Can someone explain the Trinity please...

[allfoak]

Reincarnation is not a bible teaching. It is not even hinted at. Reincarnation does not equate with resurrection at all. Whatever spirit is inspiring this guy to believe or "remember" as he does, it is not the holy spirit.

The Bible is corrupt.
The statement about spirits is something you just made up.
In other words you are living in a fantasy world.
Do you believe you were inspired by the Holy Spirit to say what you did about this man?
Making things up and then putting them in writing as if it is the truth is not a healthy practice, especially when they are derogatory remarks toward someone else.
Your beliefs are harmful to others and should be kept to yourself or changed.


Now i know that you are going to report me for what i just said and that is your right.
I would hope that those who judge what i have written can see that it is justified.
You have attacked someone who is not even here to defend himself thinking you are going to discredit what i wrote.
I would expect an apology.

 

[cataway]

The Bible is corrupt.
The statement about spirits is something you just made up.
In other words you are living in a fantasy world.
Do you believe you were inspired by the Holy Spirit to say what you did about this man?
Making things up and then putting them in writing as if it is the truth is not a healthy practice, especially when they are derogatory remarks toward someone else.
Your beliefs are harmful to others and should be kept to yourself or changed.


Now i know that you are going to report me for what i just said and that is your right.
I would hope that those who judge what i have written can see that it is justified.
You have attacked someone who is not even here to defend himself thinking you are going to discredit what i wrote.
I would expect an apology.

you are promoting a false belief

 

[JM2C]

Look at the whole passage.....where is the prelude to the verse you quoted as John 10: 28? Not once did he even infer it, but clearly said that the term "gods" could be applied to humans by the Father himself.

John 10:24-38...."The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.” Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me.

Try to understand the question. “If you are the Christ, tell us plainly” The Lord Jesus Christ answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe”.

The Jews do not believe that He is the Christ. All the works that He did was a testimony or proof or evidence that He is the Christ, the Son of God. John the Baptist testified that He “is the Son of God –John 1:34”.

Who is the Son of God? Read again John 1:1-18.

You could not have gone this far in the gospel of John and understood this part of the gospel correctly without the full understanding of John 1:1-18, and verse 34 first where it says explicitly that the Lord Jesus Christ is God, the Son of God.

If you can adulterate the very beginning of this gospel, i.e., John 1:1 “And the Word was God” then how can you fully understand the rest of the book? You simply cannot, can you? The same way the Jews in Christ’s time, they could not understand that He is the Christ, the Son of God. They can’t comprehend this then the same way you can’t today.

Today we have the full gospel of John written as our guide on how to understand who the Christ is, unlike the Jews back then they don’t have this gospel of John but they have the Lord Jesus Christ in the flesh right before their very eyes and still they did not believe Him, but the Lord Jesus Christ said to His disciples and not to the unbelieving Jews,

Jn 20:29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

 

[allfoak]

you are promoting a false belief

What gives you the right to tell me what i should or shouldn't believe?
Am i infringing on your rights some how?

 

[JM2C]

But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Those who do not believe that the Lord Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, are not His sheep. Who gives eternal life but God?

Jn 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

If the Lord Jesus Christ can “give eternal life” “to whom He is pleased to give it” then He is equal with His Father.

My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

What the Lord Jesus meant by “My Father is greater than all” was in reference to God’s enemy –Read John 10:10-12 “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy”, “the wolf snatches them and scatters them”.

IOW, “My Father is greater than all” these wolves in sheep’s clothing. None of these wolves [false prophets] in sheep’s clothing can SNATCH the TRUE CHRISTIANS “out of the Father’s hand”

“Watch out for false prophets [those who make false predictions like the jw as described in Deuteronomy 18:20-22]. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. –Matthew 7:15”

“savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock –Acts 20:29”.

JN 10:10 “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
JN 10:11 “ I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.
JN 10:12 “He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them.

 

[JM2C]

I and the Father are one.”

The Lord Jesus said in verse 29, “My Father is greater than all” and then He said in verse 30, “I and the Father are one”.

