Did the Bible predict nuclear warheads….. in detail???

[Simplelogic]

The size of the scroll is irrelevant. It's a symbol of Torah: the giant size probably is an image related to the importance of the Torah scroll in his times, when it was still new to have all five books together in one scroll. The measure basket is an image of weighing things out. The "woman" image is a personification of wickedness, not an actual woman. The measure basket is sealed up in order to keep wickedness from growing beyond measure-- lead seals were common in both treasure boxes and in ritually sealed caskets of that time.

The overall imagery is directing the listener to the prophet's words not to ignore Torah, to keep wickedness in check wherever it may be, and to rather embrace God's path and teachings as the land is restored from the Exile.

Let me try to summarize your (Rashi's) interpretation:

- The flying 36ft megillah is in reference to the "importance of the Torah scroll". Even though the Torah was written on the megillot which consists of two roles.

-The ephah (basket) is an image of "weighing things out". Sounds like a reach.

-The woman (isha) is a "personification of wickedness". Not sure how this even makes sense at all. Not to mention the fact that the woman is "thrust" into the ephah (basket) which kinda destroys your theory of it representing (weighing things out).

-The lead is in reference to the "treasure boxes" and "caskets" which have nothing to do with this text at all. In fact the text tells us exactly what the lead is in reference to....the lid of the basket!!

-You failed to address how the stones and the wood of houses would be destroyed by this vision.

I guess people can decide for themselves who's interpretation is grasping at straws.

 

[Simplelogic]

These are NOT future prophecies, - that is just more hijacking and twisting of Jewish texts.

I will go back and take a closer look at it in the Hebrew, later tonight.

However, in view of the setting, I would guess the "thief" represents those who took the Hebrew captive for those NOTED - 70 years, - The Babylonian captivity.

Zec 7:5 Speak unto all the people of the land, and to the priests, saying, When ye fasted and mourned in the fifth and seventh month, even those seventy years, did ye at all fast unto me, even to me?

And the "one who swears falsely by my name," probably the Hebrew that went astray during the captivity.

PS. Like most Christians you keep insisting this is a future prophecy! So much so that you post ONLY Zec 6:12 claiming it is about Jesus - while leaving out Zec 6:11 - which tells us who the BRANCH here IS!

Zec 6:11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;

Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh YHVH of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of YHVH:


*

I would love to hear your opinion of Zech ch 5. You are creating a bit of a rabbit trail by trying to take the conversation to Zech 6. I would be more than happy to fully address your claim in regards to Joshua. He was definitely NOT the branch, nor was he a "king and a priest". Looking forward to that one.

 

[Simplelogic]

Source?

Do you have access to the internet?? Start there.

 

[Parsimony]

Do you have access to the internet?? Start there.

I have been. So far, I have been unable to find the relevant information in regards to the warhead that is used specifically in scud missiles. That's why I asked. I can't even find out what the warhead is called. Until a valid source can be found, the issue of lead will have to be considered inconclusive.

 

[Simplelogic]

I have heard Shoebat make that very convincing argument, but I am unfamiliar with Richardson. The argument you mention is convincing enough in a vacuum but when you can see it occurring in our lifetimes things get very serious. One interesting paradox of prophecy is if true there is no stopping it. I have no desire to live through the final events but I afraid they are encroaching into my time span despite all efforts to the contrary. Of course revelations is the book most likely to be misinterpreted (not that any interpretation would eliminate a dooms day end result) so maybe some of this of stuff may not be as terrible as it sounds.

I believe YHVH will give strength and protection to those who have the testimony of Yeshua AND keep the commandments of the Father. I have lived in the darkest corners of this earth and I have seen just how evil humanity is. I am ready for the Father's judgement. Even if i dont make it through it. Evil people will be destroyed and those who suffer now in life WILL be restored and healed.

 

[Ingledsva]

I would love to hear your opinion of Zech ch 5. You are creating a bit of a rabbit trail by trying to take the conversation to Zech 6. I would be more than happy to fully address your claim in regards to Joshua. He was definitely NOT the branch, nor was he a "king and a priest". Looking forward to that one.

No I am not These are all the same event, read from Zec 1 on. You are trying to select out one section. I included the section before and after to show it flows through all three, and none of it is some future Jesus event. You have already had someone of the Jewish faith tell you the meaning - but you go on with the missile junk.

Zec 1 tells us this is about the people of the Babylonian exile.

Zec 1:12 Then the angel of the YHVH answered and said, O YHVH of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years? (70 years of the Babylonian exile)

Zec 1:16 Therefore thus saith YHVH; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith YHVH of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem.

