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Buddhism, intelligent design, unlawfullness.

Pedestrian

New Member
I see some people here are Buddhists.
Wow. it sounds very Poetic.

Does Buddhism have exact answers regarding intelligent design and some examples of violations of eternal morality?

Or Is Buddhism an ideology that leaves leeway for contradicting thoughts regarding these two topics?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I see some people here are Buddhists.
Wow. it sounds very Poetic.

Does Buddhism have exact answers regarding intelligent design and some examples of violations of eternal morality?

Why would Buddhism bother with intelligent design?

Can you give me an example of what an answer regarding violations of eternal morality would be? It sounds a bit too vague to be recognized.


Or Is Buddhism an ideology that leaves leeway for contradicting thoughts regarding these two topics?


Maybe it is just me, but it sure sounds like you are attempting to force a reductionist approach in order to convince yourself that you have the upper hand.

That, unfortunately, is a loss of time.
 

Monk Of Reason

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
I see some people here are Buddhists.
Wow. it sounds very Poetic.

Does Buddhism have exact answers regarding intelligent design and some examples of violations of eternal morality?

Or Is Buddhism an ideology that leaves leeway for contradicting thoughts regarding these two topics?

To my understanding the idea of creation is a non-issue to buddhists. "Who cares" is the accepted answer. I may be wrong and I'm sure different Buddists have different answers.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
To my understanding the idea of creation is a non-issue to buddhists. "Who cares" is the accepted answer. I may be wrong and I'm sure different Buddists have different answers.

There is always some personal variation, sure. But doctrine hardly ever even mentions such a matter. And when it does, "intelligent design" is an idea that goes very much against the grain of Buddhism.
 

Pedestrian

New Member
reductionist approach in order to convince yourself that you have the upper hand

:help:

That's a very awesome question. What is a good website to read to inform me of a more wholesome approach?

I'm not always that bright, but with God's help I will figure more things out as we go along.

Thanks for pointing out that my question regarding morality is unclear.
I am going to try and rephrase it:

Does Buddhism have....

1. A list of laws,
and when a law is broken a man repays the "universe" with some kind of act that establishes atonement.
2. A list of ideas which, if you follow them, you can be defined as a good person.
3. A golden rule about wrongness.
4. Anything regarding this topic.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
:help:

That's a very awesome question. What is a good website to read to inform me of a more wholesome approach?

How are we to Live? by Peter Singer | Issue 24 | Philosophy Now

I'm not always that bright, but with God's help I will figure more things out as we go along.

Thanks for pointing out that my question regarding morality is unclear.
I am going to try and rephrase it:

Does Buddhism have....

1. A list of laws, and when a law is broken a man repays the "universe" with some kind of act that establishes atonement.

That is in fact a very good question. In a way it does, but it is a bit misleading to just say so.

Ultimately, laws are not very conductive to morality, and often a hindrance.

You may want to read a bit of the Tao Te Ching and its commentaries; they are a superb source of reflection on the relationship between law and morality.


2. A list of ideas which, if you follow them, you can be defined as a good person.

That would be the Dharma, I suppose. But it is important to emphasize that following external moral directives is counterproductive until and unless personal reflection and adjustments are adopted.


3. A golden rule about wrongness.

Sorry, I do not understand what you mean here. What is to be understood as wrongness, and what would a variety of the golden rule specific to it be like?

Are you perhaps appealing to a desire of punishment or reward according to moral value?

4. Anything regarding this topic.

You mean morality?

Sure. Read about Sila.
 

apophenia

Well-Known Member
:help:

That's a very awesome question. What is a good website to read to inform me of a more wholesome approach?

I'm not always that bright, but with God's help I will figure more things out as we go along.

Thanks for pointing out that my question regarding morality is unclear.
I am going to try and rephrase it:

Does Buddhism have....

1. A list of laws,
and when a law is broken a man repays the "universe" with some kind of act that establishes atonement.
2. A list of ideas which, if you follow them, you can be defined as a good person.
3. A golden rule about wrongness.
4. Anything regarding this topic.

Luis Dantas' answers to these questions are very helpful.

A lama once said to me " It seems that westerners think that there is a list of questions here, and a list of answers there, and your job is to match the questions with the answers ..."
 

Pedestrian

New Member
Thank you LuisDantas. Thats all I wanted to know.
I am completely satisfied regarding the original heading and purpose of this thread.

