Kolibri
Well-Known Member
then maybe they should not be called "credible"
though outside of the fanaticism regarding evolution I am sure they are quite credible.
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Snowflakes....designed or accidents of nature?
- Thread starter JayJayDee
- Start date
though outside of the fanaticism regarding evolution I am sure they are quite credible.
JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
No, actually "creationism" is outlawed in schools, which is fine by me. Creationism flies in the face of true science.
I do not support creationism, I support intelligent design by a powerful Creator. Many scientists do too.
A science "fact" is provable by demonstration in a controlled experiment. Organic evolution cannot be proved as "fact" by this definition. What can be proved is adaptation (variations within species adapting to changes in their environment) but there is no "proof" that one species ever evolved into a completely unrelated "kind". That is a fact.
I detect a certain amount of fanaticism and bias in both camps actually. Which is my point entirely.
Your position is no more "provable" as "fact" than mine is....and I think you know it. It requires faith in the words of your teachers, just as mine does.
Just adding:
You mean like past Popes that have endorsed evolution
Exactly. Please don't confuse Christendom with Christianity.
Last edited:
JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
And this demonstrates my point exactly. All the features that are beautiful in the various bird species reflect a mating advantage. It isn't decoration for the sake of it. Theses birds didn't exactly plan their plumage did they? Did they think to themselves, "I am going to grow magnificent, light refracting plumage so as to attract a lady....it may take thousands of years to get the color and feathers just right, but I am gonna keep trying till I get it right"....? Seriously?
Did plants think up ways to pollinate themselves by using insects? Did they purposely devise the elaborate mechanisms used to invite the various insects into their reproductive systems? Do you have any comprehension about what the scientists are suggesting?
Look at what you just said......then ask yourself what "survival advantage" there is in reproduction.....?
Humans are not animals. And "normal" human beings (i.e. Those with normal human sensibilities) do find violence repugnant. Most of us could not take a human life unless we were trained by other humans to do so. We are flawed, due to sin, so we are at risk of having our sensibilities corrupted by our environment. It's called adaptation.
We alone have a conscience, which can be overridden.I was at a zoo once where the silverback gorilla threw his own excrement at visitors. From the expression on his face it sure looked premeditated......either that, or he learned very quickly that it elicited a response in people. I do not see gorillas in all zoos heaving excrement at visitors though...do you?
Again...learned behaviors are examples of adaptation. "Monkey see, monkey do"......when a learned behavior is observed by others, they mimic it. All creatures possess this ability, but it is not proof of organic evolution.
Sorry these videos will not play on my iPad.....but from what I have seen of the behavior of crows, these may have learned their behavior from one incident that happened by chance and they repeated it with the same beneficial result....a learned behavior. All animals have this ability. What does it prove?
Last edited:
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
You really need to think your comments through a lot harder -evolution happens to SPECIES, not individuals. Birds don't live for thousands of years and do not consciously color their feathers.
Humans are animals, we are mammals.Did plants think up ways to pollinate themselves by using insects? Did they purposely devise the elaborate mechanisms used to invite the various insects into their reproductive systems? Do you have any comprehension about what the scientists are suggesting?
Look at what you just said......then ask yourself what "survival advantage" there is in reproduction.....?
Humans are not animals. And "normal" human beings (i.e. Those with normal human sensibilities) do find violence repugnant. Most of us could not take a human life unless we were trained by other humans to do so. We are flawed, due to sin, so we are at risk of having our sensibilities corrupted by our environment. It's called adaptation.
I was at a zoo once where the silverback gorilla threw his own excrement at visitors. From the expression on his face it sure looked premeditated......either that, or he learned very quickly that it elicited a response in people. I do not see gorillas in all zoos heaving excrement at visitors though...do you?
Again...learned behaviors are examples of adaptation. "Monkey see, monkey do"......when a learned behavior is observed by others, they mimic it. All creatures possess this ability, but it is not proof of organic evolution.
Sorry these videos will not play on my iPad.....but from what I have seen of the behavior of crows, these may have learned their behavior from one incident that happened by chance and they repeated it with the same beneficial result....a learned behavior. All animals have this ability. What does it prove?
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
Then don't think of him as a programmer. When you're comparing human design with God designs, or thinking of "how can there be a snowflake without a programmer making them so?" or "how can species evolve through genetic mutations and natural selection without a guy sitting behind the curtains controlling it?" You are making God into a human as well. This whole thread is about how you think of God in human terms.
Then don't think of him/her/it as a "Creator", because that's a human term that describes human actions.
There's no choice, mercy, service, or whatever when it comes to God, simply because, as you said, God is not human. So why are you ascribing human attributes and attitudes towards God?
God is not a human, so he doesn't write or have agendas. And how we're doing? I think you're wanting to use human terms on your God but deny me the same benefit. I like talking to you, but you're demanding that I have to follow rules that you don't have to. Your God is human-like to the properties you've chosen, but anything I ascribe to God is suddenly "too human" to be used. In simple terms, that's not fair.
