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Islam debate
- Thread starter Yuusif12
- Start date
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
So you have stood before the Fire? You have seen Hell?
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
Don't believe everything you read in a book. That is my advice.
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
No, but I have evidence of the Truth of who says it. So I believe it.
True, that's why you look for the evidence for the Truth of what it says.
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
OK, that's fine. And I have evidence of my Truth... which is contrary to your Truth.
All of us look for the evidence. But some of us find one Truth but some of us find a different Truth.
loverOfTruth
Well-Known Member
Great ...
"1. Say (O Muhammad): "O Al-Kafirun (disbelievers in Allah)!
2. "I worship not that which you worship,
3. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
4. "And I shall not worship that which you are worshiping.
5. "Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6. "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism)."
Al Qur'an 109:1-6
Peace.
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
Wise words.
But we can still argue over who is right and who is wrong. It's fun and can be productive.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
That said, can you explain the interesting idea that "there is no compulsion in religion". How do you understand the idea? Are there limitations on that idea? (said the spider to the fly...)
gilligan8914
Member
Is it wrong for a Muslim to accept the teachings of the Quran only and no other writings?
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
It is wrong for anyone to accept only one set of writings. That would be like reading only a single poet, to the exclusion of all others.
it's God words, that why they are wise
.I don't know if there is a religion had this such word/teaching , to give the CLEAR right to other beliefs to exist .
(
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
it's God words, that why they are wise
I don't know if there is a religion had this such word/teaching , to give the CLEAR right to other beliefs to exist .
(
I understand that in many Muslim countries, apostasy is a crime. Is that true?
That's true.
I believe this law was temporare in the age of Muhammad (pbuh)
because the apostasy automaticly becomes ennemy in that period of time .
so it's expired law , and it's not recommanded in this age .
Allah knows best .
Sees
Dragonslayer
Why is it that Rabbi commentary ended up in the Qur'an as "scripture sent to the Jews" in your opinion?
Also do you think this implicates that Muhammad did not understand what was Tanakh or simply commentary, when it comes to what he heard from Jews?
I can understand Muhammad getting it wrong but not a God
Also what do you make of the demonic/torturous meetings between the angel and Muhammad when he was forced to recite what would become the Qur'an?
What do you make of the "Satanic Verses" that were remitted by Muhammad after he realized they went against monotheism and the rest of his recitals?
Also do you think this implicates that Muhammad did not understand what was Tanakh or simply commentary, when it comes to what he heard from Jews?
I can understand Muhammad getting it wrong but not a God
Also what do you make of the demonic/torturous meetings between the angel and Muhammad when he was forced to recite what would become the Qur'an?
What do you make of the "Satanic Verses" that were remitted by Muhammad after he realized they went against monotheism and the rest of his recitals?
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
More wise words. (And they are Godobeyer's words... not God's words.
)I hope more Muslims come to see it as you do. When belief is enforced upon people with the sword -- that's unhealthy.
I don't want to be a Muslim and if only Muslims will enter paradise I don't want go there either.
In much of the Muslim world there is total chaos. When they lack of outside enemies they fight among the different sects of Islam.
We have all been given a life that exist in the now but for fear of hell and the unproven promise of paradise after death you blindly follow leaders who supposedly know Allah's will. Most could never conceive of another view point because it is not allowed and would surely lead to eternal damnation and hell fire.
Why not try to find peace in this lifetime and stop judging all of humanity who live outside of Islam as ones who will be thrown into the eternal lake of fire with you standing there eager to toss them in?
Suppose for a moment that this life is the only chance you get to find peace, love, and happiness. If it was possible for you to even consider this possibility maybe we could all work together to make this world a better place.
Probably not. After all we are human. The creature with the most savage potential the world has ever known.
In much of the Muslim world there is total chaos. When they lack of outside enemies they fight among the different sects of Islam.
We have all been given a life that exist in the now but for fear of hell and the unproven promise of paradise after death you blindly follow leaders who supposedly know Allah's will. Most could never conceive of another view point because it is not allowed and would surely lead to eternal damnation and hell fire.
Why not try to find peace in this lifetime and stop judging all of humanity who live outside of Islam as ones who will be thrown into the eternal lake of fire with you standing there eager to toss them in?
Suppose for a moment that this life is the only chance you get to find peace, love, and happiness. If it was possible for you to even consider this possibility maybe we could all work together to make this world a better place.
Probably not. After all we are human. The creature with the most savage potential the world has ever known.
There is no compulsion in the religion means that we do not force people to accept Islam against their own will. As for jihad, it was prescribed when the Muslims were being attacked to defend themselves. After that it was made so that the Muslims could fight the rulers who oppress their people and not let them accept Islam.
But even in battle, they were not allowed to kill women, or children, or monks, or even cut down trees if they didn't need to.
The Muslims even lived side by side with the Jews. And when the Christians came they were the ones who oppressed them.
As for apostasy, I believe that it is still obligatory.
If someone accepts Islam, then they have to obey the rules. They can't pick and choose.
For example, no one is forced to go to america. But once they are there they can't disobey the laws
Muslims have to accept the teachings of islams and no other religion
Credance. You are hating Islam and you know nothing about it. Even if someone tryed to tell you would you listen?
But even in battle, they were not allowed to kill women, or children, or monks, or even cut down trees if they didn't need to.
The Muslims even lived side by side with the Jews. And when the Christians came they were the ones who oppressed them.
As for apostasy, I believe that it is still obligatory.
If someone accepts Islam, then they have to obey the rules. They can't pick and choose.
For example, no one is forced to go to america. But once they are there they can't disobey the laws
Muslims have to accept the teachings of islams and no other religion
Credance. You are hating Islam and you know nothing about it. Even if someone tryed to tell you would you listen?
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YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
So, to be fair, it is not a universal statement that there is no compulsion of any kind in religion. It only refers to forcing others into a particular religious viewpoint. For example, advising women to cover their hair, even mildly, IS compulsion. Forcing them to do it is another thing, but even suggesting they do it is still compelling another to do something.
Would it not be a much fairer statement to say, "There is no compulsion in religion in some situations." Or perhaps, "When calling people to Islam, the use of compulsion is forbidden."
I know, I know, neither of them sounds so broad minded...
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
I don't agree with you regarding apostasy.
First,it doesn't make sense and second there is no verse in the quran which ordering to punish the apostate and if it does exist then it'll contradict the verse which says that there is no compulsion in religion.
No compulsion means freedom and how to call it freedom while threatening to kill the apostate.
Imagine one christian converted to Islam then after awhile he wanted to convert back to Christianity,then do you think it makes sense to put a sword on his neck to force him to stay as a Muslim otherwise cutting his head off.
Sees
Dragonslayer
The protection tax, that Muslim scholars agree is a way to nudge non-believers over to Islam, is certainly compulsion. Saying for your God "....and only the religion of Islam will be accepted..." is certainly compulsion.
Do this or else you will be treated differently and/or punished in the hereafter = compulsion.
Do this or else you will be treated differently and/or punished in the hereafter = compulsion.