Muhammad's Troubling Marriages to Aisha and Safiyah

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Are you hot girl your mother from your father because you did not see؟ظظظ
The directory is documents
And the same is with Muhammad marrying Aisha
Muslim wrote

 

[morphesium]

....................

...... in other countries.Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activist| Reuters

and in my eyes, adult men who want to marry and have sex with little girls are disgusting swines.

so...how can Muslim people even think they can adapt sharia to our laws? In my country no Muslim will ever be allowed to apply sharia, because sharia is worth less than zero before the law of my country.

I believe every man has morale and is capable of right and virtuous living. Ask any man with common sense and morale about this child marriage and he will disagree with it, will say it is an evil. So why is it much prevalent in the Muslim countries or Muslim occupied ares and why are they justifying it?
The reason I believe is this - Each Muslims has to undergo or attend severe and frequent religious classes/ preachings and these things start from a very low age -much before than they have acquired the ability to make a rational and logical opinion/decision. They brainwash them to make them believe that Mr. Mohammed is Mr. Right, the most perfect man. They sanctify his evil acts in all possible ways. They cripple their thinking power so that they can accept anything that a normally sane person wont.
They teach them that it is all according to God's wishes and that they are trying to live like Mohammed( may Peace be upon him).
Now what happens if one keeps a pedophilic war maniac as ones idol and starts to follow him? That is exactly what is happening in much of the Muslim world.
Again, what if someone among them happens to be virtuous enough to say that child marriage is an evil thing - He is burnt alive for blasphemy. Will they ever come out of the box?

 

[Al-Fatihah]

all right...we are not doubting that. I would never dare criticize the lifestyle of a prophet, given that historical sources can be wrong and besides, I've great respect towards prophets of all religions.

But, talking about the present age, the 21st century and talking about the secular law of all European and American countries, a 40 year old man that wants to marry a 10 year old girl (or a 12 year old girl, it doesn't matter) is a pedophile before the law. And he's a criminal.
and the law of my country will send him to jail, where he belongs.

An adult man who marries a 8 year old girl and on the wedding night he has sex with her, he's a criminal. A potential murderer. Because he can kill her by penetrating her, as happened in Yemen and in other countries.Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activist| Reuters

and in my eyes, adult men who want to marry and have sex with little girls are disgusting swines.

so...how can Muslim people even think they can adapt sharia to our laws? In my country no Muslim will ever be allowed to apply sharia, because sharia is worth less than zero before the law of my country.

Response: There is no harm in consensual sex in marriage with someone who has reached maturity and puberty, nor can you name any harm. Thus your own failure to do so supports the fact that Islamic marriages are just. Whereas, when we adopt the secular laws or marriage, the age of marriage varies from country to country. So one can be legally married in one place, then move somewhere else and be considered a pedophile. Therefore, pedophilia is not based on any moral reasoning, but based on geography. Showing the complete irrationality of European and American law on pedophilia.

 

[Draupadi]

When it comes to marrying a child the Prophet accepted the norm. Cool. But when it came to giving the status of son to his adopted son Zaid, a harmless convention prevalent still today throughout the world he backs off. The reason I get from the Quran is that Zaid was not his biological son. So? Zaid loved Muhammad to death. He even refused to go with his father when he came to take his son back after hearing he was freed. He was among the first to accept Islam. Where did he go wrong?

 

[Estro Felino]

Response: There is no harm in consensual sex in marriage with someone who has reached maturity and puberty, nor can you name any harm. Thus your own failure to do so supports the fact that Islamic marriages are just. Whereas, when we adopt the secular laws or marriage, the age of marriage varies from country to country. So one can be legally married in one place, then move somewhere else and be considered a pedophile. Therefore, pedophilia is not based on any moral reasoning, but based on geography. Showing the complete irrationality of European and American law on pedophilia.

Yes....so it is just and holy that a 8 year old girl dies on the wedding night for internal bleeding?
we Europeans and Americans are irrational? we just listen to physicians and gynecologists who tell us that pregnancies for 12 year old girl are very very dangerous.

