Blame It On The Police?

[Neo Deist]

My question to the officers, if you had a schizophrenic son who took off all his clothes in public then made threatening moves towards a Black police officer who then proceeded to shoot him in the back, would you call that justified, or excessive use of force???

Schizophrenia does not make you take your clothes off in public.

Being high on hard narcotics, especially heroin or PCP, does...and it makes you extremely violent, as well as impervious to pain. We have had guys who jumped from heights in an effort to run from us, broke both of their legs in the fall, only to get up and keep running. They strip naked because their bodies feel like they are on fire...they are burning up and their skin is reacting to the drugs as a sensory organ.

I would have to know more about the "shooting in the back" scenario before I could render judgment. Did the bad guy turn at the last second as the officer fired? Was he really shot in the back, or is that what a "witness" said. What does the M.E.'s report say? Was the officer in a fight for his life during the shooting?

Our officers have cameras in their patrol cars as well as body cameras, so whatever is said and whatever action takes place...it is on video and audio.

 

[Neo Deist]

So the penalty for stealing $10 of merchandise should be death, no wonder this country is so f'd up, police officers actually think like that.

Where do you get that the penalty for $10 theft should be death?

Or did you just stop after the first couple of sentences and fail to read the entire post?

 

[Lyndon]

So if your son was shot in the back because he was schizophrenic you would accuse him of being on PCP and call the shooting justified???

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think a lot of it has to do with the area your in and the demographics. Police act and behave differently say from your typical small town vs inner city as well as the population demographics. In general of course.

Lets face it. Police will treat you differently based on a givin areas history and ethinicity by which high crime areas are approached and engaged, as opposed to areas that have less of a problem.
.
It seems more and more the media likes to portray the worst of areas as being something of an epidemic when in reality it's limited only in areas that have proven to have been a problem.

Personally, I think police training has degraded to where brute force and aggressiveness is the preferred methodology rather than sensitivity training by which the latter is a lower priority in dealing with problem neighborhoods and doesn't help always in situations where ethnicity plays a role.

The media on the other hand, doesn't help either. The more problems and conflict it can hype up and get people in a frenzy the better it is for "reporting".

I think each and every incident involving police and civilian interactions and engagements need to be weighed in on a case by case basis and not reflected as being a national problem.

2 cents.

 

[oldbadger]

I do not need counseling. I separate myself from work as soon as I clock out. I have a life outside of being a cop.

Thanks for your reply.
Look............ you might be one in a million, but the rest of humanity can cope with a high stress level for a time, (usually circa 18 months) and then it just falls off the stress threshold.
This can result in all kinds of reactions and responses, but almost nobody who has had a ST fall can admit it.

I am not racist, and I do not hate anyone based on skin color, gender, religion, etc. I am just stating simple facts. Some will agree, some won't. It makes no difference to me.

I never said that you are.......... See the underlined sentence? Watch your ST, there. Does your Force offer counselling?

Are the articles true? Partially. The media has a way of twisting a story without presenting all the facts. They want ratings. They thrive on controversy. The more crap they can throw around the better.

Yes. The media is a ravenous beast.
One way of not feeding it would be to not shoot the unarmed victims in those partially true situations that you have agreed do exist.

Ask me about any recent "white cop shoots unarmed black man" story and I can give you factual details that the media kindly forgot to mention. We get insider intel on these situations from around the country.

You don't look too good on English television, even in friendly-series which attempt to make you look good. So what you look like in media reports........ damn.
Last night I watched a Cops programme, which US police forces allow to be made as a PR exercise, and a big black bloke who approached four cops to ask about his handcuffed friend didn't move away quickly enough, and four cops put him down to handcuff him. Whilst three were holding him, the fourth held a hand-taser to his right rear thigh and we, the audience, could here it clicking as the cop just held the trigger down. That..... on a Cop PR film.
Some of your State and County Law Enforcement services are (no doubt) of the best in the World, others...... oh dear.

BTW, there is no such thing as "unarmed," unless the person is a quadriplegic. That is a "hot" word the media likes to use to help paint their story.

My goodness.......... of course there is. OK..... so let's agree that your country is deluged in 300 million firearms and nothing is ever, ever, going to get rid of them now. Let's agree that you have to be touching, holding or pointing your handgun in many many approaches and confrontations...... OK? So you need REGULAR and REPEATED training reviews and counselling sessions to reduce stress-threshold mindsets which can make more mistakes in day-by-day hour-by-hour situations! What is the 2nd pressure trigger weight on your handguns? QED!

By the way......... I write a lot of posts to defend US cop actions on this forum........

 

[Sees]

So if your son was shot in the back because he was schizophrenic you would accuse him of being on PCP and call the shooting justified???

Seems like you are just throwing stuff at the wall and hoping something sticks...

 

[Lyndon]

Oldbadger; I'm sure if a black paraplegic in an electric wheelchair tried to run over a cop they would shoot him too....

 

[Lyndon]

Seems like you are just throwing stuff at the wall and hoping something sticks...

You fail to see why I brought up the topic of how would the cop feel if his own son was the victim; Unlike you, obviously, I find that very relevant as all these victims of police violence have parents, and no one wants their son or daughter to be shot, at least almost no one.

