J
johnpeter1970
Guest
You still don't get it!?
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. (John 5:18)
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If Jesus was God, explain this verse...
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You still don't get it!?
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. (John 5:18)
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe Jesus teaches us that He is God and if Christianity or Christendom believe Him all the better.
I believe The Son of God is God. It can be no other way.
Rev 1v5 says that Jesus is the Firstborn of the dead. I believe this has nothing to do with the Spirit of God that is in Jesus but refers to the body. Jesus is both.
Rev 3v14 does say the beginning of the the creation by God but I believe this does not refer to the body because it did not exist in the beginning and therefore must refer to the Spirit of God who is the beginning of creation for nothing is created without God.
I believe this does not prove your point since none of this proves that God in Jesus had a beginning only that the flesh had a beginning.
I believe this is totally illogical since God exists thoughout time, He is at the beginning also. The verse does not say that Jesus has a beginning but only that He is the beginning. That is what God is. Also the verse does not say that Jesus was not before the beginning.
I believe God is His God.
Yes, God is the God of or over Jesus - Rev. 3 v 12
Jesus and God are Not brothers, but God is Father and Jesus is His Son whom God sent to us.
Revelation 1 v 5 calls Jesus the faithful witness, thus Jesus is that witness of Rev. 3 v 14
The angels, which are Not flesh, definitely had a beginning.
Angelic creation was created before the material world- Job 38 vs 4,7
According to Psalm 90 v 2 God is from everlasting or before the beginning of anything.
Jesus was ' in the beginning ', Not: He is the beginning. Only God was before the beginning. Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
Yes, the Jews are saying making himself equal to God which was in reply to John 5 v 17 where Jesus just said that his Father works and I [ Jesus ] work. So, being equal in works - John 6 vs 28,29. God is greater according to John 14 v 28 so Jesus got his powerful works from God.
Jesus even went as far as to say at John 10 v 29 that His Father is greater than all.
So, God is greater than Jesus, and God is greater than all is why the heavenly resurrected Jesus still thinks he has a God over him according to Rev. 3 v 12
Muffled
Jesus in me
I beleive the only way to be equal to God is to be God.
This is illogical. The conclusion does not folow from the premise. It is jsut as reasonable that Jesus does the works because He is God.
I believe this verse says no such thing. You must have the wrong verse and certainly the rwrong interpretation of it.
This is illogical because your conclusion does not follow from the premises.
I believe you still have a misinterpretaion.
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Jesus is not God. He is not co-equal. He was born. The bible tells us that he was made like us. His brethern. Hebrews 2, along with many other books in the bible, tells us that he was just like us in nature. God was his Father, but he was also the son of man. David was also his father. Read Mathew 1. Read 2 Samuel 7. David even knew that someone from him would be the Messiah. Very simple to understand. Jesus had to conquer sin in the flesh. Which he did. If he was God, that would not even make sense. Trinity is false doctrine and totally degrades our Creator!!!!
Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
God really did come in the flesh as a Man.
He was made human in everyway.
Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh. He was found in appearance as a man. Jesus was made like a man.
Philippians 2:7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
Philippians 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death-- even death on a cross!
2 Corinthians 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.
Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people
Romans 1:3 regarding his Son, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David,
Romans 8:3
For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Romans 8v3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:"
Thank you for posting this. This just shows that Jesus is not God. Thank you for that. This tells us that he was like us. No trinity here my friend!!! Jesus had our nature. Scripture even tells us that, here and in Hebrews 2. Could Jesus have sinned if he wanted to? Of course he could have! But he chose not to. He overcame his feelings for the flesh because God was working "thru" His son!! If Jesus is God, why does God work thru Jesus? Why does Jesus say that he cant do anything without God's help?
"Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is ONE Lord" (Deuteronomy 6:4)
Jesus, when asked what was the FIRST commandment of all, referred to these inspired words of Moses:
"The first of all commandments is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is One Lord" (Mark 12:29).
Paul taught exactly the same to the Corinthians -
"There is but One God, the Father, of Whom are all things, and we in Him -- AND one Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Corinthians 8:6)
Note especially that, first, he says there is one God; and that, besides that One God, there is the Lord Jesus Christ. Clearly this shows that Jesus is not part of the One supreme God. Jesus himself constantly addresses God as "Father"; prays to Him, says he himself can do nothing: Jesus can only say and do as the Father instructs him.
Note again the clear and careful distinction Paul makes between the "One God" and "the MAN Christ Jesus". Christ is the mediator between the One God and mankind. He is not part of the One God. He is spoken of as something other than the One God. He is spoken of, even in his present glorified immortalized state, as a man.
Also keep in mind that God made Jesus lower than the angels. Heb 2 v 7-9
"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me" (John v, 30).
"My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me" (John vii, 16).
Romans 6v 8-10 "And if we died with Christ, we believe that we also shall live with him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised up out of the dead, doth no more die, death over him hath no more lordship;
10 for in that he died, to the sin he died once, and in that he liveth, he liveth to God;"
Thank you for posting this. This just shows that Jesus is not God. Thank you for that. This tells us that he was like us. No trinity here my friend!!! Jesus had our nature. Scripture even tells us that, here and in Hebrews 2. Could Jesus have sinned if he wanted to? Of course he could have! But he chose not to. He overcame his feelings for the flesh because God was working "thru" His son!! If Jesus is God, why does God work thru Jesus? Why does Jesus say that he cant do anything without God's help?
"Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is ONE Lord" (Deuteronomy 6:4)
Jesus, when asked what was the FIRST commandment of all, referred to these inspired words of Moses:
"The first of all commandments is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is One Lord" (Mark 12:29).
