Whence the Apple?

[Sunstone]

Whence came the notion that the fruit eaten by Adam and Eve was an apple?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Forbidden Fruit

 

[Sunstone]

Forbidden Fruit

Thank you so much, Jay! I made the silly assumption that Wiki wouldn't have anything to say about it.

 

[chinu]

Very well Adam and Eve knows that.. "An apple a day keeps doctor away "

 

[Pegg]

Whence came the notion that the fruit eaten by Adam and Eve was an apple?

medieval artists painted it as an apple tree
German court painter Lucas Cranach the Elder in the 1400's
The Garden of Paradise by Peter Paul Rubens in 1500's

And the first time its put into writing is in the poem by English poet John Milton. Paradise Lost (1667)

“On a day, roving the field, I climbed
A goodly tree far distant to behold,
Loaden with fruit of fairest colours mixed,
Ruddy and gold. .*.*.
To satisfy the sharp desire I had
Of tasting those fair Apples, I resolved
Not to defer; hunger and thirst at once—
Powerful persuaders—quickened at the scent
Of that alluring fruit, urged me so keen."

 

[Sunstone]

medieval artists painted it as an apple tree
German court painter Lucas Cranach the Elder in the 1400's
The Garden of Paradise by Peter Paul Rubens in 1500's

And the first time its put into writing is in the poem by English poet John Milton. Paradise Lost (1667)

“On a day, roving the field, I climbed
A goodly tree far distant to behold,
Loaden with fruit of fairest colours mixed,
Ruddy and gold. .*.*.
To satisfy the sharp desire I had
Of tasting those fair Apples, I resolved
Not to defer; hunger and thirst at once—
Powerful persuaders—quickened at the scent
Of that alluring fruit, urged me so keen."

Thanks, Pegg!

 

[Sleeppy]

I have a hard time believing it was a literal fruit.. But if it was-- which? Could we ever possibly know?

 

[ChristineES]

Forbidden Fruit

Thanks. That's really fascination!

 

[Nada]

It never says apple in the holy scriptures and it never says forbidden fruit.It says fruit.

Genesis 3:3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'"


Genesis 2:17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

So God commanded them not to eat fruit from that certain tree.

It never uses the term forbidden fruit.

 

[Sunstone]

It never says apple in the holy scriptures and it never says forbidden fruit.It says fruit.

Genesis 3:3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'"


Genesis 2:17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

So God commanded them not to eat fruit from that certain tree.

It never uses the term forbidden fruit.

Even if true, irrelevant.

 

[Ingledsva]

Forbidden Fruit

And here are the pictures.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Pic...agoCYDw&ved=0CB8QsAQ&biw=1067&bih=527&dpr=1.5


And a song -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtiMw0-akAM&feature=player_detailpage

*

 

[Nada]

Even if true, irrelevant.

Oh...ok,thanks.

 

[1137]

Very well Adam and Eve knows that.. "An apple a day keeps doctor away "

In this case it dooms you to a deadly disease with a 100% chance of genetic inheritance.

 

[gnostic]

I had started a similar topic, several years ago, When a fruit isn't an apple...?, in which where did the idea of the forbidden fruit were apples come from?

I did post that 1 Enoch 32 (in post 9), which describe the fruit to be like grapes, leaves like that of carob trees, and height like that of fir trees.

Here, is a quote from 1 Enoch 32:

3. And I came to the Garden of Righteousness, and saw beyond those trees many large trees growing there and of goodly fragrance, large, very beautiful and glorious, and the tree of wisdom whereof they eat and know great wisdom.
4. That tree is in height like the fir, and its leaves are like (those of) the Carob tree: and its fruit is like the clusters of the vine, very beautiful: and the fragrance of the tree penetrates afar. 5. Then I said: 'How beautiful is the tree, and how attractive is its look!' 6. Then Raphael the holy angel, who was with me, answered me and said: 'This is the tree of wisdom, of which thy father old (in years) and thy aged mother, who were before thee, have eaten, and they learnt wisdom and their eyes were opened, and they knew that they were naked and they were driven out of the garden.'

The thing is that the verses here describe the forbidden tree and fruit with 3 different comparisons of trees, and no tree have all these 3 traits, as skwin had pointed out in his reply (post 10).

 

[Ingledsva]

I had started a similar topic, several years ago, When a fruit isn't an apple...?, in which where did the idea of the forbidden fruit were apples come from?