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
Comparing designed things with creation is something we are told to do in the Bible
"Of course, every house is constructed by someone, but the one who constructed all things is God." - Hebrews 3:4
shawn001
Well-Known Member
"On investigating the various reproductive systems in the natural world, I see amazing variety in the way creatures reproduce replicas of themselves. When we look at herding land animals for example, do we see some that appear to be evolving into something different from the other members of their herd? Vast numbers are seen...all the same. The genetics are virtually locked in. Mutations do not, for the most part produce beneficial results, they are usually detrimental to the survival of the animals and defective creatures are at a disadvantage. This is true of all species, on land or in the sea. Yet science wants us to believe that beneficial mutations happen routinely throughout the process of evolution in all species. I don't believe it."
You are no expert for sure. What you believe doesn't matter when its completely contrary to the billions of facts that support evolution.
One Common Ancestor Behind Blue Eyes
"
People with blue eyes have a single, common ancestor, according to new research.
A team of scientists has tracked down a genetic mutation that leads to blue eyes. The mutation occurred between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago. Before then, there were no blue eyes.
"Originally, we all had brown eyes," said Hans Eiberg from the Department of Cellular and Molecular Medicine at the University
of Copenhagen.The mutation affected the so-called OCA2 gene, which is involved in the production of melanin, the pigment that gives color to our hair, eyes andskin
."A genetic mutation affecting the OCA2 gene in our chromosomes resulted in the creation of a 'switch,' which literally 'turned off' the ability to produce brown eyes," Eiberg said.
The genetic switch is located in the gene adjacent to OCA2 and rather than completely turning off the gene, the switch limits its action, which reduces the production of melanin in the iris. In effect, the turned-down switch diluted brown eyes to blue.
If the OCA2 gene had been completely shut down, our hair, eyes and skin would be melanin-less, a condition known as albinism.
One Common Ancestor Behind Blue Eyes
shawn001
Well-Known Member
The oldest fossil of our genus
"The oldest fossil of our genus
And a new look at Homo habilis
Species:
Homo habilis
Researchers announced the oldest known fossil of the genus Homo, the evolutionary group of living humans. The new discovery, called the ‘Ledi jaw’ from Ethiopia, is 2.75 to 2.80 million years old. The lower jaw, known only from the left half, has smaller teeth than the ancestor Australopithecus and other similarities to later species of Homo, such as Homo habilis.
The most important jaw of Homo habilis, around 1.8 million years old, has now been restored. The shape was cracked as it fossilized. Using CT scanning, scientists could visualize and separate the cracked pieces to reconstruct its original shape. The newly restored jaw, found in 1960 in Tanzania, shows parallel rows of teeth likeAustralopithecus, yet it belongs to an individual with a large brain, similar in size to earlyHomo erectus.
The new reconstruction of Homo habilis (below, left) was published in Nature March 5, 2015, and the Ledi jaw (below, right) was announced in Science the same day.
The oldest fossil of our genus | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program
"Big Brain" Gene Allowed for Evolutionary Expansion of Human Neocortex
The newly identified gene is found in modern-day humans, Neandertals and Denisovans, but not in chimps
"Big Brain" Gene Allowed for Evolutionary Expansion of Human Neocortex - Scientific American
Howard Hughes Medical Institute's new BioInteractive Video on human evolution is online!
Great Transitions: The Origin of Humans — HHMI BioInteractive Video
Which traits distinguish humans from other primates? When and where did these traits evolve? Discover the latest findings on hominid evolution in this classroom-ready biology video.
"The oldest fossil of our genus
And a new look at Homo habilis
Species:
Homo habilis
Researchers announced the oldest known fossil of the genus Homo, the evolutionary group of living humans. The new discovery, called the ‘Ledi jaw’ from Ethiopia, is 2.75 to 2.80 million years old. The lower jaw, known only from the left half, has smaller teeth than the ancestor Australopithecus and other similarities to later species of Homo, such as Homo habilis.
The most important jaw of Homo habilis, around 1.8 million years old, has now been restored. The shape was cracked as it fossilized. Using CT scanning, scientists could visualize and separate the cracked pieces to reconstruct its original shape. The newly restored jaw, found in 1960 in Tanzania, shows parallel rows of teeth likeAustralopithecus, yet it belongs to an individual with a large brain, similar in size to earlyHomo erectus.
The new reconstruction of Homo habilis (below, left) was published in Nature March 5, 2015, and the Ledi jaw (below, right) was announced in Science the same day.
The oldest fossil of our genus | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program
"Big Brain" Gene Allowed for Evolutionary Expansion of Human Neocortex
The newly identified gene is found in modern-day humans, Neandertals and Denisovans, but not in chimps
"Big Brain" Gene Allowed for Evolutionary Expansion of Human Neocortex - Scientific American
Howard Hughes Medical Institute's new BioInteractive Video on human evolution is online!
