Prayer serves no purpose.

[Me Myself]

Which makes it a waste of time.

To you

Even if you dont believe in God, you gotta assume kids make imaginary friends because talking to their imagination helps them somehow.

Ultimately, it is not a waste of time for me and it is nota waste of time for a lot of people

When I pray, I find it very fulfilling. If it gave me nothing more, it would still be time well spent.

 

[Mycroft]

There are many types of prayer, not all prayers are for intercession... some are merely to express gratitude, some to provide consolation, motivation etc..

All of which the supposed god already knows about. Whatever you pray for, whatever type of prayer, etc. It already knows what you're going to pray about/for. Making the act of doing so redundant.

Let's look at it from a relevant perspective. Recently a Typhoon leveled the Philippines. So, in all probability, lots of people in lots of churches will be praying for those people, saying. 'Dear lord, please help the people of the philippines,' or something to that effect. Which is a waste of time. 1) if god had wanted to help those people it wouldn't have allowed a tornado to blow away their homes and livelihoods. 2) if it does wish to 'aid those in need' due to the Typhoon, it already decided to do that before it created the earth making said prayers completely redundant.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

All of which the supposed god already knows about. Whatever you pray for, whatever type of prayer, etc. It already knows what you're going to pray about/for. Making the act of doing so redundant.

Let's look at it from a relevant perspective. Recently a Typhoon leveled the Philippines. So, in all probability, lots of people in lots of churches will be praying for those people, saying. 'Dear lord, please help the people of the philippines,' or something to that effect. Which is a waste of time. 1) if god had wanted to help those people it wouldn't have allowed a tornado to blow away their homes and livelihoods. 2) if it does wish to 'aid those in need' due to the Typhoon, it already decided to do that before it created the earth making said prayers completely redundant.

Compassion is one of the side-effects of being religious/spiritual to some...not to me...but to some.

I totally agree with you that if God didn't want those people to suffer/die, He wouldn't have blown them off the face of the planet in the first place..

...but consider this, in other circumstances, those same religious people wouldn't have cared. There's nothing that consolidates/drives a community forward and together more than a natural disaster. We have seen it happen many times.

If you accept fate as being the ultimate end, then prayer serves no purpose and you are right.

If there's a chance that fate isn't pre-determined, then prayer may stand a chance, but it's pretty much lost 'after the fact'.

What I am trying to work out, is who is trying to be convinced of this?

 

[Me Myself]

All of which the supposed god already knows about. Whatever you pray for, whatever type of prayer, etc. It already knows what you're going to pray about/for. Making the act of doing so redundant.

Let's look at it from a relevant perspective. Recently a Typhoon leveled the Philippines. So, in all probability, lots of people in lots of churches will be praying for those people, saying. 'Dear lord, please help the people of the philippines,' or something to that effect. Which is a waste of time. 1) if god had wanted to help those people it wouldn't have allowed a tornado to blow away their homes and livelihoods. 2) if it does wish to 'aid those in need' due to the Typhoon, it already decided to do that before it created the earth making said prayers completely redundant.

It depends. If the law of attraction wete true, then prayer would not be redundant.

Of course I dont expect you to believe in it, but the thread is made from hypotheticals anyways, so that is my angle.

I believe in the power of thought and emotion to shape reality directly. Thus, my prayers to whatever god do inflict change in the world.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

All of which the supposed god already knows about. Whatever you pray for, whatever type of prayer, etc. It already knows what you're going to pray about/for. Making the act of doing so redundant.

Let's look at it from a relevant perspective. Recently a Typhoon leveled the Philippines. So, in all probability, lots of people in lots of churches will be praying for those people, saying. 'Dear lord, please help the people of the philippines,' or something to that effect. Which is a waste of time. 1) if god had wanted to help those people it wouldn't have allowed a tornado to blow away their homes and livelihoods. 2) if it does wish to 'aid those in need' due to the Typhoon, it already decided to do that before it created the earth making said prayers completely redundant.

You assume quite a bit about the nature of the god they pray to. Not every god is omniscient, not every god has a plan etc; under some god concepts prayer could serve a real purpose.

But yes, if the god is omniscient and has a plan - praying for intervention seems pointless.

 

[yokomodoful]

It's true. I was having a think about it today. This is for Christians...just to be clear.