Paul taught exactly the same to the Corinthians -
"There is but One God, the Father, of Whom are all things, and we in Him -- AND one Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Corinthians 8:6)
Note especially that, first, he says there is one God; and that, besides that One God, there is the Lord Jesus Christ. Clearly this shows that Jesus is not part of the One supreme God. Jesus himself constantly addresses God as "Father"; prays to Him, says he himself can do nothing: Jesus can only say and do as the Father instructs him.
Note again the clear and careful distinction Paul makes between the "One God" and "the MAN Christ Jesus". Christ is the mediator between the One God and mankind. He is not part of the One God. He is spoken of as something other than the One God. He is spoken of, even in his present glorified immortalized state, as a man.
Also keep in mind that God made Jesus lower than the angels. Heb 2 v 7-9
"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me" (John v, 30).
"My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me" (John vii, 16).
Romans 6v 8-10 "And if we died with Christ, we believe that we also shall live with him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised up out of the dead, doth no more die, death over him hath no more lordship;
10 for in that he died, to the sin he died once, and in that he liveth, he liveth to God;"
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Jesus had the Spirit of God in Him. He was a man, but God manifested Himself via the Spirit, unto Mary, hence Jesus. And why Jesus was worshipped even at birth.
These verses look like metaphor, to me, anyway.
Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
I believe in three, but I am not a trinitarian believer.
God calls Jesus His Son because Jesus came from God. What do you call the people who came from you?
God came as a Man, and was raised as any other human, except that Jesus is no mere human. Jesus is God come in the flesh. Jesus did not have a human as a biological father. Jesus’ Father is God Himself.
There is no mere human who has not sinned. Jesus is no mere human. The only time Jesus experienced temptation was the time in the desert. Jesus experienced this so that he could understand us better.
Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
Hebrews 4:1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
Our God is One. Jesus is God come in the flesh. If this were not so, then God would not be One, but rather , two, and even three, because the Holy Spirit
Our God is One. Jesus is God come in the flesh. If this were not so, then God would not be One, but rather , two, and even three, because the Holy Spirit is also God.
There are three, and the three are One and the same. One even means "the same".
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moorea944
Well-Known Member
#790
I dont understand some of your words. Your not a trinitarian, but you believe in the trinity? I dont get that one.....
Plus, I never said that Jesus was a mere man. He was man, yes, but God was his father. Mary was his mother. He also comes from the line of David. God was working "thru" Jesus. This is how he could defeat sin.
[Our God is One. Jesus is God come in the flesh. If this were not so, then God would not be One, but rather , two, and even three, because the Holy Spirit]
That completely doesnt make any sense!! God is one. Why are you adding to it????
I dont understand some of your words. Your not a trinitarian, but you believe in the trinity? I dont get that one.....
Plus, I never said that Jesus was a mere man. He was man, yes, but God was his father. Mary was his mother. He also comes from the line of David. God was working "thru" Jesus. This is how he could defeat sin.
[Our God is One. Jesus is God come in the flesh. If this were not so, then God would not be One, but rather , two, and even three, because the Holy Spirit]
That completely doesnt make any sense!! God is one. Why are you adding to it????
Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
There are three, and the three are One and the same.
Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God.
Jesus is God and Jesus is the Holy Spirit.
God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all One and the same.
Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
That is right, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Lord. Have you now come to believe the truth that Jesus is the Holly Spirit, and Jesus is God?
Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
Jesus is the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is a life giving Spirit, see 1 Corinthians 15:45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.
Did you read that scripture? That scripture says Jesus is a SPIRIT.
This scripture says the Spirit gives life; see 2 Corinthians 3:6. Jesus gives life! John 5:21.
Read this scripture:
2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
That scripture SAYS the Lord is the Spirit.
Jesus is the Spirit. Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17 all tell us Jesus is the Spirit.
Simplelogic
Well-Known Member
The instances where Yeshua appeared to sound like he was God the Father Himself are relatively few. But one cannot read the gospels or the book of Revelation without getting the picture over and over again that Yeshua looked up to God as his Father, and did not consider himself equal to Him. There are a number of times where he outright said so, even calling God his God. Here are a few examples.
"You have heard me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you,' If you loved me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for my Father is greater than I." John 14:28
Yahshua said to her, "Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.'" John 20:17
And at the ninth hour Yahshua cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?" Mark 15:34
"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, And I will write on him my new name." Revelation 3:12
And from Revelation, John himself reaffirms that YHVH is Yeshua's God.
...and from Yahshua the Messiah, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth, To him who loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood, and has made us a kingdom of priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Revelation 1:5,6
There is also in the book of Revelation these interesting words of Yeshua concerning himself.
"And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:" Revelation 3:14
Yeshua's own testimony concerning himself appears to indicate that he had a beginning in that he was the first of God's creations. But however one wants to interpret this, it is evident that Yahshua is in some way, the creation of YHWH, and therefore not YHWH Himself.
"You have heard me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you,' If you loved me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for my Father is greater than I." John 14:28
Yahshua said to her, "Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.'" John 20:17
And at the ninth hour Yahshua cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?" Mark 15:34
"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, And I will write on him my new name." Revelation 3:12
And from Revelation, John himself reaffirms that YHVH is Yeshua's God.
...and from Yahshua the Messiah, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth, To him who loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood, and has made us a kingdom of priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Revelation 1:5,6
There is also in the book of Revelation these interesting words of Yeshua concerning himself.
"And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:" Revelation 3:14
Yeshua's own testimony concerning himself appears to indicate that he had a beginning in that he was the first of God's creations. But however one wants to interpret this, it is evident that Yahshua is in some way, the creation of YHWH, and therefore not YHWH Himself.