Is Jesus God?

[OneThatGotAway]

I don't know what Scriptures you're reading, but the Bible says the word (Jesus) was God. (John 1:1)
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

I am reading the Holy Scriptures that was translated into the Greek language.

Koine Greek: Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεός ἦν ὁ λόγος.
Greek transliteration: En archē ēn ho Lógos, kai ho Lógos ēn pros ton Theón, kai Theós ēn ho Lógos.
Greek to English: In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with (toward) the God, and God was the Word.
Sahidic Coptic to English: In the beginning existed the Word and the Word existed with the God and a god was the Word
Jubilee Bible: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was God.

Biblical scholars know that every Word of God must agree with each other in order to avoid false doctrines.
So when we read words that came before John 1:1, such as:

1. "I [am] the [YAHWEH] thy God,...Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (Exodus 20:2-3 KJV)
2. Hear Israel: YAHWEH is our God, YAHWEH is one (Deuteronomy 6:4)
3. I am YAHWEH. That is my name! And my glory will I not give to another; neither my praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8)

Bible scholars have to make sure that any branch of translation does not break away from the root of the tree; that is, God's first five books, the Books of the Prophets, and the Books of Wisdom (i.e. Proverbs, Psalms, etc.).

For over 4,000 years, all believers in God believe that there is one God.
Then came later some teachers saying that Jesus Christ is "The God"; now you have two "THE GODS".
The root (Book of Moses & Prophets) does not support this (grafted) branch of translation. Therefore, what shall we do? Scholars have the options to:

1. Re-visit this translation and re-translate it in order to support the Foundation of Scriptures (i.e. the Tanakh), the root.
2. Keep the translation and make the root support the branch translation by:
A. The old truths no longer applies; the new "truths" replaces the old; or
B. The new translation agrees with the old teachings; AND they usually have a harder time explaining why the change?

Now this is why I see that the words in John 1:1 show that Jesus is not "The God".
There are two gods mentioned in John 1:1; and they are: THE GOD (TON THEON) and a god (THEOS)
Jesus is the Son of God; however he is not THE GOD (i.e. TON THEON), he is only a god (THEOS \ THEON).
If you searched the Greek manuscript for the phrase "TON THEON", you will find that this title is only reserved for only for YAHWEH (THE GOD). And this phrase is found 124 times; and not one TON THEON is attributed to or given to Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Had the Greek Translators kept the name of YAHWEH in their translations; this confusion of "Which God?" would have never been a problem in other languages.

This is why I see that Jesus is simply a god (THEOS, THEON) and not THE GOD (TON THEON), i.e. YAHWEH. Also, THEON and THEOS can refer to THE GOD (YAHWEH) in context.
However, Jesus was using the word "god" much the same way that YAHWEH called Moses a "god" before Pharaoh.
"And [YAHWEH] said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. (Exodus 7;1)
In addition, Jesus said that he considers himself a god in the same definition of a man being called a "god":

"The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (THEOI)
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (John 10:33-36)

But if you consider Moses to be a "god"; then you have something more than a trinity if you translate and use Jesus' definition of a "god" (THEOUS, THEON), which is from Psalm 82:6. Because the Sons of Gods are considered gods (AELHYM) according to THE LORD (YAHWEH). Of course, this kind of revelation opens the trinity argument to another topic.

By the way, I believe that Bible translators considers it acceptable to add indefinite articles to the word "god"; if the article "a" makes the translation clearer. For example the KJV translators arbitrarily chose when to translate the Greek New Testament nouns with either "god" or "a god". Take for example the following verses that translate THEOS, THEON into "a god": Luke 20:38, Acts 12:22, Acts 28:6, and Hebrews 8:10.
But I read that the Greek translation does not use the indefinite article "a" for nouns in their Holy Bible.

"Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee." (Romans 11:18 KJV)

 

[Nada]

There's no need to do that. I had made a statement (in post #177) and you misunderstood it in post #178. What was said in post #93 and prior has no bearing on that fact.

Here's where you say, "Oh, sorry about that."
And where I say, "No biggie."

I accept your apology.

