Dating

[Sunstone]

The devil is in the details with me, Deidre. It all depends on how they "carry their religion". For instance, whether they are open to discussing it with intellectual honesty, or whether the are light hearted about it. If their religiosity and their attitude towards it strikes me as sane, I wouldn't mind dating them. Or even marrying them.

 

[Typist]

haha okay. This works I'd say in all aspects, except for religion.

To explore the other side of what I shared in my first post, a divide between hyper-philosophical and a-philosophical can be challenging too.

We've learned to manage it here, but you should hear some of our conversations.

I'll be blabbing on about the meaning of meaning and the nature of nature, and she'll nod and reply that there's a squirrel cage she needs to clean and did those short she buy me fit?

And so I'll say yes in agreement to the shorts question, while expounding further on the inevitable inherent conflict within conflict itself, which will draw from her a response about how many salad bowls are necessary so that we'll always have one handy.

Good point I'll agree, I like salad bowls too, which reminds me that consumption of material entities by intelligent life forms may not be necessary within the virtual reality realms which will be the focus of future civilizations.

It goes on like this for days, did you want the entire transcript?

 

[Deidre]

To explore the other side of what I shared in my first post, a divide between hyper-philosophical and a-philosophical can be challenging too.

We've learned to manage it here, but you should hear some of our conversations.

I'll be blabbing on about the meaning of meaning and the nature of nature, and she'll nod and reply that there's a squirrel cage she needs to clean and did those short she buy me fit?

And so I'll say yes in agreement to the shorts question, while expounding further on the inevitable inherent conflict within conflict itself, which will draw from her a response about how many salad bowls are necessary so that we'll always have one handy.

Good point I'll agree, I like salad bowls too, which reminds me that consumption of material entities by intelligent life forms may not be necessary within the virtual reality realms which will be the focus of future civilizations.

It goes on like this for days, did you want the entire transcript?

and this is working for you both? lol

 

[Deidre]

thanks for your thoughts, all...
interesting.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

thanks for your thoughts, all...
interesting.

Yeesh! I'm glad I missed getting involved in this thread! Great laughs, everyone!
And it's only been 15 years since I last dated anyone except my wife...

 

[Cephus]

I haven't dated for a very, very long time (my wife would disapprove), but I know that I wouldn't date a strong theist at all. The whole point of dating is to find a life-long partner and you do that by finding someone whose interests closely match your own. I cannot respect anyone who is religious, hence I could never be with anyone who was religious. That's far from the only criteria but it is an important one. I also couldn't be with someone who was racist, among many other things. Intellect, rationality, critical thinking and skepticism are all important to me, I found a woman that had all of those things and more, that's why we've been married for more than 22 years so far.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Based on previous experience I wouldn't date a theist or a new-ager or quite a number of other things.

 

[Deidre]

Where I live, you assume everyone you meet is religious, anyone who limited themselves to dating atheists would find it pretty difficult. The word atheist also has strong negative connotations, so I tend to say that 'I'm not really religious' if someone asks. Religion is something that can't be ignored though in the long term.

As for serious relationships, the question is really how religious they are, what their religion is, and their attitude to my lack of religion.

Mixed faith marriages are not allowed here, so both people need to be of the same religion. I have no problem, in theory, converting to any faith for the purpose of marriage as long as it is understood that I am doing this purely for legal reasons and I don't actually believe in it at all. If they expected me to become religious then I would not agree.

Another major issue is children. I know people who have broken off engagements because they couldn't agree about their future child's religious education. These people were very anti-theist though and weren't willing to compromise.

This is the thing that causes me the most difficulties though. I wouldn't mind my wife raising the child in her faith, but I would like them to have a rounded understanding of belief and lack thereof. There are also limits to the kind of levels of religiosity that I could tolerate.

People I have dated tend to be Muslim or Christian (both Protestant and Catholic), and I have to admit I would have less problem with Christianity, although some of the Protestants here are a bit too 'evangelical' for my liking. Would be most comfortable with a Buddhist, but they're like 2% here so it's unlikely.

Ultimately, if I was in love, there would have to be some pretty serious differences before religion became a relationship breaker for me. My lack of religion is the thing that is likelier to be problematic in the long term.

I appreciate your honesty, as everyone's here as well.
I think it's easy to tell one's self that 'it depends on how religious the person is,' when it comes to an atheist thinking about dating someone who is religious. Even if someone is nominally religious, if the relationship takes a serious turn, that is typically when the religious person starts asserting their faith views. About four years ago, I left Christianity. And by that I mean, I was officially finished with the entire belief system. For about two years, I felt a sense of renewed freedom and joy having left Christianity, but wouldn't say then that I identified as an atheist. I was dating theists at the time, and then one day, I felt like the path was just leading in a natural way, to atheism. I've always had atheists as friends more so than religious people, and being introduced to single men who are atheists hasn't been an issue, really. I tend to know ''going in to'' the dating experience with some guys, that they are atheists. Most are life long atheists, and never had to deal with deconversion. But, over the past say 15 months or so, I was struggling to 'make sense' of atheism....and felt like I was missing something. After exploring different faiths, I've come back to the same point...and that is atheism. I share that because when you have worked hard on escaping a delusion, you don't want to give your heart to someone who is lost in that same delusion that you left. And there are a lot of Christians out there, who don't really like what their faith teaches, and try to twist and turn the faith to mean something it doesn't...yet still call themselves 'Christian.' I just find the whole thing entirely too confusing to be bothered with, anymore...and such people will confuse you if you let them into your personal life. I don't want to take a fine tooth comb and go through the Bible, in hopes that a Christian zealot enlightens me. I wasn't really like that as a Christian, but there are many who are not content living their faith, but suggest to others to join in with them. That is something that dating strictly atheists, will eliminate from my life.