I did post that 1 Enoch 32 (in post 9), which describe the fruit to be like grapes, leaves like that of carob trees, and height like that of fir trees.

Here, is a quote from 1 Enoch 32:

1 Enoch 32:3-6]3. And I came to the Garden of Righteousness, and saw beyond those trees many large trees growing there and of goodly fragrance, large, very beautiful and glorious, and the tree of wisdom whereof they eat and know great wisdom.
4. That tree is in height like the fir, and its leaves are like (those of) the Carob tree: and its fruit is like the clusters of the vine, very beautiful: and the fragrance of the tree penetrates afar. 5. Then I said: 'How beautiful is the tree, and how attractive is its look!' 6. Then Raphael the holy angel, who was with me, answered me and said: 'This is the tree of wisdom, of which thy father old (in years) and thy aged mother, who were before thee, have eaten, and they learnt wisdom and their eyes were opened, and they knew that they were naked and they were driven out of the garden.'

The thing is that the verses here describe the forbidden tree and fruit with 3 different comparisons of trees, and no tree have all these 3 traits, as skwin had pointed out in his reply (post 10).

Probably because it is a big beautiful fragrant mushroom.

Note all the ancient art showing Adam and Eve with the Tree as an Amanita Muscaria, a mushroom.



http://www.egodeath.com/images/Plaincourault_web.jpg



https://www.google.com/search?q=ada...ed=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1067&bih=527&dpr=1.5#imgdii=_


*

 

[sojourner]

Forgive my ignorance on this particular nugget, but isn't "apple" kind of a generic term? There are apple apples (Macintosh, Jonathan, red delicious, etc.), there are also hedge apples, road apples, horse apples, etc. Couldn't have "apple" simply been used at some point as a generic term for "fruit" in a paraphrased telling of the story?

 

[1137]

Forgive my ignorance on this particular nugget, but isn't "apple" kind of a generic term? There are apple apples (Macintosh, Jonathan, red delicious, etc.), there are also hedge apples, road apples, horse apples, etc. Couldn't have "apple" simply been used at some point as a generic term for "fruit" in a paraphrased telling of the story?

Maybe the serpent sold them a MacBook and they couldn't afford Eden Health Insurance anymore.

 

[Nada]

I had started a similar topic, several years ago, When a fruit isn't an apple...?, in which where did the idea of the forbidden fruit were apples come from?

I did post that 1 Enoch 32 (in post 9), which describe the fruit to be like grapes, leaves like that of carob trees, and height like that of fir trees.

Here, is a quote from 1 Enoch 32:


The thing is that the verses here describe the forbidden tree and fruit with 3 different comparisons of trees, and no tree have all these 3 traits, as skwin had pointed out in his reply (post 10).

The book of Enoch is not considered God inspired and is not contained in the holy scriptures.

 

[gnostic]

The book of Enoch is not considered God inspired and is not contained in the holy scriptures.

I'm well aware of that.

The OP is not about looking for any canonical scripture or divine-inspired text about the earliest identity of fruit to "apples"; sunstone wanted to know when did people began to represent the forbidden fruit as "apples".

My post was just showing that it wasn't an "apple", when the 1st Enochian text was composed, possibly in 2nd century BCE. My post about Enoch's tree is a hybrid of several possible trees, that don't exist.

And the topic is not necessarily on works of literature, but could be of works of arts.

So it doesn't matter if the books of Enoch were divinely-inspired or not.

And as a side-note, during the writing of the gospels and epistles, there are evidences to suggest that the NT authors thought that the books of Enoch were divinely-inspired, for instances:

• The epistle of Jude, speak of Enoch's prophecies.
• The books of Enoch were the first to speak of the wicked being punished in the afterlife; none of the OT books speak of such descriptions.

As far as I can tell, people began identifying the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge as "apples" during the Middle Ages or the early Renaissance.

 

[Nada]

I'm well aware of that.

The OP is not about any canonical scriptures or divine-inspired texts, but when did people began to represent the forbidden fruit as "apples".

My post was just showing that it wasn't an "apple", when the 1st Enochian text was composed, possibly in 2nd century BCE.

And the topic is not necessarily on works of literature, but could be of works of arts.

As far as I can tell, people began identifying the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge as "apples" during the Middle Ages or the early Renaissance.

Yes.I agree that it was not an apple.It was a fruit.I see what you are saying about the matter of when the apple was recognized.Cool.