Is Isma'ilism a middle ground between Islam and Dharma?

[StarryNightshade]

I've recently been introduced to a sect of Shia Islam called Isma'ilism. I still don't know all of the it's details, but I can safety say that I really dig 'em. They are definitely Islamic, but there is also a very distinctive feel to their beliefs and rituals. I think that can be attributed to the their geographical development (Persia and the Indian subcontinent, primarily). As such, could it be safe to say that Isma'ilism can be viewed as a middle ground between Islam and Dharmic thought?

From Shia Islam it has the Qu'ran, the five pillars, the final prophethood of Mohammed, various Biblical persons as prophets (Moses, Abraham, Jesus, etc.), and Ali as the successor of Mohammed.

From Dharma it has reincarnation, concepts similar to karma, and it's own lineage of Imams similar to a guru lineage. Many Ismaili also often go to Hindu temples for religious festivals.

They have their own beliefs and customs as well. For one, they view the Qu'ran from an esoteric point of view, as far as I know they reject (or at least de-emphasize) the Hadiths, and they place huge importance personal introspection to ones personal beliefs. They also tend to be more socially moderate than many mainstream Muslims (in terms of women's roles in society, congregational worship, and, if I'm not mistaken, to LGBT).

Your thoughts?

 

[Sha'irullah]

Isma'ilism is a Shia sect obviously of course would not have a lot in common with Sunnism but it is very hierarchical like all Shia sects are and is quite unDharmic.

Isma'is also do not reject the hadiths they just have different ones which is common for the Shia and Sunni analysis.

 

[Vouthon]

Beyond doubt Isma'ilism is my favourite sect of Islam. The largest group within their numbers, the Nizari, are led by an Imam called the 'Agha Khan' who assumes an office very similar to the Catholic Pope.

Out of all the Islamic denominations they have proven the most compatible with modernity and I have never heard a bad word said about them.

Their beliefs are quite mystical too, which is a plus. They have a very spiritual interpretation of the Qur'an, searching like Sufis for hidden meanings under the guidance of their Imam.

 

[StarryNightshade]

Beyond doubt Isma'ilism is my favourite sect of Islam. The largest group within their numbers, the Nizari, are led by an Imam called the 'Agha Khan' who assumes an office very similar to the Catholic Pope.

Out of all the Islamic denominations they have proven the most compatible with modernity and I have never heard a bad word said about them.

Their beliefs are quite mystical too, which is a plus. They have a very spiritual interpretation of the Qur'an, searching like Sufis for hidden meanings under the guidance of their Imam.

I really like them too, along with Sufis, but I have heard some criticisms against them.

 

[Vouthon]

I really like them too, along with Sufis, but I have heard some criticisms against them.

I meant the ones I had met personally, I should have clarified. I meant that I found them to be of a very high moral character and none of the women wore the hijab, because the Imam had said it was unnecessary for this age. No one I met spoke ill of them. Ever since I have been impressed by them

 

[StarryNightshade]

I meant the ones I had met personally, I should have clarified. I meant that I found them to be of a very high moral character and none of the women wore the hijab, because the Imam had said it was unnecessary for this age. No one I met spoke ill of them. Ever since I have been impressed by them

That is awesome.

If you know, what is the official (or at least least the most common) stance on LGBT?

 

[xkatz]

Do you know if Ismailis pray in the same masjids as other Muslims or if they have separate houses of worship?

 

[StarryNightshade]

I think they have their own. From what I've gathered, they're called Jamatkhanas.

 

[Vouthon]

That is awesome.

If you know, what is the official (or at least least the most common) stance on LGBT?

I'm not sure but I think they follow the general Islamic understanding of LGBT, albeit their Imam doesn't seem to have mentioned the subject directly. There seems to be diversity among Nizari Ismailis as a whole, although as I say I think that the official line would follow the Islamic norm.

 

[Vouthon]

This is a photograph of Sir Sultan Muhammed Shah, Aga Khan III (1877 – 1957), who was the 48th Imam of the Nizari Ismaili community (the one before the present Imam, indeed his grandfather). He was President of the League of Nations (the predecessor of the UN, formed after WWI) from 1937-38:

And here is the present one Prince Shah Karim Al Hussaini Aga Khan (IV):

As a young man:

 

[Vinayaka]

We have a fairly large community here, and they do have their own house(s) of worship. But maybe that's just a reflection of the size of the community.

As for philosophical similarities ... In a word, No.

I have never met an Ammadiya I didn't like. Great people. Here in Canada many came as economic refugees from Uganda under Amin's terror.

(It's usually quite easy to recognise an Ismaili business. Look behind the counter for a picture of the Aga Khan.

 

[Vouthon]

(It's usually quite easy to recognise an Ismaili business. Look behind the counter for a picture of the Aga Khan.

Which again reminds me a bit of Catholics (ie with photographs of our Pope).