Zec 1:21 Then said I, What come these to do? And he spake, saying, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, so that no man did lift up his head: but these are come to fray them, to cast out the horns of the heathen, which lifted up their horn over the land of Judah to scatter it.
*

Zec 2:6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith YHVH: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith YHVH.

Zec 2:7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.
*
Zec 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.

Zec 3:9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
*
Zec 4:2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:

Zec 4:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

Zec 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

Zec 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

*
Zec 5:1 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll (covered scroll.)

Zec 5:2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll (covered scroll) the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.

Zec 5:3 Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth (CARRY AWAY - the Hebrews) shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth (an oath) shall be cut off as on that side according to it.

"Nebuchadnezzar took Jehoiachin captive, together with his mother and other members of the royal family. He also rounded up leading figures in the land of Judea, including many scholars and elders, and led them all to Babylon. Altogether some 10,000 captives were taken in this First Exile to Babylon."

"Before returning to his country, Nebuchadnezzar placed Zedekiah, the uncle of the deposed king and youngest son of the late King Josiah, on the throne of Judea, after taking an oath of loyalty to his Babylonian overlord." Jeremiah's Message To The Exiles - Jewish History

Zec 5:4 I will bring it forth (The Curse), saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief (that took Hebrews captive), and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name (NEBUCHADNEZZAR) and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.

Zec 5:6 And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah (measure) that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance (The measure of their worth) through all the earth.

Zec 5:7 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah.

Zec 5:8 And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth (opening) thereof.

Their MEASURE is WICKEDNESS - cast into the ephah and sealed with lead.


Zec 5:10 Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah?

Zec 5:11 And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar (Babylon) and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base.

Zec 5:11 And he said to me, To build a house/prison for it in the land of Shinar/Babylon; and it shall be erected and cast down there upon its own foundation.

Their prison is built and cast down upon their own wicked foundation.

*
Zec 6:10 Take of them of the captivity, even of Heldai, of Tobijah, and of Jedaiah, which are come from Babylon, and come thou the same day, and go into the house of Josiah the son of Zephaniah;

Zec 6:11 Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;

Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

Zec 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

*
Zec 7 it is STILL on the same subject -

Zec 7:5 Speak unto all the people of the land, and to the priests, saying, When ye fasted and mourned in the fifth and seventh month, even those seventy years, did ye at all fast unto me, even to me?


I think this settles it once and for ALL! As you can see it is discussing the Babylon captivity, and the war, and the new King Joshua, - not any future event with a missile!

*

 

[Simplelogic]

No I am not These are all the same event, read from Zec 1 on. You are trying to select out one section. I included the section before and after to show it flows through all three, and none of it is some future Jesus event. You have already had someone of the Jewish faith tell you the meaning - but you go on with the missile junk.

Zec 1 tells us this is about the people of the Babylonian exile.

Zec 1:12 Then the angel of the YHVH answered and said, O YHVH of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years? (70 years of the Babylonian exile)

Zec 1:16 Therefore thus saith YHVH; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith YHVH of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem.

Zec 1:21 Then said I, What come these to do? And he spake, saying, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, so that no man did lift up his head: but these are come to fray them, to cast out the horns of the heathen, which lifted up their horn over the land of Judah to scatter it.
*

Zec 2:6 Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith YHVH: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith YHVH.

Zec 2:7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.
*
Zec 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.

Zec 3:9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
*
Zec 4:2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:

Zec 4:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

Zec 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

Zec 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

*
Zec 5:1 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll (covered scroll.)

Zec 5:2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll (covered scroll) the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.

Zec 5:3 Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth (CARRY AWAY - the Hebrews) shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth (an oath) shall be cut off as on that side according to it.

"Nebuchadnezzar took Jehoiachin captive, together with his mother and other members of the royal family. He also rounded up leading figures in the land of Judea, including many scholars and elders, and led them all to Babylon. Altogether some 10,000 captives were taken in this First Exile to Babylon."

"Before returning to his country, Nebuchadnezzar placed Zedekiah, the uncle of the deposed king and youngest son of the late King Josiah, on the throne of Judea, after taking an oath of loyalty to his Babylonian overlord." Jeremiah's Message To The Exiles - Jewish History

Zec 5:4 I will bring it forth (The Curse), saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief (that took Hebrews captive), and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name (NEBUCHADNEZZAR) and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.

Zec 5:6 And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah (measure) that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance (The measure of their worth) through all the earth.

Zec 5:7 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah.

Zec 5:8 And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth (opening) thereof.