All the users from Europe and the US are reading what you wrote. That you consider normal that an adult man marries a little girl.
Besides....Islamic countries are free to apply their laws and decide what is lawful and what is not.
There would be no problem if lots of Muslims didn't come to Europe.
They do. So they must respect our laws and if they want to get married according to our laws, they can only marry 18 year old women.
Period.

The funny thing is that the Islamic countries all disagree on the age of consent.
Europe and America, two immense territories if put together, all agree on the age of consent

 

[Al-Fatihah]

Yes....so it is just and holy that a 8 year old girl dies on the wedding night for internal bleeding?
we Europeans and Americans are irrational? we just listen to physicians and gynecologists who tell us that pregnancies for 12 year old girl are very very dangerous.

All the users from Europe and the US are reading what you wrote. That you consider normal that an adult man marries a little girl.
Besides....Islamic countries are free to apply their laws and decide what is lawful and what is not.
There would be no problem if lots of Muslims didn't come to Europe.
They do. So they must respect our laws and if they want to get married according to our laws, they can only marry 18 year old women.
Period.

The funny thing is that the Islamic countries all disagree on the age of consent.
Europe and America, two immense territories if put together, all agree on the age of consent

Response: And no physician or psychologists says that it is wrong or harmful to have consensual sex on marriage with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Therefore, even your own psychologists and physicians support the fact that Islamic marriages is just. Yet your secular law shows to be a hypocrite, since the age of marriage and consent varies from state to state. Therefore, it is illogical and completely absurd. How can a person be a pedophile, then move to another state and all of a sudden not be one just because they moved? It makes no sense. Your law says a pedophile is not based on morals, physicians, or gynecologists. It's based on geography. Thereby exposing and refuting your secular. Not Islam.

 

[Estro Felino]

Response: And no physician or psychologists says that it is wrong or harmful to have consensual sex on marriage with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Therefore, even your own psychologists and physicians support the fact that Islamic marriages is just. Yet your secular law shows to be a hypocrite, since the age of marriage and consent varies from state to state. Therefore, it is illogical and completely absurd. How can a person be a pedophile, then move to another state and all of a sudden not be one just because they moved? It makes no sense. Your law says a pedophile is not based on morals, physicians, or gynecologists. It's based on geography. Thereby exposing and refuting your secular. Not Islam.

Muslim pedophiles are free to do whatever they want. They are free to marry little girls wherever they want. As long as they do it outside of my country

 

[Al-Fatihah]

Muslim pedophiles are free to do whatever they want. They are free to have sex with little girls wherever they want. As long as they do it outside of my country

Response: If they are free to do what they want, it's because your secular European nation allows it. Exposing the perversion of your secular law. Not Islam.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

When it comes to marrying a child the Prophet accepted the norm. Cool. But when it came to giving the status of son to his adopted son Zaid, a harmless convention prevalent still today throughout the world he backs off. The reason I get from the Quran is that Zaid was not his biological son. So? Zaid loved Muhammad to death. He even refused to go with his father when he came to take his son back after hearing he was freed. He was among the first to accept Islam. Where did he go wrong?

Response: The answer is in your question. A son is the biological male child of a parent. Muhammad was not Zaid's biological parent. Therefore, he is not his son.

 

[Estro Felino]

Response: If they are free to do what they want, it's because your secular European nation allows it. Exposing the perversion of your secular law. Not Islam.

wait a minute. In the previous post, you said that it's sharia which allows adult men to marry 12 year old girls.
now you say it's the secular law of my country which allows it.

No, dear. The secular law of my country would immediately arrest a 40 year old man who has sex with a 12 year old girl
Sexual relations with underage girl, art. 609 quater Penal Code.

Even if the man in question is married to this girl according to the sharia.

 

[morphesium]

Response: And no physician or psychologists says that it is wrong or harmful to have consensual sex on marriage with one who reaches maturity and puberty. Therefore, even your own psychologists and physicians support the fact that Islamic marriages is just. Yet your secular law shows to be a hypocrite, since the age of marriage and consent varies from state to state. Therefore, it is illogical and completely absurd. How can a person be a pedophile, then move to another state and all of a sudden not be one just because they moved? It makes no sense. Your law says a pedophile is not based on morals, physicians, or gynecologists. It's based on geography. Thereby exposing and refuting your secular. Not Islam.

Yes, i do agree that the age of marriage and consent varies from country to country, but in all these cases this age is above the age of physical maturity. So saying 18 years in one country and 21 in the other doesn't matter because either way, it is much above 10 or 12 (or much less) and the female is a women not a kid. Moreover, nobody sees a man to be a pedophile if he marries an 19 year old girl and moves to a country which has a legal age of 21. you got to understand who is a baby, a kid and a woman. Only then you can make civilized decisions.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

wait a minute. In the previous post, you said that it's sharia which allows adult men to marry 12 year old girls.
now you say it's the secular law of my country which allows it.

No, dear. The secular law of my country would immediately arrest a 40 year old man who has sex with a 12 year old girl
Sexual relations with underage girl, art. 609 quater Penal Code.

Even if the man in question is married to this girl according to the sharia.
The sharia is worth less than zero in my country

Response: Not a single post of mine can you quote me saying that sharia law allows men to marry 12 year old girls. Thus your strawman is invalid. What was clearly is that Islam teaches that sex is only allowed through consent in marriage with one who has reached maturity and puberty. The fact that you still can find no harm in this shows that Islam is just. While your secular law that provides different ages of consent in different states shows that pedophilia is not based on morality, but geography. Showing that Europe has no moral ground in regards to pedophilia since according to Europe, it's okay to be a pedophile. Just not in certain states. Exposing your country's laws. Not Islam.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

Yes, i do agree that the age of marriage and consent varies from country to country, but in all these cases this age is above the age of physical maturity. So saying 18 years in one country and 21 in the other doesn't matter because either way, it is much above 10 or 12 (or much less) and the female is a women not a kid. Moreover, nobody sees a man to be a pedophile if he marries an 19 year old girl and moves to a country which has a legal age of 21. you got to understand who is a baby, a kid and a woman. Only then you can make civilized decisions.

Response: An adult is not determined by an age number, nor is physical or mental maturity. Nonetheless, Islam only allows consensual sex in marriage when one reaches maturity and puberty. So the argument of stating the maturity level of a 10 or 12 year old is irrelevant, since nothing in Islam says that it is okay to have sex based on an age number.

 

[Estro Felino]

Response: Not a single post of mine can you quote me saying that sharia law allows men to marry 12 year old girls. Thus your strawman is invalid. What was clearly is that Islam teaches that sex is only allowed through consent in marriage with one who has reached maturity and puberty. The fact that you still can find no harm in this shows that Islam is just.

Of course I find harm in that. The law of my country does. The consent is absolutely irrelevant if an adult man (let's say, a 35 year old man) marries a consenting 13 year old girl. and a 13 year old girl has already reached puberty, in most cases.
so the man in question is a pedophile, and he will be sentenced to jail. the consent of a 13 year old girl is juridically irrelevant. Even if she's his wife according to the sharia or whatever

I want to remind you that, according to the law of my country:
- you cannot marry a woman unless she is 18 years old
- the age of consent for sexual activity is 14 years old. In other words, if an adult man has sex with a 13 years old girl, even if she is consenting, he will be sentenced to jail

Source: art. 409 quater Penal code. IR

 

[arthra]

I've seen this topic repeatedly..and it's interesting that it comes up as often as it does... We should also probably be aware of the condition of marriage and relations between men and women that obtain in our own countries before setting ourselves up as a judge of people who lived over five centuries ago..

And in the case of Muhammad it's interesting to discuss His first marriage to Khadijih:

Khadijih was a good deal older than Muhammad according to tradition she was forty years of age...and note it was a twenty year marriage ..a monogamous marriage which was rare at the time.. The marriages that occurred later were for several reasons..such as affairs of state,

The age of Aisha as six or eight years is questionable...