 

[Vinayaka]

Which again reminds me a bit of Catholics (ie with photographs of our Pope).

I have this silly habit of looking on the 'behind the till' walls of stores run by Indians. You might see Krishna, or A Sikh Guru, Ganesha, either of two Sai Babas, or the Aga Khan. Tidbits of information from simple observation.

 

[LuisDantas]

I've recently been introduced to a sect of Shia Islam called Isma'ilism. I still don't know all of the it's details, but I can safety say that I really dig 'em. They are definitely Islamic, but there is also a very distinctive feel to their beliefs and rituals. I think that can be attributed to the their geographical development (Persia and the Indian subcontinent, primarily). As such, could it be safe to say that Isma'ilism can be viewed as a middle ground between Islam and Dharmic thought?

I will give my opinion when I read the next few paragraphs, but I will tell you upfront that Dharma is far less a set of beliefs than it is an attitude towards religious practice. If you are interested in Dharmic Islam, you would probably do well in acquaintancing yourself with Sufism.

From Shia Islam it has the Qu'ran, the five pillars, the final prophethood of Mohammed, various Biblical persons as prophets (Moses, Abraham, Jesus, etc.), and Ali as the successor of Mohammed.

It sure seems to be a solid enough set of Islamic concepts.

From Dharma it has reincarnation, concepts similar to karma, and it's own lineage of Imams similar to a guru lineage. Many Ismaili also often go to Hindu temples for religious festivals.

Reincarnation seems to be an important concept for many or most Hinduist schools, but it is not particularly central to and arguably not very typical of Dharma as such.

Transmission lineages are another matter entirely; it is very difficult to have any informed idea of whether Dharma has been understood without a lineage. But I would have to attempt to guess how they deal with their teachings, which would obviously be frivolous of mine.

Having an open mind and being at ease with Hindu temples is certainly better than the alternative, but I don't think it says a lot about their doctrine in and of itself.

They have their own beliefs and customs as well. For one, they view the Qu'ran from an esoteric point of view, as far as I know they reject (or at least de-emphasize) the Hadiths, and they place huge importance personal introspection to ones personal beliefs. They also tend to be more socially moderate than many mainstream Muslims (in terms of women's roles in society, congregational worship, and, if I'm not mistaken, to LGBT).

Your thoughts?

Dharma is perhaps best defined as the decision to fully accept and embrace the balance between standing fully behind one's own religious convictions (to the point of actually accepting the duty to express them in one's own words even if it may appear to go against established teachings) while also being humble enough to want to learn from one's forebearers and nurture gratitude for their offered wisdom.

That does indeed lead to social moderation, I think. And to a curious form of passive resistance to scripture literalism as well.

I would say that anyone having those attitudes is practing Dharma, regardless of the actual historical or scriptural origins of their beliefs, or of the knowledge of the concept.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Any Sufi order is more closer to Dharma than Ismal'ism could ever be. Shi'ism in general is closer to Catholicism and relies entirely upon political/hierarchical rule and functions more like a cult(no offense) than anything else.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Many Ismaili also often go to Hindu temples for religious festivals.

I doubt it very much. Perhaps just as many as the Christians and Muslims go to temples.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. are led by an Imam called the 'Agha Khan' who assumes an office very similar to the Catholic Pope.

One of the richest people in the world, lives in French Riviera and married a famous actress. Only those with merits from previous birth are born that way. In India, we have the head priest of the Nathdwara Krishna temple. Stayed in Mumbai and was popular among Bollywood actresses. Came to the temple only during festivities.

 

[Vouthon]

One of the richest people in the world, lives in French Riviera and married a famous actress. Only those with merits from previous birth are born that way. In India, we have the head priest of the Nathdwara Krishna temple. Stayed in Mumbai and was popular among Bollywood actresses. Came to the temple only during festivities.

Likely all true, I know little about his personal life and was speaking not so much about him as I was the office, which I think is useful to have since the Imam can effectively "up-date" the Islamic doctrines to meet the needs of modernity, such as removing the need for women to wear a headscarf.

The important thing for me is that Ismailis do not believe in violent jihad, as far as I am aware are committing no acts of terrorism and are generally easy to get along with.

For me that is all that really counts, I am happy to let their leader do what he wants so long as he continues to tell his followers not to oppress others.

 

[Vinayaka]

I doubt it very much. Perhaps just as many as the Christians and Muslims go to temples.

I agree. I've never ever seen one in a Hindu temple, although many were converted from Hinduism several generations back. The one gentleman whom I knew a bit here did give me discounts on temple supplies though. Course that may have been shrewd business. Still, I really liked the man, always smiling when he took my money.

 

[YmirGF]

Their modern history isn't of much interest to me, the fascinating story of this sect of Islam is in its roots. Fascinating stuff. So as not to derail the thread, I'll just recommend that people investigate this and call it a day.

A taster:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Assassins:_A_Radical_Sect_in_Islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizari