Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[Pegg]

Your telling me all this like I don't know what JW beliefs are.

You were just trying to say that how one feels about the GB is irrelevant for getting baptized, and I was telling you that that's not true.

I think you took my comment the wrong way.... but its ok, that can happen when you jump into a conversation about one thing and turn it into something else.

 

[JFish123]

Let's be real and Truthful The pagans believed in a Triad of gods. They were polytheists. That means they believed in three main gods (Triad) who were completely separate beings. And they ruled over the rest of the gods.
The Trinity is 1 God with three persons-The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit that are equal in essence and nature as One God. And they rule over No other gods as there's only one God. Unlike JW where there are at least two (The God and a god) so the Trinity has less gods then The Watchtower. We have One-The Trinity. And the Bible clearly states in the Trinity, so it's not from "outside pagan religions."
For example, Peter refers to the saints who have been chosen "according to the foreknowledge of God The Father." (1 Peter 1:2) when Jesus made a post resurrection appearance to Thomas, the disciple worshipfully responded by addressing Him, "My Lord and MY GOD." (John 20:28) The Father also said of the Son, "Your throne O God, is forever and ever." In Acts 5:3-4, we are told that lying to the Holy Spirit is equivalent to lying to God. Peter said,"Ananias, why has satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit,,, You have not lied to men but to God."
Besides being called God, each of the three persons are seen on different occasions to possess the attributes of deity. Note the following examples:
All three persons possess the attribute of omnipresence:
The Father (1 Kings 8:27)
The Son (Matthew 28:20)
The Holy Spirit (psalm 139:7)
All three have the attribute of omniscience:
The Father (psalm 147:5)
The Son (John 16:30)
The Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:10)
All three have the attribute of omnipotence:
The Father (Psalm 135:6)
The Son (Matthew 28:18)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 15:19)
Holiness is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Revelation 15:4)
The Son (Acts 3:14)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 1:4)
Eternity is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Psalm 90:2)
The Son (Micah 5:2, John 1:4)
The Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:14)
Each if the three persons is described as the Truth:
The Father (John 7:28)
The Son (Revelation 3:7)
The Holy Spirit (1 John 5:6)
Each of the three is called Lord (Luke 2:11, Romans 10:12, 2 Corinthians 3:17) each is called Everlasting (Romans 16:26, Hebrews 9:14, Revelation 22:13) each is called Almighty (Genesis 17:1, Romans 15:19, Revelation 1:8) and each is called Powerful (Jeremiah 32:17, Zechariah 4:6, Hebrews 1:3)
Can any one other than God have the Attributes of God?
In addition to having the attributes of deity, each of the three persons were involved in doing the works of deity. For example, all three were involved in the creation of the world:
The Father (Genesis 2:7, Psalm 102:25, 1 Corinthians 8:6)
The Son (John 1:3, Colossians 1;16, Hebrews 1:2)
The Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:2, Job 33:4, Psalm 104:30)
They were also involved in the incarnation and resurrection but I won't go into those verses as I think these are good for now.
Also to mention, that the pagans taught the concept of a flood that killed most of humankind and the concept of a messiah like figure named Tammuz who was allegedly resurrected. Are those concepts false just because pagans taught remotely similar accounts?
And if you still don't understand the Trinity, does it mean it's not True? I mean do you think it is possible for human beings to know everything about God? If yes, please explain Isaiah 55:8-9, Romans 11:33, and 1 Corinthians 13:12.
We should not reject a doctrine simply because we cannot fully comprehend it. Especially since it's in the Bible

 

[averageJOE]

Our elders are not paid...so I dont have any concerns there.

The money we donate to our organsiation is for the printing and distributing of bibles and literature around the globe. The fact that we distribute and teach in over 2000 languages is evidence enough that our money is going toward the work that we put it to.

You should really follow the money more closely.
The Watchtower Money Machine - The Watchtower Files | The Watchtower Files

How the Watchtower Was Financed - HiddenMysteries Spiritual Studies

The Watchtower Way of Laundering Money - HiddenMysteries Spiritual Studies

But you know what's the best part? (Or more accurately, the worst part?) Is that the Watchtower shamelessly tells its followers how to sign over their wills, trusts, bank accounts, and real estate to them. Do You Find Joy in “the Privilege of Kindly Giving”? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[kjw47]

Ohhh! But that is dishonest!!!

The way you feel about the Governing Body is completely and totally relevant. One must believe that the Governing Body are directly appointed by god himself, and hold that belief throughout. They won't baptize someone who doesn't believe so, and if you loose that belief you're dissfellowshipped. How one feels about the Governing Body is everything.

Luke 10:16--- one had better accept Jesus' anointed teachers. If they reject them, its like rejecting Jesus and God as well. A JW doesn't feel the GB are Jesus' appointed teachers-we know 100% for sure they are.

