Benjamin Netanyahu's statement actually offends me. Am I wromg to be offended?

[lunakilo]

So in the same way, a cartoonist was attacked. Since most who were killed were not cartoonists defaming Mohammed, cartoonists were not attacked so all others should feel absolutely safe. Are you really saying that, after a series of encounters in which there is a common identity thread, no others of the same group should worry? In the Charlie Hebdo case, others besides cartoonists were killed. So your sense is that other cartoonists should have felt targeted. If instead of one Jew having been killed while guarding a synagogue in Copenhagen, more Jews were killed so that the numbers reflected "main target" then, and only then, could someone characterize this as "Jews were attacked"? And if hypothetically someone firebombs an empty synagogue, and kills a policeman in the process, that means that Jews weren't targeted because "most people attacked" were not Jews. You have a strange way of quantifying who was attacked.

When one goes to a synagogue and fires at it, one is targeting Jews. If 3 people were killed at a cafe, and then in a separate incident, a Jew is killed in front of a synagogue, or people are shot in a kosher market, Jews are being targeted. Are others also being targeted? Sure. Who said they weren't. But when someone goes to a place associated with a group, it is clear that his intent is to attack that group. Firing shots at the capitol and killing 4 tourists from Iowa doesn't mean that the target wasn't politicianS.

Let me try one more time from the beginning.

You are correct that it is not the number of people dead and whether they were jewish of not which determines if this was an attack on Jews or not. And I am sure the shooter ment to kill Jews at that synagogue - and would have had the police not been there. Just as he probably ment to kill as many people at the debate meeting earlier - and would have had the police not been there.

My problem with the whole "this is an attack on Jews" way of looking at this, is that it ignores many parts of the picture. A lot more happened apart from the shooting at the synagogue, so why single that part out?

 

[rosends]

Let me try one more time from the beginning.

You are correct that it is not the number of people dead and whether they were jewish of not which determines if this was an attack on Jews or not. And I am sure the shooter ment to kill Jews at that synagogue - and would have had the police not been there. Just as he probably ment to kill as many people at the debate meeting earlier - and would have had the police not been there.

My problem with the whole "this is an attack on Jews" way of looking at this, is that it ignores many parts of the picture. A lot more happened apart from the shooting at the synagogue, so why single that part out?

Netanyahu singled them out because he is the leader of Israel. The head of a cartoonists' union would single cartoonists out. The police union might focus on the police losses. If an American was killed, the American president might acknowledge the entire event and then specifically speak about the American. None of this is surprising nor problematic. As a Jew, I can say that I won't draw any pictures of Mohammed (and thus avoid becoming a target in the future), but I can't stop being a Jew.

 

[Koldo]

So I need to track the logic behind each of your statements and the response? Do you have that much trouble following an adult conversation?

You said "They don't spit on you on the street in Melbourne either, nor do they get rockets fired at them." so I countered by showing the incidence (increasing) of anti-Semitic acts in Australia which would undercut your claim that things are all peaches and cream. You made a comment about the liklihood of a Jew being assaulted not because of his religion (a claim that you made no effort to back up, BTW).

Your response, instead of recognizing that there is a threat, was to diminish the incidents based on numbers as "tiny". You actually, at one point, cited only violent acts as that number which was presented even though the statistic was 7.5 times higher than what you cited. You reiterated that the population is not subject to a significant number of attacks so I pointed to quotes from the people who actually live there who disagree and say that not only is the number rising (something which you never conceded until post 152) but that it is cause for concern and calls into question your initial premise about the relative safety of living in Australia as a visible Jew. Instead of accepting the testimony of actual people who have to live there you insist that the incidence is tiny. Now, why would you insist that? Is it because you think that no matter the number, if the impact is as big as they say, there is merit in that? Or is it that you believe that the number, because it is, in your words a "tiny occurrence" still affords Jews there with a lifestyle that is free and comfortable. I didn't realize that calling the number "tiny" was your way of saying "significant" and "problematic" and "cause for concern."

So call names. Obfuscate. Avoid the issue. And by trying to point out your version of the numbers, feel free to diminish what the Jewish residents feel as quoted in a number of articles I posted. This isn't about interpretation. This is about what you have said. If you can't keep up, I can't help you with that.