1) pray for something.

2) is it part of god's divine plan?

2a) yes > prayer is redundant

2b) no > prayer is futile

3) There is no purpose to prayer.

Prayer is spending time with God. Do you consider spending time with the ones you love a waste of time?

 

[Mycroft]

Prayer is spending time with God. Do you consider spending time with the ones you love a waste of time?

I would if they already knew everything I was about to say. I'd just go and do something more interesting instead.

 

[Mycroft]

...but consider this, in other circumstances, those same religious people wouldn't have cared. There's nothing that consolidates/drives a community forward and together more than a natural disaster. We have seen it happen many times.

Well, as a result of the hurricane over 4 million children are struggling for food, shelter and clean water. It doesn't seem to indicate intelligence that a god should have to inflict this upon children in order to make some other people care.

 

[Mycroft]

You assume quite a bit about the nature of the god they pray to. Not every god is omniscient, not every god has a plan etc; under some god concepts prayer could serve a real purpose.

But yes, if the god is omniscient and has a plan - praying for intervention seems pointless.

I take your point, but in this thread we're speaking of the god of christian mythology. Who, indeed, claims to be omniscient. At the very least christian prayer is a waste of time.

 

[Quintessence]

I take your point, but in this thread we're speaking of the god of christian mythology. Who, indeed, claims to be omniscient. At the very least christian prayer is a waste of time.

Except you're blatantly ignoring the folks in this thread who have pointed out to you multiple times that not all Christian prayer is intercessory. I've yet to see any good rebuttal from you that positive thinking is pointless, that communication is pointless, or that gratitude/thankfulness is pointless. You're fixating on prayers that must be for one specific purpose - which doesn't cover the gamut of what they're used for, even if we're limiting to the Christian religion.

Regardless of how you feel about it, they don't feel that it's a waste of time whatsoever, but you seem content to brazenly declare it's universally pointless. Nonsense.

 

[Mycroft]

Except you're blatantly ignoring the folks in this thread who have pointed out to you multiple times that not all Christian prayer is intercessory. I've yet to see any good rebuttal from you that positive thinking is pointless, that communication is pointless, or that gratitude/thankfulness is pointless. You're fixating on prayers that must be for one specific purpose - which doesn't cover the gamut of what they're used for, even if we're limiting to the Christian religion.

Regardless of how you feel about it, they don't feel that it's a waste of time whatsoever, but you seem content to brazenly declare it's universally pointless. Nonsense.

I have stated several times, so let me be much clearer. Anything you say or think in prayer to the alleged god of christian mythology is already known to it, and has been known to it since before the alleged creation of the earth. Therefore, if everything you have said, and will ever say to it, no matter what that may be, is already known, it is a waste of time.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I would if they already knew everything I was about to say. I'd just go and do something more interesting instead.

Which is precisely why I said …

As for the rest, I sincerely recommend that you don't waste time on what you believe to be futile much as I won't waste time further discussing the matter with you.

:yes:

 

[Mycroft]

Which is precisely why I said …:yes:

So why waste time replying? lol.

 

[rusra02]

Sure, okay. But god already knows everything you're going to say. So it's still a redundant system. You may as well say 'dear god. You know what I'm gonna say. Amen.' And chalk it up to 2 seconds of your life wasted instead of 2 minutes.

God invites us to pray to him, to communicate our feelings, hopes, concerns. (Luke 18:1) Prayer is a means to express our faith in God, and a recognition of our dependence on him. It is ingratitude, IMO, to enjoy all life's blessings and not express thanks to the provider of all the good things. (James 1:17) I don't think a loving parent would be pleased if his children didn't express their feelings, even though the parent may be well aware of what those feelings are. A child who loves his father delights in speaking to him and sharing his feelings and thoughts. Prayer is a wonderful gift from the true God.

 

[Quintessence]

I have stated several times, so let me be much clearer. Anything you say or think in prayer to the alleged god of christian mythology is already known to it, and has been known to it since before the alleged creation of the earth. Therefore, if everything you have said, and will ever say to it, no matter what that may be, is already known, it is a waste of time.