Great Transitions: The Origin of Humans — HHMI BioInteractive Video
Which traits distinguish humans from other primates? When and where did these traits evolve? Discover the latest findings on hominid evolution in this classroom-ready biology video.
shawn001
Well-Known Member
For example, a joint statement of IAP by 68 national and international science academies lists as established scientific fact that Earth is approximately 4.6 billion years old and has undergone continual change; that life, according to the evidence of earliest fossils, appeared on Earth at least 3.8 billion years ago and has subsequently taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve; and that the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicates their common primordial origin
Evidence of Evolution
Scientists have discovered a wealth of evidence concerning human evolution, and this evidence comes in many forms. Thousands of human fossils enable researchers and students to study the changes that occurred in brain and body size, locomotion, diet, and other aspects regarding the way of life of early human species over the past 6 million years. Millions of stone tools, figurines and paintings, footprints, and other traces of human behavior in the prehistoric record tell about where and how early humans lived and when certain technological innovations were invented. Study of human genetics show how closely related we are to other primates – in fact, how connected we are with all other organisms – and can indicate the prehistoric migrations of our species, Homo sapiens, all over the world. Advances in the dating of fossils and artifacts help determine the age of those remains, which contributes to the big picture of when different milestones in becoming human evolved.
Exciting scientific discoveries continually add to the broader and deeper public knowledge of human evolution. Find out about the latest evidence in our What’s Hot in Human Origins section.
Behavior
Explore the evidence of early human behavior—from ancient footprints to stone tools and the earliest symbols and art – along with similarities and differences in the behavior of other primate species.
3D Collection
Explore our 3D collection of fossils and artifacts.
Human Fossils
From skeletons to teeth, early human fossils have been found of more than 6,000 individuals. Look into our digital 3-D collection and learn about fossil human species.
Genetics
Our genes offer evidence of how closely we are related to one another – and of our species’ connection with all other organisms.
Dating
The layers that contain fossils and archeological clues can be dated by more than a dozen techniques that use the basic principles of physics, chemistry, and Earth sciences. Some techniques can even estimate the age of the ancient teeth and bones directly. Advances in dating have made human evolution very exciting!
Human Evolution by The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program
One Species, Living Worldwide
The billions of human beings living today all belong to one species: Homo sapiens.
As in all species, there is variation among individual human beings, from size and shape to skin tone and eye color. But we are much more alike than we are different. We are, in fact, remarkably similar. The DNA of all human beings living today is 99.9% alike.
We all have roots extending back 200,000 years to the emergence of the first modern humans in Africa, and back more than 6 million years to the evolution of the earliest human species in Africa. This amazing story of adaptation and survival is written in the language of our genes, in every cell of our bodies—as well as in the fossil and behavioral evidence.
This ancient heritage is yours.
Explore the origins of modern humans in Africa about 200,000 years ago and celebrate our species’ epic journey around the world in this video: "One Species, Living Worldwide."
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics/one-species-living- worldwide
Neanderthal, was not a modern human and used tools, created art and buried their dead.
New Research Confirms 'Out Of Africa' Theory Of Human Evolution
Homo sapiens originated in Africa 150,000 years ago and began to migrate 55,000 to 60,000 years ago. It is thought he arrived in Australia around 45,000 years before present (BP). Australia was, at the time, already colonised by homo erectus. This dispersal, from Africa to Australia through Arabia, Asia and the Malay peninsula, could have occurred at a rate of 1km per year. (Credit: Image courtesy of University Of Cambridge)
New Research Confirms 'Out Of Africa' Theory Of Human Evolution -- ScienceDaily
DNA Agrees With All the Other Science: Darwin Was Right
Molecular biologist Sean Carroll shows how evolution happens, one snippet of DNA at a time
One of the great triumphs of modern evolutionary science, evo devo addresses many of the key questions that were unanswerable when Charles Darwin published On the Origin of Species in 1859, and Carroll has become a leader in this nascent field. Now a professor of molecular biology and genetics at the University of Wisconsin, he continues to decode the genes that control life’s physical forms and to explore how mutations in those genes drive evolutionary change. These days, Carroll also devotes increasing energy to telling the public about his field’s remarkable discoveries through a series of books—Endless Forms Most Beautiful, The Making of the Fittest, and the brand-new Remarkable Creatures. He spoke with DISCOVER senior editor Pamela Weintraub about what his work has taught him about Darwin, the nature of evolution, and how life really works.
It has been 150 years since Charles Darwin proposed his theory of evolution in On the Origin of Species, yet in some ways the concept of evolution seems more controversial than ever today. Why do you think that is?
It is a cultural issue, not a scientific one. On the science side our confidence grows yearly because we see independent lines of evidence converge. What we’ve learned from the fossil record is confirmed by the DNA record and confirmed again by embryology. But people have been raised to disbelieve evolution and to hold other ideas more precious than this knowledge. At the same time, we routinely rely on DNA to convict and exonerate criminals. We rely on DNA science for things like paternity. We rely on DNA science in the clinic to weigh our disease risks or maybe even to look at prognoses for things like cancer. DNA science surrounds us, but in this one realm we seem unwilling to accept its facts. Juries are willing to put people to death based upon the variations in DNA, but they’re not willing to understand the mechanism that creates that variation and shapes what makes humans different from other things. It’s a blindness. I think this is a phase that we’ll eventually get through. Other countries have come to peace with DNA. I don’t know how many decades or centuries it’s going to take us.
