Who taught Christianity to Paul?

[roger1440]

Assuming that is true, what do you conclude from that?

His conversion on the "road to damascus" and taken up to the "third heaven" is one in the same. This would explain why Paul knew nothing about the living Jesus. Paul had attributed his "experience" to Jesus.

 

[steeltoes]

His conversion on the "road to damascus" and taken up to the "third heaven" is one in the same. This would explain why Paul knew nothing about the living Jesus. Paul had attributed his "experience" to Jesus.

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that these are one and the same but I would agree that Paul appeared to know nothing about a living Jesus.

 

[Ingledsva]

His conversion on the "road to damascus" and taken up to the "third heaven" is one in the same. This would explain why Paul knew nothing about the living Jesus. Paul had attributed his "experience" to Jesus.

Where does it say Paul was taken up to the third Heaven?


2 Co 12:2 basically says - I KNEW a man that was taken up to the third Heaven.


2 Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ, fourteen years ago, (whether in the body I know not, or out of the body I know not, God knows; such a one caught up to the third heaven.


I know a lot of church theologians have decided this is Paul talking about himself - but I have no idea how they came up with that as it says he KNEW him fourteen years ago, and 5 says -


2 Co 12:5 Of such a one I will boast, but of myself I will not boast, unless in my weaknesses.



*

 

[roger1440]

Where does it say Paul was taken up to the third Heaven?


2 Co 12:2 basically says - I KNEW a man that was taken up to the third Heaven.


2 Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ, fourteen years ago, (whether in the body I know not, or out of the body I know not, God knows; such a one caught up to the third heaven.


I know a lot of church theologians have decided this is Paul talking about himself - but I have no idea how they came up with that as it says he KNEW him fourteen years ago, and 5 says -


2 Co 12:5 Of such a one I will boast, but of myself I will not boast, unless in my weaknesses.



*

In all likelihood Paul is talking about himself in the third person as an attempt to be modest. Keep in mind, Paul's overall message in the New Testament is about Jesus, not about Paul.

 

[psychoslice]

I think Paul's whole message was about the Christ not Jesus, Jesus became the Christ and this is want Paul's message is all about, we becoming the Christ also, I feel the name Jesus was added many years later.

 

[Knight of Albion]

I think Paul's whole message was about the Christ not Jesus, Jesus became the Christ and this is want Paul's message is all about, we becoming the Christ also, I feel the name Jesus was added many years later.

Paul's message was about Churchianity and the furthering of the same, and nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity.
[True Christianity is about seeking Christ Consciousness, which is Love Consciousness.]

 

[2ndpillar]

In all likelihood Paul is talking about himself in the third person as an attempt to be modest. Keep in mind, Paul's overall message in the New Testament is about Jesus, not about Paul.

Dear roger,
You apparently are reading a different bible than me. Paul always seems to worry about his self professed position, whether he is trying to provide evidence that he is an apostle or that he is a prophet. The man professes humility, but goes on to say anyone is accursed if not in Gestapo step with him.
In actuality, the one who is accursed, is the one "who is all things to all men". Jeremiah 48:10,"Cursed be the one who does the Lord's work with deceit".

Galatians 1:8 NAS

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed !

 

[Boyd]

Paul's message was about Churchianity and the furthering of the same, and nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity.
[True Christianity is about seeking Christ Consciousness, which is Love Consciousness.]

There was no Christianity during the time of Paul. The movement was still Jewish, so it would have been virtually impossible for Paul to actually do something with Christianity.

On a side note, the teachings of Paul do make a foundation for Christianity. So Paul is needed for Christianity.

 

[Ken Brown]

Dear roger,
You apparently are reading a different bible than me. Paul always seems to worry about his self professed position, whether he is trying to provide evidence that he is an apostle or that he is a prophet. The man professes humility, but goes on to say anyone is accursed if not in Gestapo step with him.
In actuality, the one who is accursed, is the one "who is all things to all men". Jeremiah 48:10,"Cursed be the one who does the Lord's work with deceit".

Galatians 1:8 NAS

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed !

Hi 2ndpillar, didn't Paul teach the same Gospel that Yeshua taught?

Lk 24:25 - 24:27 (Yeshua's Gospel)

25 And He said to them, “O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 “Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?” 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

Lk 24:44 - 24:48 (Yeshua's Gospel)

44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 “You are witnesses of these things.

1Cor 15:1 - 15:4 (Paul's Gospel)

1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

2ndpillar, Paul's Gospel is the SAME Gospel as Yeshua's in that the Christ/Messiah suffered, died, was buried, and then raised on the third day ALL according to what Moses wrote:

Acts 26:22 - 26:23 (Paul's Gospel)

22 “So, having obtained help from Elohim, I stand to this day testifying both to small and great, stating nothing but what the Prophets and Moses said was going to take place; 23 that the Christ was to suffer, and that by reason of His resurrection from the dead He would be the first to proclaim light both to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”

Paul taught the exact same Gospel as Yeshua OPENED His Disciples minds to understand, namely, that He suffered, died, was buried, and then raised on the third day according to what Moses wrote. And if anyone teaches a different Gospel than what THEY taught, then those who teach that different gospel, are accursed. Why would you think Paul is teaching a Gospel different from what Yeshua taught? KB

 

[outhouse]

Keep in mind, Paul's overall message in the New Testament is about Jesus, not about Paul.