Your last line ...you say ''pretty serious differences'' before religion became a relationship breaker...but, to me, a religious person whom I'm in love with, trying to convert me ...would be pretty serious. I think people underestimate how not so trivial it really is.

You bring up a good point about child raising. I don't plan on marrying or having kids, but your point is very valid...that is often when a couple finds out...''oops, this isn't going to work'' If only they had married people who shared in their beliefs...they would have avoided that.

Thanks for sharing this here.

 

[Deidre]

I haven't dated for a very, very long time (my wife would disapprove), but I know that I wouldn't date a strong theist at all. The whole point of dating is to find a life-long partner and you do that by finding someone whose interests closely match your own. I cannot respect anyone who is religious, hence I could never be with anyone who was religious. That's far from the only criteria but it is an important one. I also couldn't be with someone who was racist, among many other things. Intellect, rationality, critical thinking and skepticism are all important to me, I found a woman that had all of those things and more, that's why we've been married for more than 22 years so far.

That's awesome! I'm happy for you.
I wouldn't say that the point of dating is to find a life long partner, but....that's a topic for another time.
Thanks for adding your comment here.

 

[Deidre]

I'd date someone with religious beliefs so long as she agreed to keep it to herself, and, later, not inflict it on any future possible children.

You say that here...but beware of what I've mentioned above. Remember where you read it......

That's how I read your post. I've dated lots of believers and to a one, the relationships all broke up over other reasons. I could not see myself with a devout believer, because my non-belief is not something I am willing to pretend about. I had no intention of raising my kid in religion (which I'm not doing) and I wasn't excited about getting married in a church (which worked out, because none of the churches where I lived in the south were willing to marry an atheist). When I married my husband, his dog tags said "roman catholic" (they now say a6nostic) but he wasn't practicing and if you asked him if he believed in god, he'd go "meh". It took him quite a while being with me (we celebrate 18 years this fall) me before he was willing to say "no", and I'm sure his family blames his lack of belief on me, though he'd tell you he hasn't believed since he was a kid (neither has his only brother and I had nothing to do with that, either).

AW! This is a really nice story, like a true love story. I'm glad it worked out for you both. And hey...your husband is seeing the light (the real light)

Oh crap, now I'm REALLY confused! No wonder I stopped dating.

Well, if he's a fifty year old guy trying to meet girls, maybe he should try the police station. Oh dear, now I'm not going to be able to date him either.

Should I become single again someday, I already have my plan all figured out. I'm gonna hang out with the hot "girls" down at the Alzheimer's Club. That way, when I say a bunch of clueless dumb stuff that's supposedly funny (see this thread for details) they won't remember, and I can say it all again.

Ok, ok, since I have now sufficiently proven that I am a great comodian, and I'll leave this innocent thread in peace. Good luck out there!

LOL, Typist...you have a funny sense of humor.

 

[Typist]

and this is working for you both? lol

Excellent question Deidre, not joking now.

Here's why it works. In life generally, the content of conversations rarely matters.

Talking is mostly a way to pass energy back and forth. The words are usually far less important than the emotions behind them. If we are talking to someone because we want to be with them and share each other's energy, that motivation is the real conversation.

Thus, I'm not sure the degree to which theist/atheist issue may matter. I suppose it depends less on the beliefs than our relationship with those beliefs. If our beliefs are more important to us than the other person, our partner will see that pretty quickly, and this is probably not a good development.

Not that there is a "one true way" but there is something to be said for differences. As example, it makes our marriage stronger for us to see we can overcome the gap between "hyper-philosophical" and "a-philosophical". Any challenge met and overcome strengthens the relationship.

What helps for us is that we are both RELENTLESSLY focused on our areas of interest. So while the interests are sometimes different, we share the relentlessly part.

Anyway, never mind about all that. The secret to a good relationship is actually quite simple, marry a saint. That's what I did. Worked perfectly.

My wife spends almost every waking minute either serving the ladies who are her massage clients, or tending to orphaned baby animals, or maybe even serving me. That's the ticket. Find somebody who is so busy serving others that they don't have time for philosophies. In other words...

DON'T MARRY SOMEBODY LIKE ME YOU FOOLS!!!!

 

[freethinker44]

Nope, religion's a deal breaker in a relationship for me. I actually seriously considered divorcing my wife because she wanted to have our kids baptized. She isn't even religious either, she just thought it would be a pretty ceremony.

