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Can someone explain the Trinity please...

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Who spoke the words? There is a fine line between the meaning of the "word" and "scriptures." Which scriptural references... The OT? Is the gospel in the OT also?

These were Jews. What were their Scriptures? Was it not Genesis to Malachi, according to how we order them today? Are there not hundreds of scriptures that point to the Christ as being Jesus? And many scriptures that back up Jesus' teachings?

In your reference to John 5, we need to examine verse 38 more closely. The scriptures do not kill, as you say. The Jews Jesus was speaking to refused to believe that Jesus was sent by God. God's word, or his thoughts, were not residing in these ones not because they rejected the spirit but because they rejected the truth about Jesus. Verse 43,44 says they were insisting that the Messiah to be one that came seeking the glory that comes from men. It was their insistence that blinded them from applying the Scriptures to Jesus. The scriptures themselves were not at fault.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
These were Jews. What were their Scriptures? Was it not Genesis to Malachi, according to how we order them today? Are there not hundreds of scriptures that point to the Christ as being Jesus? And many scriptures that back up Jesus' teachings?

In your reference to John 5, we need to examine verse 38 more closely. The scriptures do not kill, as you say. The Jews Jesus was speaking to refused to believe that Jesus was sent by God. God's word, or his thoughts, were not residing in these ones not because they rejected the spirit but because they rejected the truth about Jesus. Verse 43,44 says they were insisting that the Messiah to be one that came seeking the glory that comes from men. It was their insistence that blinded them from applying the Scriptures to Jesus. The scriptures themselves were not at fault.

Hebrews 4:12King James Version (KJV)
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Is this the bible or scriptures having the capability of doing this?
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
John 10:35King James Version (KJV)
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Why not, and "the word cannot be broken?" It's the same thing to you correct?

Who does the word of God come to?

the Greek in this passage is literally "and / not / is / able / to be loosed / the / Scripture."

while "broken" fits it, I am not sure if it is complete enough in modern english. The Byington Bible uses the word "invalidated" instead.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
the Greek in this passage is literally "and / not / is / able / to be loosed / the / Scripture."

while "broken" fits it, I am not sure if it is complete enough in modern english. The Byington Bible uses the word "invalidated" instead.

Are you telling me the only way I can know God is with a bible? He doesn't provide me with any of His spoken thoughts in my head to direct and guide my life? The bible tells me God's plans for my life?
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Hebrews 4:12King James Version (KJV)
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Is this the bible or scriptures having the capability of doing this?


Lets answer that question with another verse:

"However, become doers of the word and not hearers only deceiving yourselves with false reasoning. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, this one is like a man looking at his own face (or "his natural face.") in a mirror. For he looks at himself, and he goes away and immediately forgets what sort of person he is. But the one who peers into the perfect law (Ps 19:7) that belongs to freedom and continues in it has become, not a forgetful hearer; but a doer of the work; and he will be happy in what he does." - James 1:22-25

Here "the word" is linked to "the perfect law". What is the perfect law?

The law of Jehovah is perfect, restoring strength. (or "restoring (bringing back) the soul.")
The reminder of Jehovah is trustworthy, making the inexperienced one wise.
- Psalm 19:7

Where do we find Jehovah's laws and reminders that make us wise? Where did Timothy find wisdom?

"You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from whom you learned them and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." - 2 Timothy 3:14,15

Here we are wrapped around back to the combination of the holy writings (scriptures) and faith in Christ Jesus. The truth about salvation is only found in linking the scriptures to the Christ's real identity.