I don't know about all that.

Paul talks a lot about himself, hell Paul just talks a lot.


Paul definitely is trying to build himself up to be this great man, since he desperately wanted to be a real apostle.

 

[outhouse]

There was no Christianity during the time of Paul.
.

True.

The movement was still Jewish,

Do you consider Proselytes Jewish?


What about Gentiles who wanted to worship one god but not follow any of the strict rules in Judaism?


I would buy, Hellenistic Judaism, but the traditional Jewish movement died with Jesus, he was a failed messiah in traditional Judaism. Or we might have seen a great movement out of Galilee where he lived and taught, and where the apostles were from. Instead we see nothing at all.

On a side note, the teachings of Paul do make a foundation for Christianity. So Paul is needed for Christianity

Without Paul the movement would still be what it is today.

He was a small cog on a very big wheel. He was one teacher of hundreds.

We would still probably have the gospels exactly like they are now. back then Paul was looked at as a little rough, we see his apostles trying to soften up his stance a bit in later writings.


Without Paul, we would probably have a book from Timothy who co authored a few letters with Paul.

 

[steeltoes]

I don't know about all that.

Paul talks a lot about himself, hell Paul just talks a lot.


Paul definitely is trying to build himself up to be this great man, since he desperately wanted to be a real apostle.

Nonsense. Paul was as real as an apostle could be, he merely had to convince people that he was no longer persecuting those of the church of God, that's all. He had a past that he had to deal with, otherwise he was as much of an apostle as anyone that claimed to be one, and he knew it.

 

[2ndpillar]

Nonsense. Paul was as real as an apostle could be, he merely had to convince people that he was no longer persecuting those of the church of God, that's all. He had a past that he had to deal with, otherwise he was as much of an apostle as anyone that claimed to be one, and he knew it.

Dear steeltoes,
And who claimed to speak for God? And who accursed anyone who did not follow his teachings? Did Matthew give his own opinions, or claim to speak for God, or did he just apparently give witness to the history of the event, and the testimony of Yeshua? Did anyone of the 12 apostles call Paul and an apostle or a prophet, or was this in his own mind alone? John 5:31

Galatians 1:8 NAS
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed

 

[steeltoes]

Dear steeltoes,
And who claimed to speak for God? And who accursed anyone who did not follow his teachings? Did Matthew give his own opinions, or claim to speak for God, or did he just apparently give witness to the history of the event, and the testimony of Yeshua? Did anyone of the 12 apostles call Paul and an apostle or a prophet, or was this in his own mind alone? John 5:31

Galatians 1:8 NAS
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed

There were numerous apostles, not just twelve. You are confusing apostles that Paul wrote of with the twelve disciples that the gospel writers wrote of.

 

[outhouse]

If Paul was a real apostle, who sent him forth?

It wasnt dead Jesus. Pauls 180 from murdering members of this sect, to him changing to a believer was described by Paul as coming from a feeling within him.

 

[steeltoes]

If Paul was a real apostle, who sent him forth?

It wasnt dead Jesus. Pauls 180 from murdering members of this sect, to him changing to a believer was described by Paul as coming from a feeling within him.

We learn from Paul (Galatians 1&2), that first century apostles such as himself and Peter were appointed by God, in other words, they were self appointed.

 

[Ken Brown]

If Paul was a real apostle, who sent him forth?

It wasnt dead Jesus. Pauls 180 from murdering members of this sect, to him changing to a believer was described by Paul as coming from a feeling within him.

Hi outhouse, it appears Paul/Saul was set apart and sent forth by the Holy Spirit. KB

Acts 13:1 - 13:4

1 Now there were at Antioch, in the church that was there, prophets and teachers: Barnabas, and Simeon who was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. 4 So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia and from there they sailed to Cyprus.

 

[steeltoes]

Hi outhouse, it appears Paul/Saul was set apart and sent forth by the Holy Spirit. KB

Acts 13:1 - 13:4

1 Now there were at Antioch, in the church that was there, prophets and teachers: Barnabas, and Simeon who was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. 4 So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia and from there they sailed to Cyprus.

Some no doubt believe that there were really and truly oh apostles appointed by by the truly oh Jesus of Nazareth, see gospels.

 

[outhouse]

Hi outhouse, it appears Paul/Saul was set apart and sent forth by the Holy Spirit. KB

Acts 13:1 - 13:4

1 Now there were at Antioch, in the church that was there, prophets and teachers: Barnabas, and Simeon who was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, when they had fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. 4 So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia and from there they sailed to Cyprus.

Acts contradicts what Paul states himself.

And we know Acts is highly sensationalized by a skilled author

 

[Ken Brown]

Acts contradicts what Paul states himself.

And we know Acts is highly sensationalized by a skilled author

Hi outhouse, the writer of Luke clearly speaks about Paul being set apart and sent out by the Holy Spirit. What can be confusing about that, and how does Paul contradict this. KB