Muhammad's Troubling Marriages to Aisha and Safiyah

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Cultural relativism are defense in such cases.

In the seventeenth century the legal age to marry at England for women was 12. Was that a crime. Go ahead and enlighten me.

If you want to evaluate the acts of the prophet go read a biography about him before you come to your conclusions. Read about his whole life and don't cherry pick out of context things that would fit your agenda.

The drownedtrying tosave himself
Even if attached with a leaf
This is another attempt to rescue the morality of Muhammad
There are previous attempts
1. try to gloss over the age of Aisha
2. try to remove all the old Islamic books
3. try to justify this Act provides that for the purposes of social and humanitarian
4. the other
He says one answer؟؟؟
Cultural relativism???
This new theory on the marriage of Aisha
And I tell you
God has nocultural relativism
From the beginning
The childisa child
To completeits members
And his mind
Even Islamic law binds the blog through the completion of those Member
U-God fixed
O-words of God fixed
The-Prophetcorrect
Ischangingthesocial lawsfor the better
And laws commensurate with the holiness of God
L.m.did not
T-Muhammadactedlikeother men
N-search through his lust and sexual orientation
M-Aishais the daughter ofAbu Bakr
And nick named Dave
He married daughters of the Prophet Muhammad
(Kalthoum-thepaper)
For this reason, Muhammad married the daughter of Abu Bakr
This is called (alshagar girl)
Which give you a girl and give me a wife
M-can not establish cultural relativism
Asifcultural relativismis true
This means that the Roman law
The code of Justinian
Written during the fifth century adbetter than the laws of Quran
As it known the legal age
The 18-year and according to my information
S. Islam and is the word of God
Was not able to achieve that human development
9. cultural relativity means back wardness of Islamic laws
And invalid at this time

 

[Shad]

Did they even have consensual age laws in those days?

Most cultures had an age of consent. However it is hard to track how well it was applied in laws since surviving documentation is rare the further back in history one goes. At times consent was restricted to an age, at times to previous ignorant assumptions of what qualifies maturity.

 

[ginaleanne]

The drownedtrying tosave himself
Even if attached with a leaf
This is another attempt to rescue the morality of Muhammad
There are previous attempts
1. try to gloss over the age of Aisha
2. try to remove all the old Islamic books
3. try to justify this Act provides that for the purposes of social and humanitarian
4. the other
He says one answer؟؟؟
Cultural relativism???
This new theory on the marriage of Aisha
And I tell you
God has nocultural relativism
From the beginning
The childisa child
To completeits members
And his mind
Even Islamic law binds the blog through the completion of those Member
U-God fixed
O-words of God fixed
The-Prophetcorrect
Ischangingthesocial lawsfor the better
And laws commensurate with the holiness of God
L.m.did not
T-Muhammadactedlikeother men
N-search through his lust and sexual orientation
M-Aishais the daughter ofAbu Bakr
And nick named Dave
He married daughters of the Prophet Muhammad
(Kalthoum-thepaper)
For this reason, Muhammad married the daughter of Abu Bakr
This is called (alshagar girl)
Which give you a girl and give me a wife
M-can not establish cultural relativism
Asifcultural relativismis true
This means that the Roman law
The code of Justinian
Written during the fifth century adbetter than the laws of Quran
As it known the legal age
The 18-year and according to my information
S. Islam and is the word of God
Was not able to achieve that human development
9. cultural relativity means back wardness of Islamic laws
And invalid at this time

 

[ginaleanne]

Mary was between 12 and 14 years old when she had Jesus and Joseph was in his 30's. That would be highly illegal today.

 

[Yes]

I'd like to discuss the marriages of Muhammad to Aisha and Safiyah because quite frankly, I find the acts themselves deeply troubling although what is perhaps even more worrying is the fact that in the modern day, despite instigating such odious behaviour, Moslems can still espouse such a man as perfect and the perfect example. I am very interested to hear from Moslems how these union's are explained to them by Imams and so by extension - how they would explain them to me.

Aisha
I realise that in the case of Aisha, her age is apparently an increasingly contentious issue for followers of Islam however I fail to see why this would be so. This is because Islam's most authentic Hadith's show her age to be 6 at the time of marriage and 8 years 9 months (Islamic lunar calendar) at its consummation and so if this is mainstream Islamic theology then I see no reason for sensitivity around this topic.

When we turn to Muhhamd's marriage to Aisha - a commonly encountered explanation Moslems will use to explain away her tender age is that apparently grown men taking child brides was normal in the 7th Century and so Muhammad was simply a man of his time i.e. he was merely partaking in the standard rituals of the period in which he lived. Well, needless to say this clarification is quite unsatisfactory because it is completely at odds with the claim made that Muhammad is the perfect example to be followed for ALL times.

