Yemeni child bride dies after internal bleeding on marriage night

[Assad91]

Ugh - to be quite frank this whole thing with Aisha is a minefield. 6, 9, 16,19 etc.

We could argue this 'til we're both blue in the face, ultimately we will never know for certain how old she was (since we were not there). However, in my opinion at least from what I have seen, Aisha was between the ages of 6 and 9 when the marriage was "consummated".

To be perfectly honest with you, whether she was 9 or 6 it was still pedophilia - it was still completely morally reprehensible for a man in his 50's..... even worse for an apparent Prophet of an all just and merciful God.

With all honesty, the hadith is either fabricated, the narrator lied, or Ayesha lied.

Problem is, there is evidence that backs this.

I don't see why people accept Sahih Bukhari/Muslim without care for their opposition that points out the impossibility of it all being authentic.

In my mind, it holds the same validity as the hadith where supposedly the Prophet (pbuh&hf) went out in public exposed. Dirt, rubbish, and nonsense.

If you have time watch this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXCvnposB1k

 

[Alceste]

The men who marry such girls in Islam are probably the same sort of men who become child abusing priests in Christianity, they are merely expressing it in a way that their culture facilitates. To me it is no mystery in terms of the men; what intrigues me is why the child's family allows it, unfortunately the only answer that really comes to mind why a family might allow their child to be treated in such a way is that perhaps they have little choice (in terms of poverty most likely) - that is what we need to address with relation to this issue, not Islam but rather the conditions which result in a family believing that they have no option but to treat their daughter in such a way.

What is it about patriarchal monotheism that gives certain gross old men the notion that it's OK to rape children? Catholicism, Mormonism, Islam, you name it. Wherever God is a man and men have a privileged position in society, you get little girls and boys being raped and molested everywhere you look, and adherents of whatever religion the villains happen to belong to making excuses for the rapists.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Rolling the concept of holiness and worldly influence into a single package and bestowing it on humans. It creates an inherent power difference that is almost divinely sanctioned. There is not much you can't get away with if you are perceived to have god on your side. It is difficult for a devout believer who is also a parent to believe their child who makes such claims about a 'holy man' it is even more difficult for that belief to then gain credibility within their community even if the parent does believe the child. It's just such a vast difference in terms of worldly influence.

 

[Assad91]

What is it about patriarchal monotheism that gives certain gross old men the notion that it's OK to rape children? Catholicism, Mormonism, Islam, you name it. Wherever God is a man and men have a privileged position in society, you get little girls and boys being raped and molested everywhere you look, and adherents of whatever religion the villains happen to belong to making excuses for the rapists.

Yeah. A world without religion wouldn't just bring about world peace, but also no pedophilia

And who is making excuses for the rapists?

 

[Assad91]

*post Removed*

Not a lot of people are defending pedophilia.

Sure there are some weirdos who do. But most of us Muslims are vehemently against such.

 

[Alceste]

Not a lot of people are defending pedophilia.

Sure there are some weirdos who do. But most of us Muslims are vehemently against such.

Happy to hear it. I do see a lot of Muslim men on RF (and also the occasional non-Muslim man, to be fair) arguing that puberty means a female child is ready for sex. I'm relieved to hear they're in the minority.

 

[Treks]

That poor, poor child. What a horrible torture before her death. How scared she must have been, and in so much pain.

Good to see that ****wit of an excuse of a man has learned from his religion and his society to be MERCIFUL, COMPASSIONATE, KIND ... maybe these things aren't mentioned as much as a man's rights over women, conqust in war, slaves etc in his religion OR his culture. At any rate there is NO EXCUSE for not being a decent human being. Maybe he's just too inbred to have enough brain cells for anything other than SEX and FOOD to register in there.

 

[Aquitaine]

With all honesty, the hadith is either fabricated, the narrator lied, or Ayesha lied.

Problem is, there is evidence that backs this.

I don't see why people accept Sahih Bukhari/Muslim without care for their opposition that points out the impossibility of it all being authentic.

In my mind, it holds the same validity as the hadith where supposedly the Prophet (pbuh&hf) went out in public exposed. Dirt, rubbish, and nonsense.

If you have time watch this;

[youtube]HXCvnposB1k[/youtube]
Did the Prophet (sawa) marry Aisha at 6 years of age? - YouTube

Admittedly I haven't watched your link yet, but out of curiosity how old do you think Aisha was? I remember reading about her moving in with Mohamad and playing with her "dolls" which in my mind, reinforced the very possible idea that she was indeed between 6-9 years old.

At the end of the day though, this debate will rage on for as long as Islam is around. Both sides are essentially fighting scripture with scripture.

Then again, as I am not a Muslim, it doesn't really affect me.

 

[Assad91]

Admittedly I haven't watched your link yet, but out of curiosity how old do you think Aisha was? I remember reading about her moving in with Mohamad and playing with her "dolls" which in my mind, reinforced the very possible idea that she was indeed between 6-9 years old.

Yeah, from "sahih" muslim or bukhari. Which is lies. Hence the contradictions from other reports in the same books.

I think she was between 16-20

 

[Aquitaine]

Yeah, from "sahih" muslim or bukhari. Which is lies. Hence the contradictions from other reports in the same books.

I think she was between 16-20

I see. In that case then, do you know why other Muslims (I assume Logical7 here is one) seem to lend credibility to the idea of Aisha being around 9 years old, and why the aforementioned Islamic "limitation" is apparently made?

I am not a scholar and so i maybe very wrong.
The 9 years limitation is mostly based on the report of Ayesha's age when the marriage was consumated.
But according to other reports she could be around 16 to 18.