DNA Agrees With All the Other Science: Darwin Was Right | DiscoverMagazine.com
They Don't Make Homo Sapiens Like They Used To
Our species—and individual races—have recently made big evolutionary changes to adjust to new pressures.
They Don't Make Homo Sapiens Like They Used To | DiscoverMagazine.com
Hundreds of Human Genes Still Evolving
A comprehensive scan of the human genome finds that hundreds of our genes have undergone positive natural selection during the past 10,000 years of human evolution.
Hundreds of Human Genes Still Evolving
"Whales "cetaceans" are mammals like us. Despite that "fishy" lifestyle, their physiology clearly reveals their mammalian features. How did this occur? How did whales evolve? What did they evolve from? The evidence of whale evolution is clear. The list of new fossil species exhibiting transitional features continues to grow. If you are ever asked for an example of "transitional fossils", this list is a great place to start."
Indohyus
Pakicetus
Rodhocetus
Nalacetus
Ichthyolestes
Gandakasia
Ambulocetus
Himalayacetus
Attockicetus
Remingtonocetus
Dalanistes
Kutchicetus
Andrewsiphius
Indocetus
Qaisracetus
Takracetus
Artiocetus
Babiacetus
Protocetus
Pappocetus
Eocetus
Georgiacetus
Natchitochia
Dorudon
Ancalacetus
Zygorhiza
Saghacetus
Chrysocetus
Gaviacetus
Pontogeneus
Basilosaurus
Basiloterus
Whale Evolution - YouTube
Whales evolved, as of course did all life on earth and still is evolving.
Evidence of Evolution
Scientists have discovered a wealth of evidence concerning human evolution, and this evidence comes in many forms. Thousands of human fossils enable researchers and students to study the changes that occurred in brain and body size, locomotion, diet, and other aspects regarding the way of life of early human species over the past 6 million years. Millions of stone tools, figurines and paintings, footprints, and other traces of human behavior in the prehistoric record tell about where and how early humans lived and when certain technological innovations were invented. Study of human genetics show how closely related we are to other primates – in fact, how connected we are with all other organisms – and can indicate the prehistoric migrations of our species, Homo sapiens, all over the world. Advances in the dating of fossils and artifacts help determine the age of those remains, which contributes to the big picture of when different milestones in becoming human evolved.
Exciting scientific discoveries continually add to the broader and deeper public knowledge of human evolution. Find out about the latest evidence in our What’s Hot in Human Origins section.
Behavior
Explore the evidence of early human behavior—from ancient footprints to stone tools and the earliest symbols and art – along with similarities and differences in the behavior of other primate species.
3D Collection
Explore our 3D collection of fossils and artifacts.
Human Fossils
From skeletons to teeth, early human fossils have been found of more than 6,000 individuals. Look into our digital 3-D collection and learn about fossil human species.
Genetics
Our genes offer evidence of how closely we are related to one another – and of our species’ connection with all other organisms.
Dating
The layers that contain fossils and archeological clues can be dated by more than a dozen techniques that use the basic principles of physics, chemistry, and Earth sciences. Some techniques can even estimate the age of the ancient teeth and bones directly. Advances in dating have made human evolution very exciting!
Human Evolution by The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program
One Species, Living Worldwide
The billions of human beings living today all belong to one species: Homo sapiens.
As in all species, there is variation among individual human beings, from size and shape to skin tone and eye color. But we are much more alike than we are different. We are, in fact, remarkably similar. The DNA of all human beings living today is 99.9% alike.
We all have roots extending back 200,000 years to the emergence of the first modern humans in Africa, and back more than 6 million years to the evolution of the earliest human species in Africa. This amazing story of adaptation and survival is written in the language of our genes, in every cell of our bodies—as well as in the fossil and behavioral evidence.
This ancient heritage is yours.
Explore the origins of modern humans in Africa about 200,000 years ago and celebrate our species’ epic journey around the world in this video: "One Species, Living Worldwide."
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics/one-species-living- worldwide
Neanderthal, was not a modern human and used tools, created art and buried their dead.
New Research Confirms 'Out Of Africa' Theory Of Human Evolution
Homo sapiens originated in Africa 150,000 years ago and began to migrate 55,000 to 60,000 years ago. It is thought he arrived in Australia around 45,000 years before present (BP). Australia was, at the time, already colonised by homo erectus. This dispersal, from Africa to Australia through Arabia, Asia and the Malay peninsula, could have occurred at a rate of 1km per year. (Credit: Image courtesy of University Of Cambridge)
New Research Confirms 'Out Of Africa' Theory Of Human Evolution -- ScienceDaily
DNA Agrees With All the Other Science: Darwin Was Right
Molecular biologist Sean Carroll shows how evolution happens, one snippet of DNA at a time
One of the great triumphs of modern evolutionary science, evo devo addresses many of the key questions that were unanswerable when Charles Darwin published On the Origin of Species in 1859, and Carroll has become a leader in this nascent field. Now a professor of molecular biology and genetics at the University of Wisconsin, he continues to decode the genes that control life’s physical forms and to explore how mutations in those genes drive evolutionary change. These days, Carroll also devotes increasing energy to telling the public about his field’s remarkable discoveries through a series of books—Endless Forms Most Beautiful, The Making of the Fittest, and the brand-new Remarkable Creatures. He spoke with DISCOVER senior editor Pamela Weintraub about what his work has taught him about Darwin, the nature of evolution, and how life really works.