Neat statistic, but old one -- in 1997, of the 556 crimes against persons assigned the title "hate crime based on religion" 453 were anti-Jewish. Even then, the percentage of all religion based hate crimes was disproportionately about Judaism.

Whether these people disagree is of no consequence unless you are calling into question the reliability of the numbers that you have provided yourself. Just compare the statistics with other crimes on Australia.

 

[rosends]

Whether these people disagree is of no consequence unless you are calling into question the reliability of the numbers that you have provided yourself. Just compare the statistics with other crimes on Australia.

I disagree -- there is consequence when you compare the numbers to identical categories over time. If there is an increase, regardless of the external issues, those within a group have the right to be concerned. The issue is the safety of Jews in Australia relative to their safety in the past in Australia, not relative to the safety of any other group in Australia.

 

[Koldo]

I disagree -- there is consequence when you compare the numbers to identical categories over time. If there is an increase, regardless of the external issues, those within a group have the right to be concerned. The issue is the safety of Jews in Australia relative to their safety in the past in Australia, not relative to the safety of any other group in Australia.

Of course a considerable increase on the numbers is worrisome. That I don't deny. However, this doesn't change the fact that these numbers are still tiny when taking into consideration the large scope.

 

[rosends]

Of course a considerable increase on the numbers is worrisome. That I don't deny. However, this doesn't change the fact that these numbers are still tiny when taking into consideration the large scope.

Maybe, but a person living within the community seeing a rise in one type of violence which targets him is not comforted by reassurances that there is also a lot of other violence elsewhere.

 

[metis]

I wonder if relocating all the Jews to one location is a good idea especially with certain enemies of Isreal developmenting nukes.

And this is of great concern as far as the future is concerned, which is why I don't believe all of us should go and live in Israel.

 

[metis]

If they think Israel is safer, they must not be thinking very hard.

But at least there our responses to threats are in our own hands. Our history has long told us that relying on protection from other governments was often hit-and-miss, especially during the many pogroms and then the countries that collaborated with the likes of the NAZI's, etc.

 

[Jumi]

Well this wasn't a "lone gunman" in the sense that he had a well known criminal gang to support him.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

What are you even talking about? What thousands of Palestinians or three dead Students?
Oh wait you mean completely separate incidents which have nothing to do with this one. I see we are already going the usual "look what they have done"-line.

Flanker, muslim lives dont matter?

 

[Imaginary_Friends]

Let me try one more time from the beginning.

You are correct that it is not the number of people dead and whether they were jewish of not which determines if this was an attack on Jews or not. And I am sure the shooter ment to kill Jews at that synagogue - and would have had the police not been there. Just as he probably ment to kill as many people at the debate meeting earlier - and would have had the police not been there.

My problem with the whole "this is an attack on Jews" way of looking at this, is that it ignores many parts of the picture. A lot more happened apart from the shooting at the synagogue, so why single that part out?

Your assessment is correct. What you witnessed was a Jewish Supremacist Freudian slip from Netanyahu. A sentiment shared by many Jews and the true source for so mistermed "anti-semtism".
This is a racist ideology that began with Judaism that, in a simplest form says "God made us best of all so F you all". Teachings that range from stating non-Jewish lives are trivial all the way to specific rules for keeping and selling slaves. Even though Israel has become more secular many still retain the Tribal/ Nationalist/ Ethnocentric ideology as evidenced from events and comments like Netanyahu's highlighting Jewish loss of life.

This doesn't pertain to all Jews. But how does one see it? Just like you witnessed. The Double Standard. This is seen most prominently by Liberal Jews living outside Isreal. Jews who will grab a box of tissues at the death of a criminal teen who forcibly robs a store and attempts to kill a police officer by commandeering his weapon yet will support a country (Israel) that machine guns down Palestinian children for throwing a rock at a tank. Yeah we get it. "Isreal has a right to defend itself". Ad nauseum.

Note he rarely makes these calls for American Jews. Some do, but far less emphatically.

Someone has to stay and man the war machine. Europe is closer but they have wised up to the ruse.

List of prominent Jewish Neocons

 

[metis]

Your assessment is correct. What you witnessed was a Jewish Supremacist Freudian slip from Netanyahu. A sentiment shared by many Jews and the true source for so mistermed "anti-semtism".
This is a racist ideology that began with Judaism that, in a simplest form says "God made us best of all so F you all". Teachings that range from stating non-Jewish lives are trivial all the way to specific rules for keeping and selling slaves. Even though Israel has become more secular many still retain the Tribal/ Nationalist/ Ethnocentric ideology as evidenced from events and comments like Netanyahu's highlighting Jewish loss of life.