The bottom line is girl should have reached puberty.

I know that Islam isn't as "unified" as some of it's followers may like to make out; all religions have different branches and contradictions, so do you view the "limitation" Logical7 mentioned as "void" - made under false interpretation of scripture etc?

 

[payak]

Happens in Buddhist societies to, quite a lot.

 

[Me Myself]

Not all Muslims do. What I'm trying to find out, is why those who do, do it at all.

Apparently, they find children to be sexy and the Qran doesnt directly forbade it, so, that.

 

[Semitone-Truce]

Its a cultural practice. According to Islam a girl is eligible to be married when she reaches puberty but it cannot be less that 9yrs of age even if she gets periods before that(precocious puberty).
This was done everywhere and there was not an arbitary age limit of 18 to distinguish children and adults.
The average life expectancy was in 30s, so it would be foolish to marry late and get a career first

i am always amazed at how people judge ancient history/society by today's standards.

What happened with the girl is wrong but before blaming Islam why not ask a simple question. Did they follow the islamic rules? Or they still give preference to pre-islamic ways yet just get labelled as muslims.

If I remember correctly, the age of consent was 10 in most American states until the turn of the century. In Deleware it was as low as 7 which means that technically someone who was 40 could marry a 7 year old and get away with it.

In the rural parts India today, if I'm not mistaken a lot of marriages are arranged at infancy and it is possible for a man who is much older to arrange a marriage with someone to be consummated as soon as they come of age, around 12 or 13.

 

[FearGod]

No, she was killed by being raped, due to a culture and religion that sanctions and promotes such proceedings.

And what's your point? Yes children die for a multitude of reasons. That in no way means that we can't speak out against a specific horrific, ignorant, and disgusting practice that results in a child being raped to death.

We hear these stories sporadically of little girls dying through this abhorrent practice. But what of the many others that don't die? These poor children are stuck in a life of repeated rape, when their bodies and minds are much too young to handle such things. Just awful.

No,there is no relation to religion and i don't think such kind of man killing an innocent girl
for the purpose of his sexual pleasure to be a muslim by any means.

That is a crime similar to many crimes all over the world.

Man rapes 10-year-old girl at Great Northern Mall, kills woman
Court docs: 9-month-old found dead had severe vaginal trauma
TRAGIC: 9-Year-Old Girl Raped To Death In Anambra
Seven-year-old rape survivor's father reveals shocking statement made by official: full transcript
A 43-YEAR-OLD Mount Darwin man was arrested at the weekend for allegedly raping his 10-year-old daughter.

Richard Dawkins himself admitted that he was sexually abused by his teacher and it was OK.

Atheist Richard Dawkins makes shocking claim about pedophilia


Dawkins made the remarks in a recent interview with The Times magazine. He said that during his time at a boarding school as a boy in the 1950s, a teacher “pulled me on his knee and put his hand inside my shorts.” Dawkins described the incident as “mild pedophilia” that left him no worse off. Neither Dawkins nor the other boys abused by this teacher suffered permanent physical or mental damage, he said.

Read more: Atheist Richard Dawkins makes shocking, offensive claim about pedophilia | The Daily Caller

So mild pedophilia according to atheism is fine if causing no harm,touching,kissing..etc
Reference : Richard Dawkins is totally cool with "mild pedophilia" - The Something Awful Forums

 

[Treks]

All those people should be fried in a vat of oil, they are the lowest scum.

 

[farouk]

Peace to all.
I am an old man.Married my wife at a very young age.We have children,grand children and great grand children.I married my children(daughter and sons) also at an early age.My grand children were also married at an early age.We are all one happy big family.Now what is all this nonsence and fuss about getting married at an early age?
Can any intellectual person tell me what age is ripe for a male or female to get married?
Tks in advance.
Peace
Farouk

 

[Treks]

It's still sick and COMPLETELY UNJUSTIFIABLE and I don't care what wacked out religion or screwed up culture anyone is from - we're all HUMANS here.

The problem with marriage in this context is that these "men" view the women as their PROPERTY to do with as they like. They acquire her like a sportscar and then thrash the **** out of her because she's just a piece of property, he doesn't care.

Farouk would you accept this of a man towards your 8 year old daughter? Would you accept him killing her with his **** because he has no compassion, care, decency, or sense of responsibility or anything at all floating about in his empty cranium?

 

[Alceste]

Peace to all.
I am an old man.Married my wife at a very young age.We have children,grand children and great grand children.I married my children(daughter and sons) also at an early age.My grand children were also married at an early age.We are all one happy big family.Now what is all this nonsence and fuss about getting married at an early age?
Can any intellectual person tell me what age is ripe for a male or female to get married?
Tks in advance.
Peace
Farouk

Do you think 8 year old children should get married?

 

[logical7]

The girl in this article was 8, hence why I asked if she only waited one more year, would it be "okay"?

Depends if she was sexually mature at the age of 9. Also if she consented.

I told that some scholars have this opinion based on some historical report and others differ.
I cannot also know if this poor girl was abused "unnaturally" and that caused the internal bleeding. The groom was sure a pervert animal to even try to do something to her when it would be obvious that she is not ready physically.

I also doubt the story being posted and i have my reasons to doubt dailymail reports, i saw it on another forum but how should i verify that its true?

Even considering it true, its nothing more than an example that sick people exist everywhere and they at some places use the cover of ignorant cultural practices to get away with their sickness!

 

[farouk]

Do you think 8 year old children should get married?

Peace
Alceste
You did not answer my question.Non the less answer the next one.
How do you know an 8 year old is a child and not a women?