See - we are not talking about a normal man being governed by cultural norms but rather, the claim is that he was someone being divinely guided by God himself, a God who was setting up the genesis of the perfect and final religion which was to be born out of his very actions and the exact words that he said. Thus - comparing the behaviour of a prophet of God to the behaviour of ordinary imperfect men is an argument I simply cannot accept. Prophets of Gods and fallible humans are simply not equivocal.

So - if this was to be the final religion to be followed for eternity then we must ask why would the God of Islam have selected this particular point of human cultural evolution to be the example to be followed for ever? It stands to reason that IF the God of Islam never actually intended this particular odious example of Muhammad to be followed for eternity then why did the God of Islam never produce a verse in the Koran saying exactly this? You would think that the all knowing God would have forseen the problems future Islamic societies would face and so would have made it absolutely certain that he slipped in a clear/specific verse in the book saying exactly this - but the God of Islam didn't.

And sadly we only need to look at what has happened in cultures shaped by Islam to see the consequences of this strange omittence. We especially need to bear this fact in mind because the Koran is said to be perfect, perfectly clear and has all the answers and so surely this means that Moslems who claim this marriage should be viewed within the context of the time it occured are actually only giving their own perspective of things with no specific theology basis to underpin such perspectives. The Koran (or Hadith) doesn't actually tells Moslems to do this because the book is perfect, perfectly clear and perfect for all times - it is the unchangebale word of God. So - looking at it in this way we come to see that Moslems who use these arguments are therefore altering the un-alterable word of God as written in the Koran! They are directly negating exacty what their faith stands for because they say things that the Koran doesn't say.

Taking this further, if we accept the idea of God as our creator then we accept that he does not make mistakes, he knows the answers yesterday, today and tomorrow - God doesn't learn on the job so to speak. Therefore, we surely also must accept that God's morality isn't governed by timelines and so God's notion of right and wrong is infinite. Thus, we must ask ourselves this - if the God of Islam was ok with Muhammad sleeping with a 9 year old girl in 650AD then we can be sure the God of Islam would be ok with him doing the same in 2014. I fail to see how this can be argued with - but I am willing to be wrong.

How do Moslems respond to this? If Moslems wish to support the big claims Islam makes for itself they really do need to start dealing with its very dodgy aspects. I remind you all that a 9 year old girl in 650AD would have been physically more immature than a 9 year old girl of 2014 which lends this troubling aspect of Islam an even more sinister tone.

Safiyah
I am equally curious to examine how the marriage to Muhammad's wife Safiyah is also explained by Moslems. The reason I ask is because the circumstances surrounding it are at complete odds with the idea of consensual marriage. Please correct me if I am wrong but on the day he marries her hadn't he just killed her Father, her Husband and pretty much her entire tribe? Her whole world had just been obliterated by, and on the orders of, one man - thus, I find it hard to believe that a woman would freely marry and sleep with this very man who'd carried this carnage out. And do so on the exact same day these awful events had occurred!

Therefore, after much consideration I feel that unless it can be demonstrated otherwise, the nature of these 2 marriages, which have had serious societal consequences throughout the ages, support my belief that Muhammad could not of been and should never have ever been deemed "the Perfect Man" nor should the God of Allah be so worthy of such respect. It is clear that the God of Islam and its prophet were co-conspirators in child abuse and the rape and forced marriage of a woman. It cannot be seen in any other way.

I love it that Jesus was a Prophet who did not come to be a son to Mary, a husband to any wife, or wives, or a father to children. Jesus came to die for the sins of the world and reconcile us to God.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Mary was between 12 and 14 years old when she had Jesus and Joseph was in his 30's. That would be highly illegal today.

Yesthisis true, I think
Joseph was a greatage
The Christian faith says he was greatin the age
Their betrothal contract was

 

[Ashraf]

Wow. No matter how much you point out that the argument of what or what wasn't normal in the 7th century is irrelevant, for some reason it just cannot compute with Moslems - they just constantly revert ad nauseam back to saying exactly what you have just rebutted. And no matter how many times you point out that Islams BEST MOST AUTHENTIC SOURCES for Aishas age shows her to be 6 then 9 Moslems will find some random 'scholar' who says different. And so here we go again....