 

[Devin]

I'm interested in hearing thoughts about (1) Where this idea comes from and (2) If you agree with it and why/why not. I have heard it described like this: Because of the Trinity, Jesus is God, and all the things done in the Old Testament were therefore done by Jesus prior to his human incarnation. Thoughts?

Hello,
Jesus is fully God. Romans 9:3-5

 

[Unification]

I'm interested in hearing thoughts about (1) Where this idea comes from and (2) If you agree with it and why/why not. I have heard it described like this: Because of the Trinity, Jesus is God, and all the things done in the Old Testament were therefore done by Jesus prior to his human incarnation. Thoughts?

The Christ is the Spirit dwelling bodily. The heavens(head) dwelling in the Earth(body). How can someone be both divine and human, because He is Spirit dwelling bodily, and "life" itself. Who was(life) and is(life) and is to come(life) The light(knowledge/information of God) and source of energy to know God. Source within to source outside. Son to Father. Not a single, physical figure. One God. The blood, water, and Spirit in the human gives "life." How we can exist and screw up and not be consumed at instant by the pure God within one screw-up.

 

[Unification]

The Christ is the Spirit dwelling bodily. The heavens(head) dwelling in the Earth(body). How can someone be both divine and human, because He is Spirit dwelling bodily, and "life" itself. Who was(life) and is(life) and is to come(life) The light(knowledge/information of God) and source of energy to know God. Source within to source outside. Son to Father. Not a single, physical figure. One God. The blood, water, and Spirit in the human gives "life." How we can exist and screw up and not be consumed at instant by the pure God within one screw-up.

Jesus Christ= God with us. How so? Because God is within mankind.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus and Jehovah God the Almighty are two separate entities,not one.

I don't believe there is any evidence to support your statement. The End.

 

[Muffled]

You clearly misunderstood me. That often happens when you have a pre-conceived idea of what someone believes. You read into their posts what you think they're saying instead of reading what they're really saying.

I believe saying "indiviual" amounts to saying "entity." God can't be divided so if a person says that the Father God is one indivual and God the Son another then one is saying that God is divided.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus Christ= God with us. How so? Because God is within mankind.

I believe God is within everything but He only dwells in His children.

 

[Nada]

Jesus is not God the Almighty.He is the Son of God.God the Almighty cannot have a God.Jesus calls his Father his God.

John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

 

[katiemygirl]

Jesus is not God the Almighty.He is the Son of God.God the Almighty cannot have a God.Jesus calls his Father his God.

John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

Revelation 1 is all about Jesus. Rev. 1:8 tells us Jesus is the Lord God Almighty. It is Jesus who is coming. Nowhere does the Bible say Jehovah is coming. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the first and last. It is Jesus who is coming, Jesus who was pierced and Jesus who every eye will see in Rev. 1:7. The NWT is corrupt, adding Jehovah where it doesn't appear in any Greek manuscript.

 

[cataway]

Revelation 1 is all about Jesus. Rev. 1:8 tells us Jesus is the Lord God Almighty. It is Jesus who is coming. Nowhere does the Bible say Jehovah is coming. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the first and last. It is Jesus who is coming, Jesus who was pierced and Jesus who every eye will see in Rev. 1:7. The NWT is corrupt, adding Jehovah where it doesn't appear in any Greek manuscript.

maybe we should be checking out the bible you prefer to use . I'd like to see how many times the name Jehovah is found

 

[katiemygirl]

maybe we should be checking out the bible you prefer to use . I'd like to see how many times the name Jehovah is found

Not one time is Jehovah found in any of the thousands of Greek NT manuscripts. Adding the name to God's word is every bit as sinful as removing it.

 

[Kolibri]

Not one time is Jehovah found in any of the thousands of Greek NT manuscripts. Adding the name to God's word is every bit as sinful as removing it.

How many times is it removed from the Hebrew Portion of the NKJV?

 

[katiemygirl]

How many times is it removed from the Hebrew Portion of the NKJV?

I never counted.

Does removing "Jehovah,"which never existed in the Hebrew portion of any Bible, give anyone the right to add "Jehovah" 237 times to the New Testament?