The Lord Jesus Christ’s Father is greater than all His adversaries, i.e., the devil and his angels, thus, making the sheep completely secure in the hand of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Good Shepherd –John 10:11 “I am the good shepherd”.

The Lord Jesus Christ said “I and the Father are one” as in one in equality, i.e., He, the Lord Jesus Christ, is also greater than all His adversaries, or as the Jews, AT THAT TIME FRAME ONLY, with their idiomatic expression that by “Calling God as His Father” is like “making Himself equal with God –John 5:18”.

The discourse that went on between the Lord Jesus Christ and the Jews at that time frame is full of idiomatic expressions that only they could understand the meaning of what they were saying at that time.

Now, when the Lord Jesus Christ said, “I and the Father are one” we could only follow, as readers today, what it meant to the Jews at AT THAT TIME FRAME ONLY that the meaning of “I and the Father are one” as “BLASPHEMY –v33” to them and punishable by stoning to death, because claiming God as His Father or one with God in their understanding AT THAT TIME FRAME ONLY was like “making Himself equal with God” and this is against the Law of Moses.

Lev 24:16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.

 

[JM2C]

The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came and the Scripture cannot be broken, do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.” (NASB)

Again, the Lord Jesus did not deny any of their accusation but even confirmed that He is God, the Son of God who is equal with God “and I give unto them eternal life –John 10:28” from the following verses John 10:34-36 and even repeated this assertion in verses John 10:37-39.

The Son of God is God and equal with the Father and greater than all their adversaries,i.e., the devil and his angels.

 

[JM2C]

Now read those words without the trinitarian blinkers and what do they say? Who did the Jews claim Jesus was by saying God was his Father?

”a mere man –verse 33” because the Lord Jesus Christ said “I and the Father are one” and the way the Jews understood this is the Lord Jesus Christ was claiming to be God and therefore He is equal with God and because of this claim they charged Him with blasphemy.

You have to understand FROM the reaction of the Jews AT THAT TIME FRAME was based on the Law of Moses, i.e., blasphemy punishable by death. See Leviticus 24:16

 

[allfoak]

You win.
You can treat someone else poorly, i'm not going to let you do it to me any more.
You distort and malign and then hide behind your jesus god.
It makes me ill.

 

[JM2C]

And who did Jesus say he was?

The Son of God. The Son of God to the Jews thinking AT THAT TIME FRAME is equal with God –“calling God as His Father, making Himself equal with God –John 5:18”. DO WE UNDERSTAND THIS?

When the Lord Jesus Christ said “I and the Father are one” He did not mean that He is the God/Father. Compare that to John 1:1 “And the Word was with the God”. Here we read TWO personal beings, i.e., God/Son/Word/Logos/ and God/Father/Theos. DO WE UNDERSTAND THIS?

What He meant by “I and the Father are one” is the "I" as the “Son of God”.

Now, as the Son of God, He, the Lord Jesus Christ, is/was claiming equality with His Father when He said “I and the Father are one” and therefore He is God and this is what the Jews were thinking AT THAT TIME FRAME. By “calling God as His Father, making Himself equal with God –John 5:18”

Who can be equal with God but God? BLASPHEMY SAID THE JEWS! DO WE UNDERSTAND THIS?

Now, did the Lord Jesus Christ deny any of their accusation? No! He did not. In fact He even confirmed that the reason why He is God is because He is the Son of God.

JN 10:36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘ I am the Son of God’?

Was the Lord Jesus Christ implying in verse 30 “I and the Father are one” as one/Sabellianism or even the modern Arianism/jw? NO! What He meant is “I, the Son of God –read v36, and the Father are one” as suggested also in the 2nd clause of John 1:1 “and the Word was with God”

The Jews train of thoughts, [AT THAT TIME FRAME] was TOTALLY different from Sabellius, or even the modern Arians/jw, wasn’t it?

 

[JM2C]

Now show us where in all of the NT where "son of God" means "God the Son"? You must can't see the difference, can you?

