The Messiah asks you a question,...?

[Jayhawker Soule]

… or were they the product of - and emerged in - a male chauvinist culture?

 

[dantech]

… or were they the product of - and emerged in - a male chauvinist culture?

Also a good point.

He is referred to as King, as Ben Yosef, as Ben David. Some verses will have words like עָלָ֔יו or קֹולֹֽו. If these aren't taken as intentional by the prophet and are actually a way of keeping it generic, then I don't think you could make a case that the messiah would have to be a man.

 

[metis]

Also a good point.

He is referred to as King, as Ben Yosef, as Ben David. Some verses will have words like עָלָ֔יו or קֹולֹֽו. If these aren't taken as intentional by the prophet and are actually a way of keeping it generic, then I don't think you could make a case that the messiah would have to be a man.

Well said, and my sentiments exactly. But then I guess I'm disqualified since I'm non-theistic.

 

[Akivah]

The Messiah appears, and says this to you: "I'm sorta taking a survey of Jews here in regards to whether the Temple should be rebuilt and if animal/grain sacrifices should resume, so what is your opinion?".

You gotta answer the question-- no fudging.

Yes to rebuilding the temple. It would provide benefits to all humankind, not just to Jews. Yes to korban. I always viewed them as at least partially as taxes for temple maintenance and partly for the need to give something up for thankfulness. I would express gratitude for the world peace existing in the messianic times that made the rebuilding of the temple so easy.

 

[arcanum]

The Messiah appears, and says this to you: "I'm sorta taking a survey of Jews here in regards to whether the Temple should be rebuilt and if animal/grain sacrifices should resume, so what is your opinion?".

You gotta answer the question-- no fudging.

Why would god re institute the practice of animal sacrifice? What purpose does it really serve? What would the deity actually get out seeing an animals throat cut? Just asking

 

[Akivah]

G-d said the sacrificial system would resume in the Messianic Age. Note that sacrifices don't require blood or dead animals. The Torah tells us that reptenance, perfume, or money are also acceptable sacrifices.

I find it odd that people don't mind millions of cows being killed each year, but put one on an altar and people go berserk.

 

[dantech]

G-d said the sacrificial system would resume in the Messianic Age. Note that sacrifices don't require blood or dead animals. The Torah tells us that reptenance, perfume, or money are also acceptable sacrifices.

I find it odd that people don't mind millions of cows being killed each year, but put one on an altar and people go berserk.

Yeah, I thought of that too.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I find it odd that people don't mind millions of cows being killed each year, but put one on an altar and people go berserk.

It's simply that many of us find it difficult to accept the premise that God might be at all interested about when, how, or why we smear animal blood on that altar. Shall we also reinstitute the provisions found in parashat metzora?

 

[metis]

One item that comes to mind is the Dalai Lama's opinion that, if you sacrifice an animal, all you end up having is a dead animal.

If the Messiah were to ask my opinion, which he ain't, I'd have ask him "Is this really necessary?".

 

[dantech]

One item that comes to mind is the Dalai Lama's opinion that, if you sacrifice an animal, all you end up having is a dead animal.

If the Messiah were to ask my opinion, which he ain't, I'd have ask him "Is this really necessary?".

It doesn't all go to waste. A part is burned and the rest is eaten by the Kohanim and the owner. So the question remains, why does it matter to others how we kill our food and for which reasons before we eat it? Is it really more cruel than what goes on in those slaughter houses?

 

[technomage]

It doesn't all go to waste. A part is burned and the rest is eaten by the Kohanim and the owner.

Come to think of it, that makes me think of a question. It's been several years since I studied the Temple sacrifices, and my memory isn't what it once was, but weren't there only like one or two sacrifices per year that were totally burned on the altar?

 

[dantech]

It's simply that many of us find it difficult to accept the premise that God might be at all interested about when, how, or why we smear animal blood on that altar. Shall we also reinstitute the provisions found in parashat metzora?