It seems to me that if JW's really cared about what they insist God would have us call Him, they would insert YHWH into the OT where it belongs. Jehovah is not His name, nor has it ever been. The NWT has had more than ample time to fix this, but they've chosen not to. This is very hypocritical!

In the beginning, El Shaddai was God's prime name to the Patriarchs.

YHWH was God's prime name to the Jews.

Jesus is God's prime name for Christians.

"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

 

[moorea944]

Hello,
Jesus is fully God. Romans 9:3-5

Romans 9 is not saying Jesus is God. Dont even know where you get that one from. Please read it again. Jesus is not God. Yahweh is God. He is also the Father and God of Jesus.

 

[katiemygirl]

To the patriarchs, El Shaddai was God.

To the Jews, YHWH was God.

To the Christian, Jesus is God.

"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12

Only God can save!

 

[Kolibri]

I never counted.

Does removing "Jehovah,"which never existed in the Hebrew portion of any Bible, give anyone the right to add "Jehovah" 237 times to the New Testament?

It seems to me that if JW's really cared about what they insist God would have us call Him, they would insert YHWH into the OT where it belongs. Jehovah is not His name, nor has it ever been. The NWT has had more than ample time to fix this, but they've chosen not to. This is very hypocritical!

In the beginning, El Shaddai was God's prime name to the Patriarchs.

YHWH was God's prime name to the Jews.

Jesus is God's prime name for Christians.

"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

Nearly 7000 times, the divine name is hidden by LORD or GOD in the Hebrew text. If you were truly so picky about pronunciation then you would leave Jesus' name in Hebrew or Greek. Instead, there is a campaign about proving a bias that you do not see in yourself. Or any or the other names that we convert to English equivalents. Or do you think we should calling the Johns Johohanan? and the Marys Miriam?

El Shaddai, or "God Almighty" is not a name, anymore than Teacher, or Mother is a name.

The hypocrisy is the campaign against a translation when your own favorite has bigger problems.
The KJV is one of the worst I know for having spurious texts unremoved, even when it was revised.

 

[katiemygirl]

Nearly 7000 times, the divine name is hidden by LORD or GOD in the Hebrew text. If you were truly so picky about pronunciation then you would leave Jesus' name in Hebrew or Greek. Instead, there is a campaign about proving a bias that you do not see for yourself. Or any or the other names that we convert to English equivalents. Or do you think we should calling the Johns Johohanan? and the Marys Miriam?

El Shaddai, or "God Almighty" is not a name, anymore than Teacher, or Mother is a name.

The hypocrisy is the campaign against a translation when your own favorite has bigger problems.
The KJV is one of the worst I know for having spurious texts unremoved, even when it was revised.

I'm not picky at all. Using the name Jehovah doesn't bother me a bit. The JW's are the ones making the big deal about removing God's proper name. They are being very hypocritical by not using HIS REAL NAME. I mean if they're going to make such a stink and call every single other Bible corrupt, and then not bother to even use God's REAL name, then they are being hypocritical.

You continually gloss over the addition of Jehovah into the NT 237 times. You blow it off like it's nothing. Neither Jehovah nor YHWH appear in ANY NT extant Greek manuscript. The NWT has added to the word of God, and you seem to accept that.

According to Exodus 6:2-3, El Shaddai was the primary name by which God was known to the founders of Israel, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The name YHVH was given to Moses.

Iésous (Jesus) is God's primary name for Christians.

There is no other name by which men can be saved.

 

[Kolibri]

I'm not picky at all. Using the name Jehovah doesn't bother me a bit. The JW's are the ones making the big deal about removing God's proper name. They are being very hypocritical by not using HIS REAL NAME. I mean if they're going to make such a stink and call every single other Bible corrupt, and then not bother to even use God's REAL name, then they are being hypocritical.

You continually gloss over the addition of Jehovah into the NT 237 times. You blow it off like it's nothing. Neither Jehovah nor YHWH appear in ANY NT extant Greek manuscript. The NWT has added to the word of God, and you seem to accept that.

According to Exodus 6:2-3, El Shaddai was the primary name by which God was known to the founders of Israel, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The name YHVH was given to Moses.

Iésous (Jesus) is God's primary name for Christians.

There is no other name by which men can be saved.