 

[Lyndon]

As long as the police have an us vs them attitude to minorities, the minorities are going to be justified in having a them vs us attitude towards the cops.

 

[Neo Deist]

Personally, I think police training has degraded to where brute force and aggressiveness is the preferred methodology rather than sensitivity training by which the latter is a lower priority in dealing with problem neighborhoods and doesn't help always in situations where ethnicity plays a role.

It is opposite of that.

We have to do our job knowing that everyone has a camera (cell phone) and any thing we do or say is being recorded by someone, somewhere. Our dept. uses dash cams as well as body cams. I don't have a problem with either as they corroborate my story. If you are an honest cop (a vast majority are...the media rarely portrays them) then you have nothing to worry about.

We have a split second to perceive a threat under stress/duress, react to it within policy, and suffer the consequences. Everyone else becomes an armchair quarterback and gets to spend months pouring over documents, evidence, etc. and saying "coulda, shoulda, woulda."

Until you walk a mile in a cop's shoes in one of the most violent cities in the USA, you really have no room to talk (not you...directed at everyone).

 

[Neo Deist]

Seems like you are just throwing stuff at the wall and hoping something sticks...

He is just trolling. I have stopped responding to his drivel on this thread.

 

[Lyndon]

Resorting to insults and calling my comments drivel are a violation of the TOS of this forum, if you are able to answer people's comments without insulting them, by all means do so, otherwise back off on the personal attacks.

 

[Neo Deist]

I recall Jayhawker Soule using the term drivel all the time in his threads...and nothing is done about it. Apparently referring to a post or comment as drivel is not a violation of anything, and it is certainly not a personal attack. Might I suggest turning the other cheek?

I am pretty sure TROLLING is a violation.

 

[Laika]

And yes, I am an inner city cop.

Best of luck. I don't like the system and do think there is a problem with race, but honestly- that just makes the good cops more important as they've got to be the ones to put it right. it's a tough job, but nobody in their right mind wants to have to stand up to a bad cop.

 

[Sees]

Resorting to insults and calling my comments drivel are a violation of the TOS of this forum, if you are able to answer people's comments without insulting them, by all means do so, otherwise back off on the personal attacks.

Comments on a person's views, opinions, postings are not personal attacks. It's always better to just report posts and let staff take care of the moderating.

 

[Lyndon]

Well praetorian, I've reported you for personal attacks, you might try reporting me for trolling and see how far you get, I think asking you how you would react if your own son was shot by a police officer is quite relevant and not trolling at all, you gave no reply as it seems you have never considered the possibility that your own children might be victims, well I'll have you know that all these Black victims of police brutality are someone's children and no different, really, from your own children, as I said you seem to have an us vs them mentality, I'm glad to be considered them, not us.

PS since I wrote this is see Sees says calling someone a troll and their comments drivel does not classify as a personal attack, well interesting interpretation.

 

[fantome profane]

LOL...name a police shooting so that I may enlighten you.

Explain the shooting of Aiyana Jones to me.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

We have to do our job knowing that everyone has a camera (cell phone) and any thing we do or say is being recorded by someone, somewhere. Our dept. uses dash cams as well as body cams. I don't have a problem with either as they corroborate my story. If you are an honest cop (a vast majority are...the media rarely portrays them) then you have nothing to worry about.

Out of interest, if you could beef up one area of policing to provide better community outcomes, what would it be?

 

[Twilight Hue]

It is opposite of that.

We have to do our job knowing that everyone has a camera (cell phone) and any thing we do or say is being recorded by someone, somewhere. Our dept. uses dash cams as well as body cams. I don't have a problem with either as they corroborate my story. If you are an honest cop (a vast majority are...the media rarely portrays them) then you have nothing to worry about.

We have a split second to perceive a threat under stress/duress, react to it within policy, and suffer the consequences. Everyone else becomes an armchair quarterback and gets to spend months pouring over documents, evidence, etc. and saying "coulda, shoulda, woulda."

Until you walk a mile in a cop's shoes in one of the most violent cities in the USA, you really have no room to talk (not you...directed at everyone).

It seems that when you have a particular level of pressure applied regularly on a daily basis, there is a tendency to experience over time a level of desensitization by which folks who are not as desensitized react to how an officer carries him or herself without understanding the how's and why's.

I think cameras will go a long way not only in protecting people from the police, but protecting the police from people who otherwise will take advantage to give officers a reputation that can be undeserved. I'm a big proponent of that albeit ironically, as I actually object to having to live in a surveillance type society.
I suppose it's all in how the technology is used that makes it beneficial or nefarious.

 

[Neo Deist]

Out of interest, if you could beef up one area of policing to provide better community outcomes, what would it be?

Hold cops accountable for their non-emergency actions. If they are speeding without running lights/sirens, they should get a ticket. If they pull up to a red light, see that it is clear and then run it, they should get a ticket. If they use excessive force as defined by their departments guidelines, they should be reprimanded by suspension without pay. Too many of these should result in termination. Once the public sees that cops are no better than they are, and are held to the same standards, relations will improve. Once again, honest cops don't worry about this stuff.

My dept. does a ton of community relations. We are not "militaristic" and even during the recent protests, the public was actually thanking us for doing what we do and how we do it...and this is in Birmingham, Alabama!