It has been 150 years since Charles Darwin proposed his theory of evolution in On the Origin of Species, yet in some ways the concept of evolution seems more controversial than ever today. Why do you think that is?
It is a cultural issue, not a scientific one. On the science side our confidence grows yearly because we see independent lines of evidence converge. What we’ve learned from the fossil record is confirmed by the DNA record and confirmed again by embryology. But people have been raised to disbelieve evolution and to hold other ideas more precious than this knowledge. At the same time, we routinely rely on DNA to convict and exonerate criminals. We rely on DNA science for things like paternity. We rely on DNA science in the clinic to weigh our disease risks or maybe even to look at prognoses for things like cancer. DNA science surrounds us, but in this one realm we seem unwilling to accept its facts. Juries are willing to put people to death based upon the variations in DNA, but they’re not willing to understand the mechanism that creates that variation and shapes what makes humans different from other things. It’s a blindness. I think this is a phase that we’ll eventually get through. Other countries have come to peace with DNA. I don’t know how many decades or centuries it’s going to take us.
DNA Agrees With All the Other Science: Darwin Was Right | DiscoverMagazine.com
They Don't Make Homo Sapiens Like They Used To
Our species—and individual races—have recently made big evolutionary changes to adjust to new pressures.
They Don't Make Homo Sapiens Like They Used To | DiscoverMagazine.com
Hundreds of Human Genes Still Evolving
A comprehensive scan of the human genome finds that hundreds of our genes have undergone positive natural selection during the past 10,000 years of human evolution.
Hundreds of Human Genes Still Evolving
"Whales "cetaceans" are mammals like us. Despite that "fishy" lifestyle, their physiology clearly reveals their mammalian features. How did this occur? How did whales evolve? What did they evolve from? The evidence of whale evolution is clear. The list of new fossil species exhibiting transitional features continues to grow. If you are ever asked for an example of "transitional fossils", this list is a great place to start."
Indohyus
Pakicetus
Rodhocetus
Nalacetus
Ichthyolestes
Gandakasia
Ambulocetus
Himalayacetus
Attockicetus
Remingtonocetus
Dalanistes
Kutchicetus
Andrewsiphius
Indocetus
Qaisracetus
Takracetus
Artiocetus
Babiacetus
Protocetus
Pappocetus
Eocetus
Georgiacetus
Natchitochia
Dorudon
Ancalacetus
Zygorhiza
Saghacetus
Chrysocetus
Gaviacetus
Pontogeneus
Basilosaurus
Basiloterus
Whale Evolution - YouTube
Whales evolved, as of course did all life on earth and still is evolving.
shawn001
Well-Known Member
"cyanobacteria fossils that date back 3.5 billion years."
Which can still be found today and they don't get this but its the reason they can even breathe. It evolved photosynthesis and gave the Earth its oxygen atmosphere.
Evolution and Oxygen
3 Billion years ago cyanobacteria appeared on the planet, changing the course of life on earth. Scientists call this event the Oxygen Catastrophe.
This video discusses the appearance of cyanobacteria and the effect it had on the evolution of life over the next 3 billion years.
Which can still be found today and they don't get this but its the reason they can even breathe. It evolved photosynthesis and gave the Earth its oxygen atmosphere.
Evolution and Oxygen
3 Billion years ago cyanobacteria appeared on the planet, changing the course of life on earth. Scientists call this event the Oxygen Catastrophe.
This video discusses the appearance of cyanobacteria and the effect it had on the evolution of life over the next 3 billion years.
shawn001
Well-Known Member
20 Things You Didn't Know About... Viruses
The one with its own satellite, the ones that made you, and the Mama of them all
14 In fact, scratch the whole concept of “us versus them.” Half of all human DNA originally came from viruses, which infected and embedded themselves in our ancestors’ egg and sperm cells.
20 Things You Didn't Know About... Viruses | DiscoverMagazine.com
Humans Carry More Bacterial Cells than Human Ones .
Humans Carry More Bacterial Cells than Human Ones - Scientific American
Bacteria evolved first for sure, but it has greatly shaped our evolution as well and we have evolved with Bacteria in our digestive system as well to digest food.
The one with its own satellite, the ones that made you, and the Mama of them all
14 In fact, scratch the whole concept of “us versus them.” Half of all human DNA originally came from viruses, which infected and embedded themselves in our ancestors’ egg and sperm cells.
20 Things You Didn't Know About... Viruses | DiscoverMagazine.com
Humans Carry More Bacterial Cells than Human Ones .
Humans Carry More Bacterial Cells than Human Ones - Scientific American
Bacteria evolved first for sure, but it has greatly shaped our evolution as well and we have evolved with Bacteria in our digestive system as well to digest food.
shawn001
Well-Known Member
Is Evolution a Theory or a Fact?