For me the “Son of God” is the same as “God the Son” and “Father God” is the same as “God the Father” and “Holy Spirit” is the same as “God the Holy Spirit”. Your semantics could make a different interpretation/alteration/adulteration like what you guys did in John 1:1 “And the Word was God” to “and the Word was a god” on which you guys can’t even support this exegetically.

 

[moorea944]

For me the “Son of God” is the same as “God the Son” and “Father God” is the same as “God the Father” and “Holy Spirit” is the same as “God the Holy Spirit”. Your semantics could make a different interpretation/alteration/adulteration like what you guys did in John 1:1 “And the Word was God” to “and the Word was a god” on which you guys can’t even support this exegetically.

Son of God shouldnt be the same as God the Son. Why would it? God the Son is not even in the bible. Out of all the words in the bible, I dont understand why you have to make up words to put into your faith and beliefs. Why? Cant you just believe that Jesus is the son of God? He is the "power and wisdom' of God. He is God's Word made flesh.

 

[JM2C]

I think the problem here is that your making the "word" an extra actual person. You shouldnt.

Please read John 1:3 where it actually says or referring the “Word” in verses 1 and 2 as “Him” twice in verse 3.

It is talking about God's word. His plans, His reasons, His thoughts, His spoken Word. Dont make that a person. The logos was with God, it was God. Of course it was, that was His Word.

”The logos was with God, it was God” Here you have it right from verse 1 in 2nd and 3dr clauses “and the Word was with God” “and the Word was God”, but your problem is you can’t connect the “Word” from verse 1 with the pronoun “HIM” in verse 3 as the same or one person.

Then..... in verse 14, Jesus comes into play. God's Word has now become flesh. Jesus was also God's only begotten son. No pre-existance here. Only of course... if you make it....

If you cannot connect the “Word –verse 1” to pronoun “HIM –verse 3” to verse 14 as the same “Word –v1” and “HIM –v3” that became flesh as God, the Son of God, i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ in the human flesh, then you won’t be able to understand the rest of the book like the JW where they have to adulterate the very beginning of the gospel of John to conform it with their twisted theology.

So, by the time they reach the middle of John’s gospel their twisted theory begins to fall apart. Their adulteration of John 1:1 “And the Word was God” to “And the Word was a god” cannot support John 12:41 where it says in Jn 12:41 "Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.”

This is a reference to Isaiah 6:1-4. In this verse John clearly expressed the Lord Jesus Christ ties to “Yahweh” [H3378]. In Isaiah 6:1 Isaiah says he saw the Lord [H3378], the Sovereign Lord [H151] and John identified this Sovereign Lord [H151] with or as the Lord Jesus Christ in John 12:41.

Now, how do you comprehend this? JW can’t even explain this verse without falling apart.

 

[JM2C]

Son of God shouldnt be the same as God the Son. Why would it? God the Son is not even in the bible. Out of all the words in the bible, I dont understand why you have to make up words to put into your faith and beliefs. Why? Cant you just believe that Jesus is the son of God? He is the "power and wisdom' of God. He is God's Word made flesh.

God the Son is literally the same as the Son of God. “And the Word, i.e., the Son of God or God the Son, was with God, i.e., God the Father.”

What is the difference? None!

What is not in the bible is “And the Word was a god” this you should argue with the jw.

The word God is Elohim [SH430] in Hebrew. This is what Deuteronomy 6:4 was actually saying.

Deuteronomy 6:4 "Jehovah our Elohim is one/echad-SH259 Jehovah"

The word “Elohim” being plural shows that God, i.e., [God/Father, God/Son, God/Holy Spirit] is the LORD, is more than one, yet is "ONE/ECHAD-SH259 United Jehovah/LORD". Hence, we have the Trinity. Echad-SH259: a united ONE, and not Yachid-SH3173: an only one.

 

[Kolibri]

The Bible is corrupt.
The statement about spirits is something you just made up.
In other words you are living in a fantasy world.
Do you believe you were inspired by the Holy Spirit to say what you did about this man?
Making things up and then putting them in writing as if it is the truth is not a healthy practice, especially when they are derogatory remarks toward someone else.
Your beliefs are harmful to others and should be kept to yourself or changed.