Their MEASURE is WICKEDNESS - cast into the ephah and sealed with lead.


Zec 5:10 Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah?

Zec 5:11 And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar (Babylon) and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base.

Zec 5:11 And he said to me, To build a house/prison for it in the land of Shinar/Babylon; and it shall be erected and cast down there upon its own foundation.

*

This is a slight of hand. You are attempting the relabel "the curse" which Zechariah is very clear about. The "curse" is literally the 36ft roll flying through the air!! Then you try to do it again in 5:4:

"Zec 5:4 I will bring it forth (The Curse), saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief (that took Hebrews captive),and into the house of him thatsweareth falsely by my name (NEBUCHADNEZZAR) and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof."

-Can everyone please read this quoted passage again. Nebuchadnezzer is NOT THE ONE SPEAKING HERE. YHVH said that He will bring this curse (the Scroll). And this curse enter the house of him "who swears falsely by my name"…..YHVH's name!! Not Nebuchadnezzer! You also failed to mention how this curse consumes the timber and stones of the houses!!

Yes….everyone will be able to make up their own minds as to which interpretation is more honest to the text.

 

[Simplelogic]

Perhaps we should do another post on prophecy. It is an undeniable fact that prophets will speak future prophecies in a way that they are sandwiched in between historical prophesies which pertain to their own day.

 

[McBell]

Perhaps we should do another post on prophecy. It is an undeniable fact that prophets will speak future prophecies in a way that they are sandwiched in between historical prophesies which pertain to their own day.

Only through liberal use of the Forer Effect.

 

[Simplelogic]

Only through liberal use of the Forer Effect.

Or just looking at history and discerning which prophecies have not yet come to pass.

 

[McBell]

Or just looking at history and discerning which prophecies have not yet come to pass.

Since you have no desire to accept even the possibility you are wrong....

 

[Ingledsva]

This is a slight of hand. You are attempting the relabel "the curse" which Zechariah is very clear about. The "curse" is literally the 36ft roll flying through the air!! Then you try to do it again in 5:4:

ING - Comprehension problems? The CURSE is written on the SCROLL! And by the way,- the word being translated as "flying" is actually "cover!" Why it is translated flying - I have no idea! It is a Covered Scroll, not a flying scroll.

Zec 5:1 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll (covered scroll.)

Zec 5:2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll (covered scroll) the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.

Zec 5:3 Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth (CARRY AWAY - the Hebrews) shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth (an oath) shall be cut off as on that side according to it.

ING - You claim this is a missile. How does one missile cover the whole earth? How does it harm only the wicked? It is a curse written on a huge scroll - NOT a missile!

"Zec 5:4 I will bring it forth (The Curse), saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief (that took Hebrews captive),and into the house of him thatsweareth falsely by my name (NEBUCHADNEZZAR) and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof."

ING - Those last few words just mean total destruction!

-Can everyone please read this quoted passage again. Nebuchadnezzer is NOT THE ONE SPEAKING HERE. YHVH said that He will bring this curse (the Scroll). And this curse enter the house of him "who swears falsely by my name"…..YHVH's name!! Not Nebuchadnezzer! You also failed to mention how this curse consumes the timber and stones of the houses!!

ING - How exactly does - "I will bring it forth (the curse) saith the Lord/YHVH"
Become - Nebuchadnezzar saying it??? Inquiring minds want to know? You obviously need to re-read what I wrote!

Yes….everyone will be able to make up their own minds as to which interpretation is more honest to the text.

Dude - you need to re-read that. The "slight of hand" is Christians trying to change and claim Jewish texts!

Of course it is YHVH placing the curse - I did NOT say it wasn't! Nebuchadnezzar is the OATH breaker.

YHVH's CURSE is written on the scroll! Magic curses are written down by the Hebrew. We have many examples in museums.

This text is OBVIOUSLY about the Babylonian Exile from Zec1 on! Any Jewish scholar can tell you this!


*

 

[Simplelogic]

First off..I am a Jew, not a Christian.

You can continue to make your argument but I have addressed the concept of Hebrew prophets speaking to future events. These prophesies are sandwiched in the middle of many historical prophesies. Mainstream Judaism accepts this reality in the Scriptures and it can not be avoided.

Sorry if I am not buying your 36ft flying scroll being a "magic" scroll. You still haven't told me how this magic scroll destroys the wood and stones of houses either.

Face it, you have no logical historical interpretation of this passage. You are obviously scrambling to find one but all I keep hearing is people parroting Rashi's extremely illogical commentary.