"Later [Abram] moved from there to the mountainous region east of Bethel and pitched his tent with Bethel on the west of A'i on the east. There he built an altar to Jehovah and began to call on the name of Jehovah." - Ge 12:8

Conflict with Exodus 6:2,3? No.

The Hebrews knew Jehovah by name long before Moses, but the meaning of that name was promised to be made much more understood as of Exodus 6:3.

I've already showed you the documentation in another thread as to why the divine name (as it is most readily recognized in English) is found in all 237 places of the Christian Greek Scriptures. It is not rendered as Jehovah in Spanish (Jehová), nor German (Jehovas), nor Indonesian (Yehuwa).

Why should we treat the divine name's pronunciation any differently than any other name? It is not some magical talisman. When we call on the name of Jehovah, We are calling on and exercising faith in the God who promises to live up to the meaning of his own name. (Joel 2:32; Romans 10:13).

Romans quotes Joel so there are at least 11/12 different translations to Hebrew over the centuries that have used the divine name in that location - J7,8,10,13-18,22-24.

J1 Matthew, Heb., edited by J. du Tillet, with a Lat. translation by J. Mercier, Paris, 1555.
J2 Matthew, Heb., incorporated as a separate chapter in ʼE′ven bo′chan [“Tried Stone”], by Shem-Tob ben Isaac Ibn Shaprut, 1385. Mss of 16th and 17th cent., Jewish Theological Seminary, New York.
J3 Matthew and Hebrews, Heb. and Lat., by Sebastian Münster, Basel, 1537 and 1557 respectively.
J4 Matthew, Heb., by J. Quinquarboreus, Paris, 1551.
J5 Liturgical Gospels, Heb., by F. Petri, Wittemberg, 1573.
J6 Liturgical Gospels, German, Lat., Gr. and Heb., by Johann Clajus, Leipzig, 1576.
J7 Christian Greek Scriptures in 12 languages, including Heb., by Elias Hutter, Nuremberg, 1599.
J8 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by William Robertson, London, 1661.
J9 Gospels, Heb. and Lat., by Giovanni Battista Jona, Rome, 1668.
J10 The New Testament . . . in Hebrew and English, by Richard Caddick, Vol. I-III, containing Matthew—1 Corinthians, London, 1798-1805.
J11 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by Thomas Fry and others, London, 1817.
J12 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by William Greenfield, London, 1831.
J13 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by A. McCaul, M. S. Alexander, J. C. Reichardt and S. Hoga, London, 1838.
J14 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by J. C. Reichardt, London, 1846.
J15 Luke, Acts, Romans and Hebrews, Heb., by J. H. R. Biesenthal, Berlin, 1855, 1867, 1853 and 1858 respectively.
J16 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by J. C. Reichardt and J. H. R. Biesenthal, London, 1866.
J17 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by Franz Delitzsch, London, 1981 ed.
J18 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by Isaac Salkinson and C. D. Ginsburg, London.
J19 John, Heb., by Moshe I. Ben Maeir, Denver, Colorado, 1957.
J20 A Concordance to the Greek Testament, by W. F. Moulton and A. S. Geden, fourth ed., Edinburgh, 1963.
J21 The Emphatic Diaglott (Greek-English interlinear), by Benjamin Wilson, New York, 1864, reprint by Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, Brooklyn, 1942.
J22 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by United Bible Societies, Jerusalem, 1979.
J23 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by J. Bauchet, Rome, 1975.
J24 A Literal Translation of the New Testament . . . From the Text of the Vatican Manuscript, by Herman Heinfetter, London, 1863.
J25 St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, by W. G. Rutherford, London, 1900.
J26 Psalms and Matthew 1:1-3:6, Heb., by Anton Margaritha, Leipzig, 1533.
- Introduction — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

The rationale for using "Jehovah" in all 237 places of the Christian Greek Scriptures has not been glossed over.

The issue, as per this thread, is that by legitimately placing the Father's name in these locations, as documented, Alpha and Omega gets designated as the Father, not the Son, as per Re 1:8.
For that is the name that is used there as per J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24.