Except you're not considering the human being on the other end of the equation. Whether or not their god already knows things is not relevant with respect to the human experience of prayer. Their god may be omniscient, but the human being is not. It's little different then a friend giving you a phone call to discuss something that you already know about (say, because they posted it on their blog that you read). Do you already know what happened? Yes. Does that make the more direct, personal interaction meaningless? According to you, yes. To you, communication is apparently pointless is one of the two parties already knows what's going on. If I read your blog, it's a pointless waste of time for me to talk to you or have any direct conversation with you about it. Never mind that you might want my thoughts on the matter or want amore personal, emotional connection that doesn't happen through a screen. It's all pointless.

Your objection becomes even more absurd when applied to the other prayer purposes I listed: positive thinking and gratitude/thankfulness. Human behavior and ritual cultivates character, as well as meaning and purpose in their lives. Praying for someone - even if the god doesn't intercede - cultivates a spirit of goodwill and lovingkindness in the person doing the prayer. And, if the person knows they're being prayed for, isn't it always nice to know someone in this world actually cares about you? I don't know if you have a loved one or not, but wouldn't you rather them say "I love you" every so often out loud instead of never saying it at all? Or are you seriously suggesting we should all be pessimistic, cynical ingrates?

 

[McBell]

It's true. I was having a think about it today. This is for Christians...just to be clear.

1) pray for something.

2) is it part of god's divine plan?

2a) yes > prayer is redundant

2b) no > prayer is futile

3) There is no purpose to prayer.

You seem to be under the impression that prayer is all about god.
What if prayer is not about god so much as it is about the one praying?

 

[Riverwolf]

I have stated several times, so let me be much clearer. Anything you say or think in prayer to the alleged god of christian mythology is already known to it, and has been known to it since before the alleged creation of the earth. Therefore, if everything you have said, and will ever say to it, no matter what that may be, is already known, it is a waste of time.

Only for those of us who hate conversation and prefer to keep talking to an absolute minimum, to serve only a direct, tangible purpose and nothing more, who regard simple chit-chat as a kind of sin.

 

[Mycroft]

Except you're not considering the human being on the other end of the equation.

You imply that prayer is purposeful on account of the fact it makes one feel better?

But do we not live upon this earth with billions of fellow human beings? Are our friends and family not capable of supplying counsel and conversation? And would that counsel and conversation be more valuable on account of the fact we are speaking with a tangible human being rather than some mythical deity whose only reply is silence and who has already determined all that you can say, all you can ask, and has already determined the answer.

 

[Quintessence]

You imply that prayer is purposeful on account of the fact it makes one feel better?

That's a gross oversimplification of its purpose that I wouldn't regard as accurate, but sure?

But do we not live upon this earth with billions of fellow human beings? Are our friends and family not capable of supplying counsel and conversation?

Of course we do, and of course we can. Are other human beings always present and accessible? No. Are other human beings always the right source of guidance for the situation? Also, no. There's no reason to limit yourself to communicating with human beings other than personal preference. If it's your personal preference to so limit yourself, that's your choice, but I don't find it appropriate to condemn other people as "wasting their time" for making a different choice.

And would that counsel and conversation be more valuable on account of the fact we are speaking with a tangible human being rather than some mythical deity whose only reply is silence and who has already determined all that you can say, all you can ask, and has already determined the answer.

Ah, and now we get to the atheist rhetoric. I was wondering when that would ooze it's way out.

All I've got to say here is that your personal experiences are not some absolute microcosm of everything in the universe. Theists can - and do - have "tangible" two-way communication with their deities. If you haven't had this experience, well... I can't help you there.

I also find it a little sad that you only find communication meaningful or bearing purpose if you receive a response. Hunting for a job must be painfully difficult for you, then. The way the job market works nowadays, you won't get a response on your communications the overwhelming majority of the time. Therefore, sending out job applications is utterly pointless given the low response rates.

 

[McBell]

You imply that prayer is purposeful on account of the fact it makes one feel better?

He may have been implying it, I will flat out say it.
Please take note that making people feel better is only one thing that prayer can help with.

But do we not live upon this earth with billions of fellow human beings?

Yes

Are our friends and family not capable of supplying counsel and conversation?

Obviously not, if they are taking counsel with prayer...

And would that counsel and conversation be more valuable on account of the fact we are speaking with a tangible human being rather than some mythical deity whose only reply is silence and who has already determined all that you can say, all you can ask, and has already determined the answer.

Again, obviously not, since they are taking counsel with prayer.