There is no twisting anything here. Nor is this my pet theory. I am still open to ANY other logical interpretation but NONE has been presented thus far. I mean seriously…a giant flying scroll holding a basket with a evil women inside and a lead covering??? And these spiritualized interpretations are suppose to explain how houses are destroyed…even the stones and wood???

 

[Simplelogic]

Since you have no desire to accept even the possibility you are wrong....

Are you serious?? I have been willing to listen to ANY logical interpretation. Have you seen one yet?? If so, please let me know. Also, do you care to share your rendering of this passage? Since I am obviously trying to tweak the text to fit my apocolyptic fantasies. Why sit there and make charges all day without giving any personal views on the text?? Sideline tomato throwing at its best.

 

[Ingledsva]

First off..I am a Jew, not a Christian.

ING - The fact that you don't understand the Jewish texts - leads me to ask if you are a Messianic Jew?

You can continue to make your argument but I have addressed the concept of Hebrew prophets speaking to future events. These prophesies are sandwiched in the middle of many historical prophesies. Mainstream Judaism accepts this reality in the Scriptures and it can not be avoided.

ING - Which does not in any way impact the texts we are discussing. They are easily read, and continue the same thread - Babylonian Exile - straight through - NO FUTURE MISSILE!

Sorry if I am not buying your 36ft flying scroll being a "magic" scroll. You still haven't told me how this magic scroll destroys the wood and stones of houses either.

ING - LOL! Dude, The Bible is full of magic. YHVH creating a CURSE SCROLL against these bad guys - is just such. We have many examples of written Hebrew curses, in museums. The last few words just mean totally destroyed!

Face it, you have no logical historical interpretation of this passage. You are obviously scrambling to find one but all I keep hearing is people parroting Rashi's extremely illogical commentary.

There is no twisting anything here. Nor is this my pet theory. I am still open to ANY other logical interpretation but NONE has been presented thus far. I mean seriously…a giant flying scroll holding a basket with a evil women inside and a lead covering???

ING - LOL! It tells us the woman represents wickedness! Why would a scroll be holding a measure? You come up with the weirdest crap.

And these spiritualized interpretations are suppose to explain how houses are destroyed…even the stones and wood???

LOL! You are hilarious! The commentary of actual Jewish scholars, my own translation, and a Jewish fellow on this site, (and the text itself I might add) are all wrong, - but the idiotic turning of a Big CURSE SCROLL, into a future missile is correct? LOLOLOLO!

*

 

[Simplelogic]

LOL! You are hilarious! The commentary of actual Jewish scholars, my own translation, and a Jewish fellow on this site, (and the text itself I might add) are all wrong, - but the idiotic turning of a Big CURSE SCROLL, into a future missile is correct? LOLOLOLO!

*

I am not ignorant to Rabbinic opinions. I am the one who first posted Rashi's commentary, before everyone started falling back on it.

You still dodged the question of how your magic scroll destroys houses.

I still believe the op carries much more logic then what you are suggesting. Others can make up their minds.

 

[psychoslice]

By cherry picking and manipulation, you can make any book sound as if its predicting whatever you want, the book of Nostradamus is one.

 

[Ingledsva]

I am not ignorant to Rabbinic opinions. I am the one who first posted Rashi's commentary, before everyone started falling back on it.

You still dodged the question of how your magic scroll destroys houses.

ING - Nothing was dodged. It specifically says it is a CURSE by YHVH. The wording simply means everything of the wicked is totally destroyed. One would assume a curse by God would have that result.

I still believe the op carries much more logic then what you are suggesting. Others can make up their minds.

A Hebrew text talking about the Hebrew Exile makes sense, - future Missiles and a Christian Jesus - do not.

This is very obvious - it talks about Babylon and the seventy years of the captivity, - SEVERAL- times, - and names the crowned King - in 6:11.

*

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Below is the case from Zechariah Chapter 5

Awesome. Now, maybe I've really misjudged my ability to read Hebrew and my translations are truly terrible, or I have missed the equations in the Bible on electric quadrupole moments, Compton scattering, Nuclear spin, and even fission (hint: that last one relates to nuclear bombs; and by relates I mean the state equations or dynamical equations in nuclear fission are what make nuclear warheads "nuclear"). If you could be so kind as to direct me to those Biblical passages in which the atomic & subatomic dynamics of nuclear physics are described in even elementary detail, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Simplelogic]

A Hebrew text talking about the Hebrew Exile makes sense, - future Missiles and a Christian Jesus - do not.

This is very obvious - it talks about Babylon and the seventy years of the captivity, - SEVERAL- times, - and names the crowned King - in 6:11.

*

Dodged the question again.