 

[kjw47]

I think this might be true. All the JWs have given me up for lost (so far as I have not heard a word from them now for I think three years). The reason why is they know I won't believe in the governing body. So they are looking for people who will believe in the governing body. I never did, but I did not know that is what they are doing. When I discovered that is what they are doing, I left. I am happy now. Aren't you glad for me?

Luke 10:16--the true followers gladly accept Jesus' appointed teachers.

 

[Wharton]

Luke 10:16--- one had better accept Jesus' anointed teachers. If they reject them, its like rejecting Jesus and God as well. A JW doesn't feel the GB are Jesus' appointed teachers-we know 100% for sure they are.

It doesn't work for self-appointed teachers. Unless the GB members have apostolic succession or are working miracles, you're out of luck. You have false teachers.

 

[kjw47]

Let's be real and Truthful The pagans believed in a Triad of gods. They were polytheists. That means they believed in three main gods (Triad) who were completely separate beings. And they ruled over the rest of the gods.
The Trinity is 1 God with three persons-The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit that are equal in essence and nature as One God. And they rule over No other gods as there's only one God. Unlike JW where there are at least two (The God and a god) so the Trinity has less gods then The Watchtower. We have One-The Trinity. And the Bible clearly states in the Trinity, so it's not from "outside pagan religions."
For example, Peter refers to the saints who have been chosen "according to the foreknowledge of God The Father." (1 Peter 1:2) when Jesus made a post resurrection appearance to Thomas, the disciple worshipfully responded by addressing Him, "My Lord and MY GOD." (John 20:28) The Father also said of the Son, "Your throne O God, is forever and ever." In Acts 5:3-4, we are told that lying to the Holy Spirit is equivalent to lying to God. Peter said,"Ananias, why has satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit,,, You have not lied to men but to God."
Besides being called God, each of the three persons are seen on different occasions to possess the attributes of deity. Note the following examples:
All three persons possess the attribute of omnipresence:
The Father (1 Kings 8:27)
The Son (Matthew 28:20)
The Holy Spirit (psalm 139:7)
All three have the attribute of omniscience:
The Father (psalm 147:5)
The Son (John 16:30)
The Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:10)
All three have the attribute of omnipotence:
The Father (Psalm 135:6)
The Son (Matthew 28:18)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 15:19)
Holiness is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Revelation 15:4)
The Son (Acts 3:14)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 1:4)
Eternity is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Psalm 90:2)
The Son (Micah 5:2, John 1:4)
The Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:14)
Each if the three persons is described as the Truth:
The Father (John 7:28)
The Son (Revelation 3:7)
The Holy Spirit (1 John 5:6)
Each of the three is called Lord (Luke 2:11, Romans 10:12, 2 Corinthians 3:17) each is called Everlasting (Romans 16:26, Hebrews 9:14, Revelation 22:13) each is called Almighty (Genesis 17:1, Romans 15:19, Revelation 1:8) and each is called Powerful (Jeremiah 32:17, Zechariah 4:6, Hebrews 1:3)
Can any one other than God have the Attributes of God?
In addition to having the attributes of deity, each of the three persons were involved in doing the works of deity. For example, all three were involved in the creation of the world:
The Father (Genesis 2:7, Psalm 102:25, 1 Corinthians 8:6)
The Son (John 1:3, Colossians 1;16, Hebrews 1:2)
The Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:2, Job 33:4, Psalm 104:30)
They were also involved in the incarnation and resurrection but I won't go into those verses as I think these are good for now.
Also to mention, that the pagans taught the concept of a flood that killed most of humankind and the concept of a messiah like figure named Tammuz who was allegedly resurrected. Are those concepts false just because pagans taught remotely similar accounts?
And if you still don't understand the Trinity, does it mean it's not True? I mean do you think it is possible for human beings to know everything about God? If yes, please explain Isaiah 55:8-9, Romans 11:33, and 1 Corinthians 13:12.
We should not reject a doctrine simply because we cannot fully comprehend it. Especially since it's in the Bible

Here is Jesus sitting at the right hand of power, elevated to a higher position--Rev 3:12---- believe Jesus.
How can one be elevated to a higher position than that of being God?--They cannot-- the only reasonable explanation is --The chief prince was appointed--KING.

 

[kjw47]

It doesn't work for self-appointed teachers. Unless the GB members have apostolic succession or are working miracles, you're out of luck. You have false teachers.

They are not self appointed--Jesus appointed his real teachers.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

A disfellowshipped person is always welcome, but nobody will greet him or her.

Sounds like they are allowed to come to the KH, but are not welcome. If they are welcome at the KH, they would be welcomed when they came.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

They are not self appointed--Jesus appointed his real teachers.