It is both. But that answer requires looking more deeply at the meanings of the words "theory" and "fact."
In everyday usage, "theory" often refers to a hunch or a speculation. When people say, "I have a theory about why that happened," they are often drawing a conclusion based on fragmentary or inconclusive evidence.
The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence.
Many scientific theories are so well-established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics). Like these other foundational scientific theories, the theory of evolution is supported by so many observations and confirming experiments that scientists are confident that the basic components of the theory will not be overturned by new evidence. However, like all scientific theories, the theory of evolution is subject to continuing refinement as new areas of science emerge or as new technologies enable observations and experiments that were not possible previously.
One of the most useful properties of scientific theories is that they can be used to make predictions about natural events or phenomena that have not yet been observed. For example, the theory of gravitation predicted the behavior of objects on the moon and other planets long before the activities of spacecraft and astronauts confirmed them. The evolutionary biologists who discovered Tiktaalik predicted that they would find fossils intermediate between fish and limbed terrestrial animals in sediments that were about 375 million years old. Their discovery confirmed the prediction made on the basis of evolutionary theory. In turn, confirmation of a prediction increases confidence in that theory.
In science, a "fact" typically refers to an observation, measurement, or other form of evidence that can be expected to occur the same way under similar circumstances. However, scientists also use the term "fact" to refer to a scientific explanation that has been tested and confirmed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing it or looking for additional examples. In that respect, the past and continuing occurrence of evolution is a scientific fact. Because the evidence supporting it is so strong, scientists no longer question whether biological evolution has occurred and is continuing to occur. Instead, they investigate the mechanisms of evolution, how rapidly evolution can take place, and related questions.
From Science, Evolution, and Creationism, National Academy of Sciences and Institute of Medicine. © 2008 National Academy of Science
Excerpts of Statements by Religious Leaders
Who See No Conflict Between Their Faith and Science
Many religious denominations and individual religious leaders have issued statements acknowledging the occurrence of evolution and pointing out that evolution and faith do not conflict.
Evolution Resources from the National Academies
It is both. But that answer requires looking more deeply at the meanings of the words "theory" and "fact."
In everyday usage, "theory" often refers to a hunch or a speculation. When people say, "I have a theory about why that happened," they are often drawing a conclusion based on fragmentary or inconclusive evidence.
The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence.
Many scientific theories are so well-established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics). Like these other foundational scientific theories, the theory of evolution is supported by so many observations and confirming experiments that scientists are confident that the basic components of the theory will not be overturned by new evidence. However, like all scientific theories, the theory of evolution is subject to continuing refinement as new areas of science emerge or as new technologies enable observations and experiments that were not possible previously.
One of the most useful properties of scientific theories is that they can be used to make predictions about natural events or phenomena that have not yet been observed. For example, the theory of gravitation predicted the behavior of objects on the moon and other planets long before the activities of spacecraft and astronauts confirmed them. The evolutionary biologists who discovered Tiktaalik predicted that they would find fossils intermediate between fish and limbed terrestrial animals in sediments that were about 375 million years old. Their discovery confirmed the prediction made on the basis of evolutionary theory. In turn, confirmation of a prediction increases confidence in that theory.
In science, a "fact" typically refers to an observation, measurement, or other form of evidence that can be expected to occur the same way under similar circumstances. However, scientists also use the term "fact" to refer to a scientific explanation that has been tested and confirmed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing it or looking for additional examples. In that respect, the past and continuing occurrence of evolution is a scientific fact. Because the evidence supporting it is so strong, scientists no longer question whether biological evolution has occurred and is continuing to occur. Instead, they investigate the mechanisms of evolution, how rapidly evolution can take place, and related questions.
From Science, Evolution, and Creationism, National Academy of Sciences and Institute of Medicine. © 2008 National Academy of Science
Excerpts of Statements by Religious Leaders
Who See No Conflict Between Their Faith and Science
Many religious denominations and individual religious leaders have issued statements acknowledging the occurrence of evolution and pointing out that evolution and faith do not conflict.
Evolution Resources from the National Academies
shawn001
Well-Known Member
I am posting a wall of text here, but there are billions of facts that support evolution, which is both a fact and a working theory on the details.
Big Five mass extinction events
Although the Cretaceous-Tertiary (or K-T) extinction event is the most well-known because it wiped out the dinosaurs, a series of other mass extinction events has occurred throughout the history of the Earth, some even more devastating than K-T. Mass extinctions are periods in Earth's history when abnormally large numbers of species die out simultaneously or within a limited time frame. The most severe occurred at the end of the Permian period when 96% of all species perished. This along with K-T are two of the Big Five mass extinctions, each of which wiped out at least half of all species. Many smaller scale mass extinctions have occurred, indeed the disappearance of many animals and plants at the hands of man in prehistoric, historic and modern times will eventually show up in the fossil record as mass extinctions. Discover more about Earth's major extinction events below.
Ordovician-Silurian mass extinction
The third largest extinction in Earth's history, the Ordovician-Silurian mass extinction had two peak dying times separated by hundreds of thousands of years. During the Ordovician, most life was in the sea, so it was sea creatures such as trilobites, brachiopods and graptolites that were drastically reduced in number.