Like some people are trigger-happy I am thread-happy.

Only a joke.
What I want to ask is this: Except for some good answers you have also shared your opinions regarding aspects of these topics. If I want to discuss one of these aspects or share why I differ in view regarding the opinion one of you shared,...

...do I open a new thread?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Thank you LuisDantas. Thats all I wanted to know.
I am completely satisfied regarding the original heading and purpose of this thread.

Like some people are trigger-happy I am thread-happy.

Only a joke.
What I want to ask is this: Except for some good answers you have also shared your opinions regarding aspects of these topics. If I want to discuss one of these aspects or share why I differ in view regarding the opinion one of you shared,...

...do I open a new thread?

I must admit that I got a confrontational vibe from your early posts. It looks like I may have been mistaken. Sorry about that.

Of course, you can certainly open new threads and/or participate on existing ones. Just be careful about the differently-colored groups (Purple ones are exclusive for certain political perspectives, green and particularly blue are exclusive for certain faith perspectives).

General Religious Debates might be a good start.
 

apophenia

Well-Known Member
...do I open a new thread?

I know you are asking Luis, but my thoughts are ...it is a good thread topic, it has created a spark ... keep going. :)

RF is a nice mix of order and anarchy. If a thread is generating worthwhile dialog, then it's all good.

My two cents worth ... buddhism isn't prescriptive in terms of precise moral laws. Sila (moral discipline) is something the practitioner must discover within themself, not a list of DOs and DON'Ts to memorise. The Burmese buddhist Goenka (founder of the Vipassana organisation) said that our physical sensations are a good guide to morality - good actions produce a warm inner glow, and bad actions produce a jarring and unpleasant sensation. This is one of the reasons that taking the physical sensations as the object of meditation can be unexpectedly instructive.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
The propagation of greed, hatred and delusion leads to long term harm and poisons ones own mind.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
I see some people here are Buddhists.
Wow. it sounds very Poetic.

Does Buddhism have exact answers regarding intelligent design

From the Acintita Sutta:

"Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.​

So if you want to experience madness and vexation, conjecturing about intelligent design would be a good way to experience it.

Unbiased scientific investigation isn't really conjecture, imo.
 

apophenia

Well-Known Member
From the Acintita Sutta:
"Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.​

Indeed. On the other hand, there is an old Tibetan saying ... 'where there is great confusion, there is immense dharma'.

One could take madness and vexation as the object of meditation. This is called 'licking honey off a razor blade'.
 
:help:

That's a very awesome question. What is a good website to read to inform me of a more wholesome approach?

I'm not always that bright, but with God's help I will figure more things out as we go along.

Thanks for pointing out that my question regarding morality is unclear.
I am going to try and rephrase it:

Does Buddhism have....

1. A list of laws,
and when a law is broken a man repays the "universe" with some kind of act that establishes atonement.
2. A list of ideas which, if you follow them, you can be defined as a good person.
3. A golden rule about wrongness.
4. Anything regarding this topic.

Regarding "intelligent design," I would agree with Monk of Reason. "Who cares" would be a good Buddhist answer.

But if you actually really, really, really want to know about how the Buddha explains reality and how he says reality - our world - comes into being, then I would refer you to the last book of the Pali Canon called the Abhidhamma Pitaka, which are the Buddha higher teachings/dhamma.

Basically, in the abhidhamma, the world itself does not arise from so called intelligent design. It can be said on the other hand, that the "foundation," or the "fundamental suchness" (svalaksana), of reality is inherently "intelligent," but not sentient. This statement can be easily grossly misunderstood.

In the abhidhamma the Buddha basically says that our reality as we know it consists of three constituent parts. The first part is what he called "Dhamma."

In the abhidhamma, the word "dhamma" is used in an entirely different way. Here, dhamma is used by the Buddha to mean the most fundamental units of "information." Much like pixils on your computer screen are the most "fundamental" units of the overall image you see on your screen.

The second part of reality is Mind/citta. So Mind apprehends dhamma, and then projects it as the world of experience.

Analogously, dhamma here would be like the digital bits of 1's and 0's on your computer hard drive. Your mind would be your operating system. The operating system is exposed to the digital information, and then translates it into consciously understandable images and letters on your screen.

So on a fundamental level, the dhamma itself is "intelligent," meaning that dhammas are units of information.

1. A list of laws, and when a law is broken a man repays the "universe" with some kind of act that establishes atonement.
Yes and no.

