIEF PRINCES" (Daniel 10:13), Jesus however, is NEVER called Chief Prince in the scriptures, but instead called KING of KINGS and LORD of LORDS, which is far superior to a mere chief prince.
EVIDENCE #5: If no angel can rule the world (Hebrews 2:5) how can Jesus be an angel when He is to be RULER of Gods Kingdom (Genesis 49:10, 2 Samuel 7:16, Psalm 2:6, Daniel 7:13-14, Luke 1:32-33, Matthew 2:1-2; 9:35, Revelation 19:16)
EVIDENCE #6: If no angel can be called Gods Son (Hebrews 1:5), the very FACT that Jesus IS the SON of God makes Him not an angel.
EVIDENCE #7: The Scripture tells us that Jesus is "The same yesterday, today, and forever" (Hebrews 13:8), so He could not have been an angel, them a human, and then Recreated as an angel again.
EVIDENCE #8: When disputing the body of Moses with satan (Jude 9), Michael could NOT Rebuke him in his own authority, while by contrast, Jesus could and DID Rebuke satan In His own authority. And if Jesus, as Jehovahs Witnesses claim was given the power and authority to create everything, which means He created and had authority over the angels, including satan, but he still could not rebuke satan, means there is a huge hole in the Jehovahs Witnesses theory.
EVIDENCE #9: In Jude 9, Michael said to satan, "The LORD rebuke you." The Greek word for Lord is Kurios. It is the standard word for "Lord" in the New Testament. It is a direct parellel to YHWY or Jehovah in the Old Testament. And while Jesus is called Lord (Kurios) many times in the New Testament, Michael the angel is NEVER called Kurios.
EVIDENCE #10: Jesus has flesh and bone while Michael is a Spirit without flesh and bone. Jesus was Resurrected in a BODY which He still has.
Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." They replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" But the temple he had spoken of was HIS BODY." (John 2:19-21)
"... He was not abandoned to Hades, nor His flesh see corruption" (Acts 2:31). Why didn't His flesh "see corruption?" Because He was raised in a material, fleshly body.
CRITICS: The first scripture a critic will point to is 1 Thessalonians 4:16:
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first."
There are several things wrong with this theory.
EVIDENCE #1: it ignores All the Evidence Above
EVIDENCE #2: Nowhere in this Scripture verse does it say Jesus is Michael.
EVIDENCE #3: When the Scripture says THE archangel, it doesn't say there's only one. It is one of identification as a well-known archangel instead of a limitation as the ONLY archangel. As Michael is described as ONE OF the Chief Princes (Daniel 10:13). Much like if there were 5 policemen, and you wanted to show which one saved your life, you'd say, "THE police officer Michael," identifying by their name, which one of the same rank (policemen/chief princes) saved you.
Evidence #4: If reference to an archangels voice makes Jesus an angel, by the very same logic, Jesus having Gods Trumpet makes Him God.
The Debate is Over. Thank You
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
What is Paul is addressing in the verse?
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
Is this the passage you refer to?
Hebrews 6:1-2
1Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, 2 instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so.
The author is speaking to Christians. He is not telling them that they should depart from those fundamental teachings. They are, after all, the first principles and foundations of our faith. Paul suggests we progress beyond them, to a more extensive and thorough knowledge of Christian principles.
The goal of all Christians is absolute perfection, even as God is perfect. Jesus said,
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect" (Matthew 5:48).
Unattainable in the ultimate sense, perfection is nevertheless the goal of Christians. All should strive toward it.
I think that with some people, we need to revisit those fundamental teachings because they have not been taught by their leaders those basic principles. As mature Christians, our focus of study should be how to become perfect as He is perfect.
My $0.02 worth.
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