How are you not doing exactly what you are claiming others who don't believe in the Bible are? Are you not interpreting things to fit the agenda you wish to follow? Christ never said you could eat pork, etc. But you choose to believe he did. Why would you hang on to one verse to be upheld while rejecting the rest as irrevelant? Even a child could see the inconsistancy here.
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ISSUE OF HOMOSEXUALITY
- Thread starter Monk Of Reason
- Start date
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Don't forget that alcohol was involved, which essentially means he was raped by his daughters. Where was the divine wrath and punishment over that sort of sexual abuse?
Marisa
Well-Known Member
Ah but you forget, rape didn't make god's top 10 hits list either.
I've pointed that out REPEATEDLY about the Ten Commandments that others refer to as what are things that deity does not want us to do.
Rape is suspiciously ignored as a crime throughout much of the Abrahamic traditions.
Thank you for bringing that up here.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
There are a lot of things I find horrifying that god appears okay with. Genocide makes that list, too.
No one? Proof or just your opinion?
Monk Of Reason
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All evidence points to an inability to change ones sexual orientation. It is you who has the burden of proof that the treatment works after it has been shown not to work repeatedly.
Not if they are true Christians. As 1 Corinthians 6:11 affirms; "And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God." Such a person completely changes their thinking and desires, IMO. This applies to other unrighteous conduct, such as adultery, stealing, drunkenness, etc. in addition to homosexuality.
I didn't make the statement that "no one changes their [sexual] orientation." The burden of proof rests with the the one who makes the claim.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
You never answered whether you think celibacy equals changed sexual orientation. In other words, what orientation do celibate people possess? Ignoring questions that expose the holes in your "logic" is an answer in itself.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
No True Scotsman is a logical fallacy. But it is more convenient to be able to say that folks like Gene Robinson aren't true christians because they don't behave the way you think they should, despite being a Bishop in the episcopalian church.
Monk Of Reason
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Provide evidence. please. There has been no clinical evidence of anyone changing their sexuality after religious indoctrinations. But what we do have is this.
The Lies and Dangers of Efforts to Change Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity | Resources | Human Rights Campaign
Why Gay Conversion Therapy Is Harmful
Conversion Therapy Survey Reveals Real Harm In Gay 'Cure'
and from a Christian source if you like The Damaging Practice of Conversion or Reparative Therapy | Faith in America
Monk Of Reason
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And we have met that burden. It is you who claims that it can be changed who now meets the burden.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
All you need is a god who destroys a town because it refused to rape a virgin to come into to your heart and suddenly you won't be gay anymore. Sounds legit!
Being celibate does not change a person's sexual urges. They simply choose to abstain from marriage for religious or other reasons, IMO. (Matthew 19:12) I didn't respond because I didn't understand your point, and still don't.You never answered whether you think celibacy equals changed sexual orientation. In other words, what orientation do celibate people possess? Ignoring questions that expose the holes in your "logic" is an answer in itself.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
Yet you equate people who abstain from sex as having changed sexual orientation. How many priests do you think would be gay if they weren't priests? And, do you think religious intolerance of homosexuality such as you have displayed here has any effect on whether people choose to express their sexual orientation openly, or "stay in the closet" instead? Are you being loving and kind when you tell people they should not expect to have romantic love in their lives if they can't find it the way you want them to?
The standard for being a true Christian is set by Jesus Christ and his Father, not me. I think you cannot be a practicing homosexual and a Christian, because that is what the Bible says. "Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality...will not inherit God's kingdom." (1 Corinthians 6:9,10)
Marisa
Well-Known Member
Given that the god you worship kills people for not raping a virgin in the moral paragon story YOU posted (Lot) what rational reason can you give for why anyone should suppose this god is equipped to asses morality?
Would it be loving or kind to hide the truth for fear someone may take offense or accuse you of "religious intolerance"? I think the Bible accurately foretold the situation today amongst so many professed "Christians". 2 Timothy 4:3,4 says; "For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled. They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories."
Of course, that is not what happened, but deserves discussion in it's own thread, IMO.