Now i know that you are going to report me for what i just said and that is your right.
I would hope that those who judge what i have written can see that it is justified.
You have attacked someone who is not even here to defend himself thinking you are going to discredit what i wrote.
I would expect an apology.

I am not going to report you. I can however explain my position and your position and why my conclusions are so very much different. it is tied to one statement you made: "The Bible is corrupt."
You, and you can correct me if I am wrong, believe that the Bible is unreliable and full of error. I, on the other hand, see it as having thousands of of manuscripts and fragments to review. A history that makes it virtually completely and reliably translatable.

People claim what they have is God's thoughts, and thus claim they are prophets. But we are in essence told a Galatians 1:6-9 and Acts 17:11 that we need to prove a teacher's words against already revealed Scripture. Because what this man teaches and "remembers" does not match the Bible I see what he has, at best, something "artfully contrived", and yet still a "false story." (2 Peter 1:16)

If my comments were baseless I would apologize. If I felt I was slandering him, as a person, I would apologize. But I am not, I am explaining why I feel @cataway is correct in saying this is "over the top". The information he has is not in line with the Bible, so the information, and whatever unseen influence there is in this man's life, is proved misleading. As far as I know, he could be very sincere in his misinformation.

 

[allfoak]

The information he has is not in line with the Bible,

I hear this kind of thing over and over again.
And every single person who says it has a different interpretation of the Bible.
Christians are all liars.
I know this because every denomination teaches something different and say that it is the other guy who has it wrong.
So i say they are all liars.

 

[moorea944]

Please read John 1:3 where it actually says or referring the “Word” in verses 1 and 2 as “Him” twice in verse 3.

”The logos was with God, it was God” Here you have it right from verse 1 in 2nd and 3dr clauses “and the Word was with God” “and the Word was God”, but your problem is you can’t connect the “Word” from verse 1 with the pronoun “HIM” in verse 3 as the same or one person.

If you cannot connect the “Word –verse 1” to pronoun “HIM –verse 3” to verse 14 as the same “Word –v1” and “HIM –v3” that became flesh as God, the Son of God, i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ in the human flesh, then you won’t be able to understand the rest of the book like the JW where they have to adulterate the very beginning of the gospel of John to conform it with their twisted theology.

So, by the time they reach the middle of John’s gospel their twisted theory begins to fall apart. Their adulteration of John 1:1 “And the Word was God” to “And the Word was a god” cannot support John 12:41 where it says in Jn 12:41 "Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.”

This is a reference to Isaiah 6:1-4. In this verse John clearly expressed the Lord Jesus Christ ties to “Yahweh” [H3378]. In Isaiah 6:1 Isaiah says he saw the Lord [H3378], the Sovereign Lord [H151] and John identified this Sovereign Lord [H151] with or as the Lord Jesus Christ in John 12:41.

Now, how do you comprehend this? JW can’t even explain this verse without falling apart.

Anyway you put it, your making Jesus God. So it doesnt matter what I say or write to you. I your eyes, Jesus will always be God. In John 1, Logos is not God Himself. I think you got it wrong on that one. Logos is God's Word, the Word of God. It is not saying that it is Jesus.

 

[Kolibri]

I hear this kind of thing over and over again.
And every single person who says it has a different interpretation of the Bible.
Christians are all liars.
I know this because every denomination teaches something different and say that it is the other guy who has it wrong.
So i say they are all liars.

Your reasoning is this then: The stereotype is warranted so it must be true in all cases.

 

[cataway]

What gives you the right to tell me what i should or shouldn't believe?

right ?? humm well this comes to mind "

GALATIANS
6 :1 Brothers, even if a man takes a false step before he is aware of it, you who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness.

if I save your life good for me ,if I save your life good for you . but what if I don't try ? then what ?

 

[Kolibri]

if I don't try ? then what ?

Then Ezekiel 3:18-21 becomes more than a warning. With knowledge, skill, humility, and a lack of hypocrisy comes responsibility. But not one that is generally burdensome.