 

[Mequa]

My girlfriend is a nominal liberal Christian. I have no problem agreeing to disagree about the existence of some kind of deity, since she doesn't believe I'm going to Hell or should agree with her.

Where I would definitely draw the line though is with a fundie.

 

[Deidre]

lol at the term 'fundie' that always makes me laugh

 

[HonestJoe]

I have seen friends of mine who are married, and one is an atheist or a non-Christian, the other is Christian...and it's hard on them. Largely, because religion often decides a person's worldview, depending on how devout he/she is...

I think that's a little short sighted, maybe even bigoted. An individual's fundamental worldview influences their beliefs at least as much as the other way around and that's not necessarily any less true of atheists too. A person being identified as religious, even as a specific religion still holds open the possibility of a vast range of beliefs, characteristics and lifestyle. The idea of automatically excluding such a wide group of potential romantic partners just seems wrong to me.

Clearly there can be conflicts and difficulties but that's true of pretty much every relationship on countless different grounds. You'll never find someone who agrees with you on everything (and if you did, it'd probably get quite boring). Maybe if religion (or lack thereof) is a driving force in your life it would be a more significant factor but even then, dismissing the possibility out of hand makes little sense.

Anyway, some of us can't afford to be picky.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I came out as an atheist during my current relationship but I think that it wouldnt bother me what religion someone belongs to as long as they dont try to convert me or push it on me. Might be awkward dating a christian though (because I am gay).

Always been plenty of Gay Christians
But now most have come out.

 

[Deidre]

I think that's a little short sighted, maybe even bigoted. An individual's fundamental worldview influences their beliefs at least as much as the other way around and that's not necessarily any less true of atheists too. A person being identified as religious, even as a specific religion still holds open the possibility of a vast range of beliefs, characteristics and lifestyle. The idea of automatically excluding such a wide group of potential romantic partners just seems wrong to me.

Clearly there can be conflicts and difficulties but that's true of pretty much every relationship on countless different grounds. You'll never find someone who agrees with you on everything (and if you did, it'd probably get quite boring). Maybe if religion (or lack thereof) is a driving force in your life it would be a more significant factor but even then, dismissing the possibility out of hand makes little sense.

Anyway, some of us can't afford to be picky.

lol! a bigot

Nah, I just don’t want religion in my life anymore. I have religious friends, but when it comes to intimacy, dating, etc…being with a religious type doesn’t interest me. In a perfect world, most religious people would keep their views to themselves. I actually wasn’t much of a ‘preacher’ when I was a Christian. But, many people feel it is their God given duty to preach and recruit members to their way of thinking. I’d rather eliminate the possibility of this in my dating life, if I can help it. I hear what you’re saying though.

 

[HonestJoe]

Nah, I just don’t want religion in my life anymore.

That's your issue, not that of religious people. It seems your background has given you a negative opinion of the religious (probably Christians particularly) and I'd suggest you look in to addressing that rather than reflecting your problems on to a whole load of other people.

The fact is that most religious people are perfectly reasonable and don't preach and recruit anything like as much as you seem to imagine. Some will but that can be true of all sorts of other groups. Will you refuse to date vegetarians, environmentalists, cyclists or, of course, atheists because some people in those groups would try to push their beliefs on to you?

We're all individuals, not stereotypes and you won't get far, in dating or life, until you can recognise that in everyone.

 

[Deidre]

That's your issue, not that of religious people. It seems your background has given you a negative opinion of the religious (probably Christians particularly) and I'd suggest you look in to addressing that rather than reflecting your problems on to a whole load of other people.

The fact is that most religious people are perfectly reasonable and don't preach and recruit anything like as much as you seem to imagine. Some will but that can be true of all sorts of other groups. Will you refuse to date vegetarians, environmentalists, cyclists or, of course, atheists because some people in those groups would try to push their beliefs on to you?

We're all individuals, not stereotypes and you won't get far, in dating or life, until you can recognise that in everyone.

Secular topics can always be reasonably ‘argued,’ so yes…I would date people who have different views than me on secular subjects only. And I had a great time as a Christian, it was hard for me to abandon it for that very reason. If I had a miserable Christian experience, it would have been easier.

So, it’s not because of ‘what I went through,’ and interestingly, I dated atheists when I was a Christian. Maybe karma will befall me someday, and I will fall madly in love with an atheist, who later on…converts to Christianity. And I will remember your chastising.

Dating is different than friendships, in my opinion. You are free to date anyone you wish…that doesn’t mean your view needs to become mine.

 

[philbo]

Seeing as I married a Christian twenty-something years ago, I might be expected to say "it's not really relevant, but I'd be quite happy dating a theist".. but, it's getting relevant again as we separated in January.

As I feel now, I would be far happier dating an atheist.. part of it is me: I've become far less tolerant of religious silliness, and there is a lot of it. Even though my wife (we haven't divorced yet) is not particularly religious, there were still times I had to bite my tongue to maintain marital harmony. We basically got through decades of marriage avoiding god & religion as topics. I'm not going to do that again.