This doesn't pertain to all Jews. But how does one see it? Just like you witnessed. The Double Standard. This is seen most prominently by Liberal Jews living outside Isreal. Jews who will grab a box of tissues at the death of a criminal teen who forcibly robs a store and attempts to kill a police officer by commandeering his weapon yet will support a country (Israel) that machine guns down Palestinian children for throwing a rock at a tank. Yeah we get it. "Isreal has a right to defend itself". Ad nauseum.



Someone has to stay and man the war machine. Europe is closer but they have wised up to the ruse.

List of prominent Jewish Neocons

What a bigoted piece of trash the above is.

 

[Imaginary_Friends]

What a bigoted piece of trash the above is.

Thanks for your in-depth concise response. We appreciate your ad hominem participation. So Jews cant be bigots and to say so make one a bigot?

OP do you see my point?

 

[rosends]

Your assessment is correct. What you witnessed was a Jewish Supremacist Freudian slip from Netanyahu. A sentiment shared by many Jews and the true source for so mistermed "anti-semtism".
This is a racist ideology that began with Judaism that, in a simplest form says "God made us best of all so F you all". Teachings that range from stating non-Jewish lives are trivial all the way to specific rules for keeping and selling slaves. Even though Israel has become more secular many still retain the Tribal/ Nationalist/ Ethnocentric ideology as evidenced from events and comments like Netanyahu's highlighting Jewish loss of life.

This doesn't pertain to all Jews. But how does one see it? Just like you witnessed. The Double Standard. This is seen most prominently by Liberal Jews living outside Isreal. Jews who will grab a box of tissues at the death of a criminal teen who forcibly robs a store and attempts to kill a police officer by commandeering his weapon yet will support a country (Israel) that machine guns down Palestinian children for throwing a rock at a tank. Yeah we get it. "Isreal has a right to defend itself". Ad nauseum.



Someone has to stay and man the war machine. Europe is closer but they have wised up to the ruse.

List of prominent Jewish Neocons

You are completely wrong. Nothing says anything about "supremacy" or "best" other than your post. So is what you write a projection of your own sense of inadequacy and inferiority? Is it an invention used to rationalize your bigotry and racism? Is it some displaced anger that you have yet to deal with? I don't know.

I do know that you are wrong and more than a bit paranoid.

 

[CMike]

Illustrated the point rather nicely...

Israeli captures 10 hours of harassment in Paris | The Times of Israel

 

[Sapiens]

Since I am not a jew I don't think Netanyahus invitation was for me

Then why are you offended? I am not a Jew, I am not offended, he is just a politician making minor hay as the sun shines.

 

[Flankerl]

Israeli legislative election, 2015 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Israeli legislative election, 2015 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Israeli legislative election, 2015 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Israeli legislative election, 2015 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Israeli legislative election, 2015 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Israeli legislative election, 2015 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Israeli legislative election, 2015 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Israeli legislative election, 2015 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Israeli legislative election, 2015 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Israeli legislative election, 2015 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Israeli legislative election, 2015 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Israeli legislative election, 2015 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Flanker, muslim lives dont matter?

"HEY GUYS LOOK WHAT ISRAEL DID WHICH I NOW MENTION IN THIS THREAD EVEN THOUGH ITS NOT RELATED AT ALL!"

 

[Flankerl]

@lunakilo
There start being offended.

TV: Blomster bliver fjernet i respekt for den politidræbte - Local Eyes

You know the Danish Jews can move to Israel once things get too bad, but you are destined to live in your "enriched" Denmark.

 

[rosends]

@lunakilo
There start being offended.

TV: Blomster bliver fjernet i respekt for den politidræbte - Local Eyes

You know the Danish Jews can move to Israel once things get too bad, but you are destined to live in your "enriched" Denmark.

Am I really seeing what I think I am seeing?

 

[Flankerl]

Am I really seeing what I think I am seeing?

Yes leftist Danes laid down flowers for the killed terrorist.
Some Muslims came and said that was haram.

They even went all Takbir.