 

[Unification]

"Later [Abram] moved from there to the mountainous region east of Bethel and pitched his tent with Bethel on the west of A'i on the east. There he built an altar to Jehovah and began to call on the name of Jehovah." - Ge 12:8

Conflict with Exodus 6:2,3? No.

The Hebrews knew Jehovah by name long before Moses, but the meaning of that name was promised to be made much more understood as of Exodus 6:3.

I've already showed you the documentation in another thread as to why the divine name (as it is most readily recognized in English) is found in all 237 places of the Christian Greek Scriptures. It is not rendered as Jehovah in Spanish (Jehová), nor German (Jehovas), nor Indonesian (Yehuwa).

Why should we treat the divine name's pronunciation any differently than any other name? It is not some magical talisman. When we call on the name of Jehovah, We are calling on and exercising faith in the God who promises to live up to the meaning of his own name. (Joel 2:32; Romans 10:13).

Romans quotes Joel so there are at least 11/12 different translations to Hebrew over the centuries that have used the divine name in that location - J7,8,10,13-18,22-24.

J1 Matthew, Heb., edited by J. du Tillet, with a Lat. translation by J. Mercier, Paris, 1555.
J2 Matthew, Heb., incorporated as a separate chapter in ʼE′ven bo′chan [“Tried Stone”], by Shem-Tob ben Isaac Ibn Shaprut, 1385. Mss of 16th and 17th cent., Jewish Theological Seminary, New York.
J3 Matthew and Hebrews, Heb. and Lat., by Sebastian Münster, Basel, 1537 and 1557 respectively.
J4 Matthew, Heb., by J. Quinquarboreus, Paris, 1551.
J5 Liturgical Gospels, Heb., by F. Petri, Wittemberg, 1573.
J6 Liturgical Gospels, German, Lat., Gr. and Heb., by Johann Clajus, Leipzig, 1576.
J7 Christian Greek Scriptures in 12 languages, including Heb., by Elias Hutter, Nuremberg, 1599.
J8 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by William Robertson, London, 1661.
J9 Gospels, Heb. and Lat., by Giovanni Battista Jona, Rome, 1668.
J10 The New Testament . . . in Hebrew and English, by Richard Caddick, Vol. I-III, containing Matthew—1 Corinthians, London, 1798-1805.
J11 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by Thomas Fry and others, London, 1817.
J12 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by William Greenfield, London, 1831.
J13 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by A. McCaul, M. S. Alexander, J. C. Reichardt and S. Hoga, London, 1838.
J14 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by J. C. Reichardt, London, 1846.
J15 Luke, Acts, Romans and Hebrews, Heb., by J. H. R. Biesenthal, Berlin, 1855, 1867, 1853 and 1858 respectively.
J16 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by J. C. Reichardt and J. H. R. Biesenthal, London, 1866.
J17 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by Franz Delitzsch, London, 1981 ed.
J18 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by Isaac Salkinson and C. D. Ginsburg, London.
J19 John, Heb., by Moshe I. Ben Maeir, Denver, Colorado, 1957.
J20 A Concordance to the Greek Testament, by W. F. Moulton and A. S. Geden, fourth ed., Edinburgh, 1963.
J21 The Emphatic Diaglott (Greek-English interlinear), by Benjamin Wilson, New York, 1864, reprint by Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, Brooklyn, 1942.
J22 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by United Bible Societies, Jerusalem, 1979.
J23 Christian Greek Scriptures, Heb., by J. Bauchet, Rome, 1975.
J24 A Literal Translation of the New Testament . . . From the Text of the Vatican Manuscript, by Herman Heinfetter, London, 1863.
J25 St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, by W. G. Rutherford, London, 1900.
J26 Psalms and Matthew 1:1-3:6, Heb., by Anton Margaritha, Leipzig, 1533.
- Introduction — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

The rationale for using "Jehovah" in all 237 places of the Christian Greek Scriptures has not been glossed over.

The issue, as per this thread, is that by legitimately placing the Father's name in these locations, as documented, Alpha and Omega gets designated as the Father, not the Son, as per Re 1:8.
For that is the name that is used there as per J7,8,13,14,16-18,22-24.

Matthew 24:27King James Version (KJV)
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth "even" unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.