Late Devonian mass extinction
Three quarters of all species on Earth died out in the Late Devonian mass extinction, though it may have been a series of extinctions over several million years, rather than a single event. Life in the shallow seas were the worst affected, and reefs took a hammering, not returning to their former glory until new types of coral evolved over 100 million years later.
Permian mass extinction
The Permian mass extinction has been nicknamed The Great Dying, since a staggering 96% of species died out. All life on Earth today is descended from the 4% of species that survived.
Triassic-Jurassic mass extinction
During the final 18 million years of the Triassic period, there were two or three phases of extinction whose combined effects created the Triassic-Jurassic mass extinction event. Climate change, flood basalt eruptions and an asteroid impact have all been blamed for this loss of life.
Cretaceous-Tertiary mass extinction
The Cretaceous-Tertiary mass extinction - also known as the K/T extinction - is famed for the death of the dinosaurs. However, many other organisms perished at the end of the Cretaceous including the ammonites, many flowering plants and the last of the pterosaurs.
BBC Nature - Big Five mass extinction events
Posting this fact again.
he Permian mass extinction has been nicknamed The Great Dying, since a staggering 96% of species died out. All life on Earth today is descended from the 4% of species that survived.
Big Five mass extinction events
Although the Cretaceous-Tertiary (or K-T) extinction event is the most well-known because it wiped out the dinosaurs, a series of other mass extinction events has occurred throughout the history of the Earth, some even more devastating than K-T. Mass extinctions are periods in Earth's history when abnormally large numbers of species die out simultaneously or within a limited time frame. The most severe occurred at the end of the Permian period when 96% of all species perished. This along with K-T are two of the Big Five mass extinctions, each of which wiped out at least half of all species. Many smaller scale mass extinctions have occurred, indeed the disappearance of many animals and plants at the hands of man in prehistoric, historic and modern times will eventually show up in the fossil record as mass extinctions. Discover more about Earth's major extinction events below.
Ordovician-Silurian mass extinction
The third largest extinction in Earth's history, the Ordovician-Silurian mass extinction had two peak dying times separated by hundreds of thousands of years. During the Ordovician, most life was in the sea, so it was sea creatures such as trilobites, brachiopods and graptolites that were drastically reduced in number.
Late Devonian mass extinction
Three quarters of all species on Earth died out in the Late Devonian mass extinction, though it may have been a series of extinctions over several million years, rather than a single event. Life in the shallow seas were the worst affected, and reefs took a hammering, not returning to their former glory until new types of coral evolved over 100 million years later.
Permian mass extinction
The Permian mass extinction has been nicknamed The Great Dying, since a staggering 96% of species died out. All life on Earth today is descended from the 4% of species that survived.
Triassic-Jurassic mass extinction
During the final 18 million years of the Triassic period, there were two or three phases of extinction whose combined effects created the Triassic-Jurassic mass extinction event. Climate change, flood basalt eruptions and an asteroid impact have all been blamed for this loss of life.
Cretaceous-Tertiary mass extinction
The Cretaceous-Tertiary mass extinction - also known as the K/T extinction - is famed for the death of the dinosaurs. However, many other organisms perished at the end of the Cretaceous including the ammonites, many flowering plants and the last of the pterosaurs.
BBC Nature - Big Five mass extinction events
Posting this fact again.
he Permian mass extinction has been nicknamed The Great Dying, since a staggering 96% of species died out. All life on Earth today is descended from the 4% of species that survived.
shawn001
Well-Known Member
You do know intelligent design is a new word created by creationists from the discovery institute, which they got caught lying about it. They could use creationism, so they used a new term and are all Christians.
You should read this transcript. The ID movement lied under oath and were caught with certain documents showing what they were doing, as well as death threats on the Judge and his family by IDers. They also admit they have no theory at all, just some "hunches" and
Intelligent Design on Trial
Science is "Exhibit A" in a landmark trial on the teaching of evolution.
"
BARBARA FORREST: In the first 1987 draft, which is the pre-Edwards draft, the definition of creation reads this way "Creation means that various forms of life began abruptly, through the agency of an intelligent creator, with their distinctive features already intact: fish with fins and scales, birds with feathers, beaks and wings, et cetera." The same definition in this draft, after the Edwards decision, reads this way: "Intelligent design means that various forms of life began abruptly through an intelligent agency, with their distinctive features already intact: fish with fins and scales, birds with feathers, beaks, et cetera." Same definition, just one is worded in terms of creationism, the other one worded in terms of intelligent design.
NICK MATZKE: Everyone said intelligent design is creationism re-labeled. Never in our wildest dreams, though, did we think that this would actually be recorded in paper in a way that could be documented in a court case.
ERIC ROTHSCHILD: And that became probably our best single piece of evidence at trial.
NARRATOR: Barbara Forrest's testimony would make a strong case that the Dover school board was thrusting religion into the classroom. And in comparing the Of Pandas and People drafts, Forrest discovered that the authors had apparently made their revisions in haste.