Ok. I have already dealt with your nonsensical excuse for Muhammad’s vile actions towards a young girl - you should really learn to read the original question. Anyway - what was acceptable by society 1400 years ago is completely irrelevant to this debate – cultural evolution of fallible humans does not hold up as an excuse by Moslems for sex with children because we are discussing the morality of God’s and prophets. I have absolutely no problem with the average 7th century Arab taking a child bride as per the customs at this time – they did not know any better. HOWEVER - I have a huge problem with why the God of Islam would specifically select a child to be the bride of his prophet knowing child marriage and child sex is utterly wrong (I do hope we can agree that sex with little girls is wrong).

Therefore, despite the fact that this was normal practice in the 7th century I argue that Muhammad was very wrong in sleeping with a girl of not even 9. Muhammad wasn’t a man of his time, but rather a man selected to be the perfect example for all time – who was being divinely guided by God. Because God isn’t governed by timelines we can see that if the morality of the God of Islam had deemed sex with children as wrong in 620 AD then he simply would not have allowed the divinely guided Muhammad to do it! It is inconceivable that God would make exceptions to what he deems right or wrong - especially as this apparently was all being set up by him as the perfect religion to be followed for eternity.

God makes no exceptions and he doesn’t change his mind – his views are identical now as they were in 620AD - so if he sees sex with children as wrong in 2014 then he sure as hell would have seen it the same way in 620AD. Yet, given this immovable morality of God – you really think we can believe that the God of Islam would select a child bride for Muhammad and allow him to have sex with her before she was 9 years old nonetheless – just because it was normal human behaviour at the time??

Nope, sorry – utter rubbish. The God of Islam allowed Muhammad to have sex with a child, thus we can accurately conclude that sex with a 9 year old has to be ok in the eyes of the God of Islam - the date is completely irrelevant as God is timeless (and I couldn't care less as to whether that 'almost' 9 year old had started menses or not! And we know Aisha almost certainly wouldn't have!).

Now - IF God had not intended this marriage to serve as a guide for what would qualify as an acceptable union between a man and woman for eternity then to avoid confusion the God of Islam really should have produced a verse to point out the context of the marriage – but he didn’t. Rather, he let a man have sex with a child (who he selected) and didn’t say anything about context in the ‘holy book’ to account for this anomaly – meaning we can fairly take the lesson from this that the God of Islam allows sex with children. And sadly this has had profound implications for what do we see in many Islamic societies?

Your other point regarding the fact that no-one contested to the marriage at the time is not surprising - because those people that didn't contest it were fallible humans who regarded sex with girls as rather normal as per the state of the culture at the time! They didn't know any better. But Gods should do shouldn't they!!

So - now I have pointed this out yet again - I ask you - what is your excuse for your prophet and your god for their clear crime of child abuse? Again and again and again - it was marriage but she was 6!!!!!!

Regardless of what age Aisha married the prophet, you are ignoring the simple fact that her age of marriage was acceptable to the society and she already reached puberty. Do not let your hate to Islam block your mind from realizing the acceptable norms of marriage during that era. If she was ever a child when she married him, Christians, Jews and even pagan Arabs who were his worst enemy of his time would have condemned him for doing so. Do you really think they would have missed such a golden opportunity of condemning him had he married a child???

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Regardless of what age Aisha married the prophet, you are ignoring the simple fact that her age of marriage was acceptable to the society and she already reached puberty. Do not let your hate to Islam block your mind from realizing the acceptable norms of marriage during that era. If she was ever a child when she married him, Christians, Jews and even pagan Arabs who were his worst enemy of his time would have condemned him for doing so. Do you really think they would have missed such a golden opportunity of condemning him had he married a child???

There is an important criterion in the marriage of Aisha Mohammed
It is a recipe prophecy
Muhammad announced that he is the Messenger of Allah
And that his message is the best messages
And he Seal of the Prophets
So this means
That the religion of Mohammed is not a continuity of past traditions , but a new religion eliminates all customs and traditions that are not valid
And marry young are those old traditions
So was Muhammad to refuse this type
But he married a small
A tacit recognition to accept this marriage
Mohammed did not give permission to humanity a new message
And this is no different from any man Mohammed of the Arabs before Islam, men who married young

 

[leibowde84]

Just to say that the story that Aysha was a child when she married the prophet (S) is not authentic. We have proven this in this forum. Just consider that she attended the first war between the Muslims and the Meccans. Only those over 15 years old we allowed to attend.

Always try to refere to both the shia and the sunni accounts...

Couldn't they have just made an exception for the wife of Muhammad? I mean, there is not a single law in the history of humanity that has been enforced completely. So, why does this PROVE that she wasn't at the battle?