It's likely that sacrifices are about more than just animal blood, and have something to do with the fact that animals were equivalent to today's money. It's simply about showing your gratitude to God with your hard earned possessions. Maybe if the sacrifices are reinstated, they will be in form of a money tax.

 

[dantech]

Come to think of it, that makes me think of a question. It's been several years since I studied the Temple sacrifices, and my memory isn't what it once was, but weren't there only like one or two sacrifices per year that were totally burned on the altar?

Only the Olah was not eaten. Others had very minor exceptions that would render them inedible

 

[technomage]

Only the Olah was not eaten. Others had very minor exceptions that would render them inedible

Thanks.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's simply about showing your gratitude to God with your hard earned possessions.

In my opinion, no reasonable reading of Torah could conclude that ritual sacrifice was "simply about showing your gratitude to God with your hard earned possessions."

 

[Levite]

If the messiah-- who, IMO, could certainly be of either gender-- were to come, and we were to find a way to rebuild the Temple peacefully, without inciting war with the Islamic world, and the Jewish People could agree among one another on the parameters of a Temple that could be inclusive of all Jewish worship, then I would absolutely want it rebuilt.

But without animal sacrifices. I have no objections to bringing offerings of first-fruits, of grain and wine and oil offerings, of the lechem hapanim or display bread offering, of the water offering on Sukkot, or of the daily incense offering. Nor do I have a problem with liturgical recitation of what our ancestors used to sacrifice. But I think we have outgrown the need for animal sacrifices, and to re-institute them would be a spiritual retrograde movement for us.

I know that, personally, when I pray for the restoration of the Temple, and the restoration of sacrifices, my kavanah (intention) is a very different kind of Temple than the Second Temple was, and a restoration of sacrifices in a poetic, representational way, not in a literal, animal-slaughtering way.

 

[metis]

It doesn't all go to waste. A part is burned and the rest is eaten by the Kohanim and the owner. So the question remains, why does it matter to others how we kill our food and for which reasons before we eat it? Is it really more cruel than what goes on in those slaughter houses?

Some of the sacrifices were totally burned but most were not and distributed as you say above, plus let me add that some was given to the poor.

I do have very mixed emotions about this, so I don't see it as a black-and-white thing.

 

[dantech]

In my opinion, no reasonable reading of Torah could conclude that ritual sacrifice was "simply about showing your gratitude to God with your hard earned possessions."

You're right. There is nothing in the Torah that will conclude that it's about gratitude. However many of the commentators, such as Rambam, Rashi, David Kimchi, and more, all state that the sacrifices were voluntary - that God did not request them. This was how gods were worshiped, and the only way the Israelites knew how to show their gratitude to God, which is why God permitted the sacrifice ritual. He did however give us a set of rules to make it different from those of idolatry.
Granted, my speculation is based purely on a Midrash that many commentators seem to agree with. It certainly isn't fact as my first post may seem to suggest.

 

[metis]

You're right. There is nothing in the Torah that will conclude that it's about gratitude. However many of the commentators, such as Rambam, Rashi, David Kimchi, and more, all state that the sacrifices were voluntary - that God did not request them. This was how gods were worshiped, and the only way the Israelites knew how to show their gratitude to God, which is why God permitted the sacrifice ritual. He did however give us a set of rules to make it different from those of idolatry.
Granted, my speculation is based purely on a Midrash that many commentators seem to agree with. It certainly isn't fact as my first post may seem to suggest.

Could you maybe elaborate on this as I had not run across this before. For one question, Torah has God specifying how the sacrifices were to be conducted, so how do they get around that?

 

[dantech]

Could you maybe elaborate on this as I had not run across this before. For one question, Torah has God specifying how the sacrifices were to be conducted, so how do they get around that?

Sacrifices were offered to God before we ever had a Torah, or a set of laws. These commentators are suggesting that God didn't ask for these sacrifices, but accepted them because they were the only way these people knew how to worship someone.