The Jews in general rejected Jesus, so their searching the scriptures could not lead to life. The ones from Beoria searched the very same scriptures and found life because they accepted Jesus as the Christ.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
the Greek in this passage is literally "and / not / is / able / to be loosed / the / Scripture."

while "broken" fits it, I am not sure if it is complete enough in modern english. The Byington Bible uses the word "invalidated" instead.

does the bible teach you about God or does God teach you the bible?
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Lets answer that question with another verse:

"However, become doers of the word and not hearers only deceiving yourselves with false reasoning. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, this one is like a man looking at his own face (or "his natural face.") in a mirror. For he looks at himself, and he goes away and immediately forgets what sort of person he is. But the one who peers into the perfect law (Ps 19:7) that belongs to freedom and continues in it has become, not a forgetful hearer; but a doer of the work; and he will be happy in what he does." - James 1:22-25

Here "the word" is linked to "the perfect law". What is the perfect law?

The law of Jehovah is perfect, restoring strength. (or "restoring (bringing back) the soul.")
The reminder of Jehovah is trustworthy, making the inexperienced one wise.
- Psalm 19:7

Where do we find Jehovah's laws and reminders that make us wise? Where did Timothy find wisdom?

"You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from whom you learned them and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." - 2 Timothy 3:14,15

Here we are wrapped around back to the combination of the holy writings (scriptures) and faith in Christ Jesus. The truth about salvation is only found in linking the scriptures to the Christ's real identity.

The Jews in general rejected Jesus, so their searching the scriptures could not lead to life. The ones from Beoria searched the very same scriptures and found life because they accepted Jesus as the Christ.


The scriptures are beauiful, when the Spirit teaches. I love the scriptures, and am blessed to have access to them. However, they provide no life and must not be used as an idol and a weapon of oppression or used and interpreted by man's own carnal mind and imagination.
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Are you telling me the only way I can know God is with a bible? He doesn't provide me with any of His spoken thoughts in my head to direct and guide my life? The bible tells me God's plans for my life?

"The conclusion of the matter, everything having been heard, is: Fear the true God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole obligation of man. For the true God will judge every deed, including every hidden thing, as to whether it is good or bad." - Ecc 12:13,14

Where do we find God's commandments? Again, is it not in the holy writings - extended now to include the Christian Greek Scriptures?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
not really. Blood can figuratively speak but not literally. We saw that in the case of Abel. He was not literally alive, and yet his shed blood 'cried out for justice'. Only here the blood is given "words" to understand what justice is being cried out for. The value of their lives was personified. This is a vision made up of symbols, no?
Are their symbols? Yes. Does that make everything a symbol? no
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
not saying you cant read . problem is .................your reading misinformation which is taking you down a false path
That would be an opinion. I would have many a great theologian who would agree with my position.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
you are right, it is improper to use the Bible as a club. It is however to be used as a sword.

"the sword of the spirit, that is, God's word." - Eph 6:17b

Revelation 19:13King James Version (KJV)
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

The bible has no means of protection to me. The Spirit, by all means does.

I understand what you're saying, but the bible contains words spoken by God and written down, thousands of years ago, but is not the living and active Word of God. The Word of God is Christ, who is Spirit, and not the bible. It certainly cannot keep up with times. The knowledge in this world has run rampant, the times are completely different from thousands upon thousands of years ago and only the Spirit, who is alive and active and has no subject to time, is of truth. The bible was not in the beginning nor does it speak, or hold the foundations of the world or is in all and through all, or is the final authority. God is authority. And He's been replaced with a book. The thoughts and will of God spoken to mankind. One will not hear these thoughts if they are living in vain. One could say since the bible speaks of no electricity, no technology...no internet, Or cars, etc. Then a man should not have any of this. We are told to sell all of our possessions. . Or one can simply say knowledge was made available to certain men and women who were inspired to create such things for the world. There is truth and inspiration revealed every day, that which is known. Through science, through many things that is ignored so mankind can hold on to their vain imaginations of whatsoever they want the scripture to say to suit them. The bible has become a Golden Calf. Not many know how to seek the Lord in purity and properly, because they are too busy idolizing a book and reading instead of hearing true wisdom by the master teacher and bringer of light and revelation. The bible or scripture is not a sword, God is the sword. The bible and scripture has been translated, endless times, through the hands of many many men who you know nothing about, and whom have changed, added, removed, and abused it all so much and yet your trust is still in this and men. You trust in all of that over the Spirit. There is one mediator, and it's not even who or what you think it is, or the bible. There is life and so much potential in you, and you choose to waste it in vain. If you could never have a bible again, would your life crumble, would you lose God, would it change you internally at all? Before I even knew what a bible was, I knew right from wrong. The commandments and laws are scribed and written deep in a man's heart, brain, and mind. We have that nature, our Creator designed is a certain way. We just choose ourselves and darkness through points of our lives until it consumes us and we are the walking dead without even realizing. To limit this author of life and the universe to a book is absolute audacity at its finest. You worship a book without even knowing it. A book and oneself is exalted. Faith "IN" Christ is not a belief, you genuinely have to be IN the Lord and since you have no idea that the Lord is in you or how so, it's all vanity. There is one God, and one access to God and it's IN you, and you must be IN that. You look up to the heavens and see nothing, you see the sky just as everyone else. When you see the heavenly places within you opened up, and that Spirit poured upon you, and reigning in your life, let me know. Trust me, you can't miss it when it happens. Learn what being IN the Lord means. Do you still believe that when you pray, that prayer goes to a man sitting in the sky, who relays that prayer to the Father who is sitting right next to Him? Do you know what the Godhead dwelling bodily means? I understand it's difficult, the NWT has eliminated any means of really amazing truth to create an all literal, outward, physical perspective on everything, paint a wonderful historical timeline and lesson, and that its blasphemous to go against the big wigs sitting in their NY corporate offices. . But your duty is not to please them, or yourself.
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Revelation 19:13King James Version (KJV)
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

The bible has no means of protection to me. The Spirit, by all means does.

I understand what you're saying, but the bible contains words spoken by God and written down, thousands of years ago, but is not the living and active Word of God. The Word of God is Christ, who is Spirit, and not the bible. It certainly cannot keep up with times. The knowledge in this world has run rampant, the times are completely different from thousands upon thousands of years ago and only the Spirit, who is alive and active and has no subject to time, is of truth. The bible was not in the beginning nor does it speak, or hold the foundations of the world or is in all and through all, or is the final authority. God is authority. And He's been replaced with a book. The thoughts and will of God spoken to mankind. One will not hear these thoughts if they are living in vain. One could say since the bible speaks of no electricity, no technology...no internet, Or cars, etc. Then a man should not have any of this. We are told to sell all of our possessions. . Or one can simply say knowledge was made available to certain men and women who were inspired to create such things for the world. There is truth and inspiration revealed every day, that which is known. Through science, through many things that is ignored so mankind can hold on to their vain imaginations of whatsoever they want the scripture to say to suit them. The bible has become a Golden Calf. Not many know how to seek the Lord in purity and properly, because they are too busy idolizing a book and reading instead of hearing true wisdom by the master teacher and bringer of light and revelation. The bible or scripture is not a sword, God is the sword. The bible and scripture has been translated, endless times, through the hands of many many men who you know nothing about, and whom have changed, added, removed, and abused it all so much and yet your trust is still in this and men. You trust in all of that over the Spirit. There is one mediator, and it's not even who or what you think it is, or the bible. There is life and so much potential in you, and you choose to waste it in vain. If you could never have a bible again, would your life crumble, would you lose God, would it change you internally at all? Before I even knew what a bible was, I knew right from wrong. The commandments and laws are scribed and written deep in a man's heart, brain, and mind. We have that nature, our Creator designed is a certain way. We just choose ourselves and darkness through points of our lives until it consumes us and we are the walking dead without even realizing. To limit this author of life and the universe to a book is absolute audacity at its finest. You worship a book without even knowing it. A book and oneself is exalted. Faith "IN" Christ is not a belief, you genuinely have to be IN the Lord and since you have no idea that the Lord is in you or how so, it's all vanity. There is one God, and one access to God and it's IN you, and you must be IN that. You look up to the heavens and see nothing, you see the sky just as everyone else. When you see the heavenly places within you opened up, and that Spirit poured upon you, and reigning in your life, let me know. Trust me, you can't miss it when it happens. Learn what being IN the Lord means. Do you still believe that when you pray, that prayer goes to a man sitting in the sky, who relays that prayer to the Father who is sitting right next to Him? Do you know what the Godhead dwelling bodily means? I understand it's difficult, the NWT has eliminated any means of really amazing truth to create an all literal, outward, physical perspective on everything, paint a wonderful historical timeline and lesson, and that its blasphemous to go against the big wigs sitting in their NY corporate offices. . But your duty is not to please them, or yourself.

While Jesus has the title "the Word of God". This does not negate Jehovah's written word as being valid. Psalm 119 references Jehovah's word(s) more than 20 times and uses synonym in its parallelisms of thought...law, reminders, orders, regulations, commandments, judicial decisions, statues, and sayings.

the word of God is the sword, God is not in our hands. We are the works of HIS hands. Again you are skipping things to fit your paradigm. But it is evident you really do not want to discuss scriptural truth as to you it is idolatry.

I think we are done here.
 

allfoak

Alchemist
When you make the two one, you produce a third.
The bringing together of opposites is one of the basic principles of life.
Without the third force that comes from the bringing together of the two, we would be hopelessly stuck in a divided state.

The Book that people call the Bible has been severely corrupted.
All anyone has to do is to take an honest look at all of the Scriptures that the "Church" has condemned as heresy and even the one's they did not.

Gospel of Thomas
saying 22
(22) Jesus saw some infants who were being suckled. He said to his disciples: These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom. They said to him: If we then become children, shall we enter the kingdom? Jesus said to them: When you make the two one, and when you make the inside as the outside, and the outside as the inside, and the upper as the lower, and when you make the male and the female into a single one, so that the male is not male and the female not female, and when you make eyes in place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then shall you enter [the kingdom].

1st Thessalonians 5:3
Now may the God of peace make you holy in every way, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ comes again.

Look at the Gospel of the Nazirenes
The acts of Peter
The epistles of Clement
The Gospel of Philip

...And on and on the list goes

All of these writings say something about the Trinity and it is nothing like the definition the Christians give us.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
When you make the two one, you produce a third.
The bringing together of opposites is one of the basic principles of life.
Without the third force that comes from the bringing together of the two, we would be hopelessly stuck in a divided state.

The Book that people call the Bible has been severely corrupted.
All anyone has to do is to take an honest look at all of the Scriptures that the "Church" has condemned as heresy and even the one's they did not.





Look at the Gospel of the Nazirenes
The acts of Peter
The epistles of Clement
The Gospel of Philip

...And on and on the list goes

All of these writings say something about the Trinity and it is nothing like the definition the Christians give us.

I love this allfoak, thank you. Beautiful stuff. Couldn't be any more true.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
When you make the two one, you produce a third.
The bringing together of opposites is one of the basic principles of life.
Without the third force that comes from the bringing together of the two, we would be hopelessly stuck in a divided state.

The Book that people call the Bible has been severely corrupted.
All anyone has to do is to take an honest look at all of the Scriptures that the "Church" has condemned as heresy and even the one's they did not.





Look at the Gospel of the Nazirenes
The acts of Peter
The epistles of Clement
The Gospel of Philip

...And on and on the list goes

All of these writings say something about the Trinity and it is nothing like the definition the Christians give us.
this is just a little over the top
naz_zpsrhni0r4m.png
 

davidedmorn

New Member
The word "trinity" is a term used to denote the Christian doctrine that God exists as a unity of three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each of the persons is distinct from the other yet identical in essence. In other words, each is fully divine in nature, but each is not the totality of the other persons of the Trinity.




Ten Commandments messages
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
The word "trinity" is a term used to denote the Christian doctrine that God exists as a unity of three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each of the persons is distinct from the other yet identical in essence. In other words, each is fully divine in nature, but each is not the totality of the other persons of the Trinity.




Ten Commandments messages
you forgot the part about all three being equal
 
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