1Jo 4:1 (ESVST) 1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

How did you test the spirit to see it it is from God?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

How can one be elevated to a higher position than that of being God?--They cannot

Eph 1:18-21 (ESVST) , 19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might 20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Who is this verse speaking of?

Isa 45:23 (ESVST) 23 By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: 'To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.

Who is this verse speaking of?

Phi 2:8-11 (ESVST) . 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Does it say, "above every name except one"? Does it say, "above every name except Jehovah"? Doesn't the word "EVERY" include "EVERY" name?

Eph 1:19-21 (ESVST) might 20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

What does "ALL" mean? Does it mean all but one? If "ALL doesn't include "ALL", then you can't say "ALL", you'd have to say, "far above "MOST" rule and authority and power and dominion." The same with the name. You'd have to say, "above most names that are named" instead of "EVERY" name that is named. If God's name was that important for us to know and keep and say, why would He give Jesus a more important and powerful name than His own?

 

[kjw47]

1Jo 4:1 (ESVST) 1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

How did you test the spirit to see it it is from God?

That is simple--there is but a single test--by learning and applying every teaching Jesus gave--I did that--and its 100% for sure the JW teachers are correct.

 

[kjw47]

Eph 1:18-21 (ESVST) , 19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might 20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

Yes every name but--JEHOVAH. Psalm 83:18
Exactly--Christ didn't do the things--Jehovah did all of it through Jesus( Acts 2:22)

 

[james2ko]

That is simple--there is but a single test--by learning and applying every teaching Jesus gave--I did that--and its 100% for sure the JW teachers are correct.

100% correct? Perhaps you'd like to pick up where Pegg left some unanswered questions, again:

Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God?? | Page 176 | ReligiousForums.com

The questions were posted in Post 3508. You can easily backtrack on the username links to get the context. I'll be waiting. (jeopardy music playing)

 

[djhwoodwerks]

That is simple--there is but a single test--by learning and applying every teaching Jesus gave--I did that--and its 100% for sure the JW teachers are correct.

I have learned and I apply Jesus' teaching in my life, and I'm 100% sure the Holy Spirit is correct. I didn't need the GB to teach me anything.

 

[Wharton]

That is simple--there is but a single test--by learning and applying every teaching Jesus gave--I did that--and its 100% for sure the JW teachers are correct.

JW Jesus is a blasphemer, plain and simple. There's no rocket scientist or bible teacher needed to figure that one out.

It's very simple. Jesus replaces the object of thanks in the Passover todah/Last Supper with himself-"Do this in memory of Me."

Wait a minute JW Jesus, you dare to replace the object of thanks in the Passover todah, who is Jehovah/God, with yourself? Blasphemy!!!. A man can't do that. The JW teachers are wrong about the nature of Jesus.

Unless Jesus is God, Jesus is committing blasphemy ( a sin) and is not a perfect sacrifice. The apostles are participating in idolatry by replacing Jehovah (God) with Jesus ( a man) as the object of thanks.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Since we do not really differentiate spiritual family from fleshly family, as Jesus said, our mother and brothers and sisters are those who share our faith....not those who are merely related by birth. (Matt 12:47-50)

Mat 12:48-50 (ESVST) ?" 49 And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, " Here are my mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

That verse says nothing about sharing the same faith, it says whoever "DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER".

What is the will of His Father you ask?

Jn 6:38-40 (ESVST) . 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."

1Th 4:1-8 (ESVST) 2 For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, 5 not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you. 7 For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness. 8 Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you.

1Th 5:14-18 (ESVST) . 15 See that no one repays anyone evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to everyone. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

1Pe 2:14-17 (ESVST)15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. 16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover- up for evil, but living as servants of God. 17 Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor. (FREE! NOT BOUND BY 1700+ man made rules. God only gave us 10)

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Yes every name but--JEHOVAH. Psalm 83:18

?? That verse just says "Whose name is the Lord".

Psa 83:18 (ESVST) 18 that they may know that you alone, whose name is the Lord, are the Most High over all the earth.

Eph 1:21 (ESVST) 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

That verse says, "above "EVERY" name that is named". How do you get "every name "EXCEPT" Jehovah"? ABOVE EVERY NAME THAT IS NAMED! That excludes no name! Is Jehovah's name named? Can you say "EVERY" and not include "EVERY"? "EVERY" day I wake up, that means "EVERY" day, I wake up. You can't make that verse say what you want it to say!

 

[kjw47]

100% correct? Perhaps you'd like to pick up where Pegg left some unanswered questions, again:

Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God?? | Page 176 | ReligiousForums.com

The questions were posted in Post 3508. You can easily backtrack on the username links to get the context. I'll be waiting. (jeopardy music playing)

If you have a question please ask it.