(1) The tradition itself was composed well after a century of the supposed event...

(2) There was no standard calendar in use among Muslims until under the caliphate of Omar...People didn't observe birthdays and we don't know for sure how old these people really were.. IF Khadijih was really forty years of age when she married Muhammad and she had three children in the marriage she would be quite unusual..even today with medical science as we have it this would be unusual.

(3) There is a tradition that is often overlooked that has Aisha well past puberty when her marriage supposed to have occurred.. I'll cite it here:


Volume 1, Book 8, Number 465:

Narrated 'Aisha:

(the wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents
following Islam since I attained the age of
puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet
visited us, both in the mornings and evenings. My
father Abii Bakr thought of building a mosque in
the courtyard of his house and he did so. He
used to pray and recite the Qur'án in it. The
pagan women and their children used to stand by
him and look at him with surprise. Abu Bakr was
a Softhearted person and could not help weeping
while reciting the Quran. The chiefs of the
Quraish pagans became afraid of that (i.e. that
their children and women might be affected by
the recitation of Quran)."

(Hadith, Bukhari Vol 1)


The above tradition suggests that Aisha had reached the age of puberty while she still lived with her parents before the marriage with the Prophet. Since Muhammad left Mecca in 622 A.D. and all accounts agree that the marriage was not consummated until two years after the hijra, around 624 A.D. Aisha must have been older than supposed.

(4) There is also the prejudiced attitudes toward Muhammad and Islam that have been stirring in the West for centuries..

 

[Al-Fatihah]

Of course I find harm in that. The law of my country does. The consent is absolutely irrelevant if an adult man (let's say, a 35 year old man) marries a consenting 13 year old girl. and a 13 year old girl has already reached puberty, in most cases.
so the man in question is a pedophile, and he will be sentenced to jail. the consent of a 13 year old girl is juridically irrelevant. Even if she's his wife according to the sharia or whatever

I want to remind you that, according to the law of my country:
- you cannot marry a woman unless she is 18 years old
- the age of consent for sexual activity is 14 years old. In other words, if an adult man has sex with a 13 years old girl, even if she is consenting, he will be sentenced to jail

Source: art. 409 quater Penal code. IR

Response: No one said a 13 year old. So your redundant strawman continues to fail. I said one who reaches maturity and puberty. So responding by referring to a 13 year old, when no one ever mentioned an age number or a 13 year old, shows the weakness in your response and only continues to show that you cannot find any fault or harm in Islamic law. More amusing is that your own law supports the fact that Islam is just. For if asked why it is wrong to have sex with a 13 year old, your answer is because they are not mature, which means it is only right to have sex with one who is mature. Exactly what Islam says. Your logic is invalid as usual.

 

[Estro Felino]

Response: No one said a 13 year old. So your redundant strawman continues to fail. I said one who reaches maturity and puberty. So responding by referring to a 13 year old, when no one ever mentioned an age number or a 13 year old, shows the weakness in your response and only continues to show that you cannot find any fault or harm in Islamic law. As for your law, you have shown yourself that it's based on a age number, not whether they are mature. Thereby exposing the perversion of your secular law. Not Islam.

I am curious to know what you think "puberty" means. in other words, when a girl reaches puberty

 

[Al-Fatihah]

I am curious to know what you think "puberty" means. in other words, when a girl reaches puberty

Response: It means exactly how a dictionary defines it.

 

[Estro Felino]

Response: It means exactly how a dictionary defines it.

the dictionary says that a girl starts puberty when she gets her first period. so...let's say that a girl has her first period when she's 12.

Can she get married according to the sharia?

 

[Al-Fatihah]

the dictionary says that a girl starts puberty when she gets her first period. so...let's say that a girl has her first period when she's 12.

Can she get married according to the sharia?

Response: Marriage in Islam can occur when one reaches maturity. If a 12 year old is mature, then she can be married. Yet only when she reaches maturity and puberty can a couple began sexual relations, provided that there is consent.