As far as "laws" a Buddhist "needs" to follow goes, they do exist, BUT: the following of them depends on how deep a person desires to go into Buddhism.

In Buddhism, the Buddha designed his Way to have "levels." The first and most basic "level" is when a person takes the three jewels. This can be likened to your Entry Level in Buddhism, your "Freshman" Grade in Buddhism.

One level above that is when a Buddhist promises to follow the Pancha Sila (5 Precepts). This would be like you being a Sophomore in the school of Buddhism.

Another level above this is when a Buddhist vows to follow the 5 Precepts plus 3-4 more rules. This would be like you being a Junior in the school of Buddhism.

And so, these levels of devoutness keeps growing, with more and more rules you promise to follow, until you reach that level where you vow to follow over 200 precepts, which is what a Bhikkhu (monk) is.

These rules are not holy or divine in nature. They are simply rules you vow to follow in the spirit of self-discipline, and also to show how devoted you are to the Way.

In my culture 90% of everybody only take the three jewels. Only old people (those with grey hair) and the very religious take the 5 precepts. Following the 5 precepts in our culture would mean you can't drink alcohol of any kind one "Sila days." A Sila day is based on the lunar calendar. There is one every 14 or 15 days, plus full moon days.

So on those sila days, you can't drink alcohol, can eat meat, fast all day, no sex, don't lie, try not to kill anybody, and don't steal anything.

The old people take their precepts more seriously and they permanently abstain from sex, drinking alcohol, and so on, the rest of their life.

And, again, this is a matter of self-discipline. If you break your vow and drink beer on a friday, it's not like you'll burn in Buddhist hell or anything. It just means you suck and lack Samadhi (concentration).

Self-discipline, should bring up images of a young soldier who has just gotten out of bootcamp. before bootcamp the boy was undisciplined. And after bootcamp, the young soldier has something called self-control and his actions are disciplined.

This has a lot to do with Buddha's idea of Karma, meaning what actions we input into life, we reap an end result. And so, if you are undisciplined in mind, word, and act, you end up manifesting unproductive fruit in life.

On the other hand, if you have samadhi - willed concentration/focus - where you are in control of your thoughts, your emotions, and your actions, then you are lord of your own domain.

The causal chain here is our thoughts influences our emotions. Our emotions influences our actions, and our acts bears fruit (vipaka). That causal process in Buddhism is called Karma.

Following these rules is also a matter of another important causal chain the Buddha speaks of.

This causal chain is Sila->Samadhi->Prajna, or in English: Precepts->Focus->Wisdom.

The end goal here is that you desire to manifest Prajna/Wisdom. And so to do that you must start with Sila. Sila brings into being the environment or condition of samadhi/concentration. And from that concentration you can manifest Wisdom.

So the idea is that when you follow the precept of not killing people, this helps you give rise to a condition in your life where you can concentrate your efforts instead on manifesting Wisdom. Whereas, if you were busy killing people, you may be go to prison, or get killed yourself and such consequential conditions are just not conducive to manifesting Wisdom.

It would be like being in college during finals week. The basic idea is that you desire to graduate. And so finals week is important. And so in this college analogy you have a causal chain: Sila->Samadhi->Prajna.

Meaning that if you want to pass your finals you need to create a condition or environment where you are able to spend time concentrating (samadhi) on studying.

And so to create that condition where you can study, it becomes that you have certain "rules" you need to follow. Such as no partying during finals week. No drinking beer either. No going out with your girlfriend or friends either. No watching TV, and so on.

Why follow these rules? To give rise to the right condition where you can study. Why study? because you want to pass your finals. That's a causal chain.

So why follow sila? To give rise to a condition conducive to samadhi. Why samadhi? because you want to manifest Wisdom. But if a Buddhist does not desire to manifest Wisdom, then the Buddhist has no need to follow the precepts.

3. A golden rule about wrongness.
The golden rule about wrongness in Buddhism can be put this way: "You will eat what you have cooked."

This means that if in life you are a major F-ck up, your actions will manifest the end results of a f-ck up, and you yourself will have to deal with those end results.

Or, if you go around assaulting random people, eventually you will have to deal with the fruit (vipaka) of your own actions (karma).

And in Buddhism, there is no forgiveness of your "wrong actions," and no praying to some list of gods for help. The golden rule is: Think twice before you act.
 
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