BARBARA FORREST: In cleansing this manuscript, they failed to replace every word properly. I found the word "creationists." And instead of replacing the entire word, they just kind of did this, and got "design proponents" with the "c" in front and the "ists" in the back from the original word.
NICK MATZKE: So the correct term for this transitional form is "Cdesign proponentsists." And everyone now refers to this as the "missing link" between creationism and intelligent design. You've got the direct physical evidence there of a transitional fossil.
NARRATOR: Barbara Forrest's testimony not only traced the creationist lineage of Pandas. Citing a Christian magazine's interview, Forrest let one of the intelligent design movement's own leaders, Paul Nelson, speak for himself.
BARBARA FORREST: The question he was asked was, "Is intelligent design just a critique of evolutionary theory or does it offer something more? Does it offer something that humankind needs to know?" This is his answer: "Easily, the biggest challenge facing the I.D. community is to develop a full-fledged theory of biological design. We don't have such a theory right now, and that's a real problem. Without a theory, it's very hard to know where to direct your research focus. Right now, we've got a bag of powerful intuitions and a handful of notions, such as irreducible complexity, but as yet, no general theory of biological design."
"This trial has established that intelligent design is unconstitutional because it is an inherently religious proposition, a modern form of creationism. It is not just a product of religious people, it does not just have religious implications. It is, in its essence, religious. The shell game has to stop."
NOVA | Intelligent Design on Trial
shawn001
Well-Known Member
So JayJayDee, I noticed you skipped over the flood story inconsistencies, but oh well but more importantly, I will ask you where did our moon come from and what evidence is there for it? It didn't just pop into existence for a fact. Or our solar system.
JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
Are you suggesting that "individuals" do not experience the suggested mutations?....do whole "species" experience the mutations simultaneously then? No one seems to be addressing the ratio of beneficial mutations compared to the detrimental ones. It looks as if DNA is designed to repair itself.
From Wiki.......
"Mutation can result in several different types of change in sequences. Mutations in genes can either have no effect, alter the product of a gene, or prevent the gene from functioning properly or completely. Mutations can also occur in nongenic regions. One study on genetic variations between different species of Drosophila suggests that, if a mutation changes a protein produced by a gene, the result is likely to be harmful, with an estimated 70 percent of amino acid polymorphisms that have damaging effects, and the remainder being either neutral or weakly beneficial.[4] Due to the damaging effects that mutations can have on genes, organisms have mechanisms such as DNA repair to prevent or correct (revert the mutated sequence back to its original state) mutations.[1]"
Mutation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That was my point. Micro-evolution does not happen by choice. Can a creature will itself to produce beauty in its plumage to facilitate its mating rituals? Since all birds do not go through the same mating ritual and many birds build different types of nests, peculiar to their species, it is very difficult indeed to assume that all of this just happened with no intelligence directing it.
How does a bird have the skills and knowledge to build a nest true to its kind without seeing how its parents did the job? It is not a learned skill.
Migration of both birds and butterflies is another case in point. How do birds or butterflies who have never been to a location naturally migrate there? GPS?
It is true that there are various mammals on this planet. But the ability to feed their infants with milk does not make them either human or animals. Both humans and animals can be mammals....which simply means that their females have mammary glands that produce the perfect food for their young.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Yes it is.
It doesn't need an intelligence to select for it. NATURAL selection does not need an intelligence, it is environmental feedback.
JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
"In the beginning God created....." This is what I believe. If you have problems with the flood story, it is because we do not have all the details. God simply doesn't supply them, although I don't know what good it would do....no one would believe him anyway. Man has no real explanation for so many things....though he thinks he does. He is good at theorising...that is a fact.
The "luminaries" are placed there for a purpose.
The earth is just the right distance from the sun, the right size and the right shape. It has just the right mixture of gases to facilitate life, and it spins on its axis at just the right speed and angle......but this all just happened by accident according to science. Look at the pictures from space and see which planet is the only one living.
The moon is designed to reflect light from the sun....its surface being mainly glass. Yet its light is the stuff of poetry, love songs and lunacy. It is responsible for the movement of the tides in vast oceans and who knows what else. But no one put it there according to science. Just random chance.
I can't go into the random chance scenario without putting on the brakes....sorry. Things that exhibit exquisite design require an intelligent designer. I didn't find my wristwatch or my computer under a bush. I didn't find my house fully constructed out in a field either. If these things that are the puny inventions of man required an intelligent designer and manufacturer, why do the much larger and more complex structures in nature and the universe NOT require them?
If you cant answer the simple questions, why bother with the hard ones? Who cares how life changed, if you don't know how it began?
Complicated answers do not address the very simple first cause of everything. Life itself did not spring out of nowhere.
Science avoids that question because it can provide no answers, and to acknowledge a Creator would force them to surrender their own precious knowledge....even though it proves nothing that God didn't already tell us.
JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
Jay said:
So natural selection instills nest design, plumage, mating rituals and migratory abilities? Just environmental feedback? Amazing!
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Yes isn't it amazing. Natural selection can design. We can even see these traits and behaviors evolve over time.So natural selection instills nest design, plumage, mating rituals and migratory abilities? Just environmental feedback? Amazing!