Why worship the biblical god?

[Man of Faith]

And the chabad website translates the verse as this:

14. The Lord [then] reconsidered the evil He had said He would do to His people.

Which is the same translation as the Stone Edition Tanach.

There is no doubt that some translations use the word evil. Could that be because disasters and calamities when used in the archaic English language would be considered evil? When we know that a disaster can befall on people that do evil when good people respond to that evil.

 

[Rakhel]

There is no doubt that some translations use the word evil. Could that be because disasters and calamities when used in the archaic English language would be considered evil? When we know that a disaster can befall on people that do evil when good people respond to that evil.

Baring in mind that I have a headache(damned apartment upstairs is being renovated and the workers sound like they are trying to dig a hole to china through my living room, and La Guardia has changed their take-off pattern) I am going to try to answer your question the best way I know how.

I think anything that is not good has been labelled evil. Be it people, places, things or events.
David Koresh was evil. Osama Bid Laden was evil. Assad is evil. Hurricane Sandy(an act of G-d) was evil. Guns are evil, drugs are evil....The list goes on and on.
Like someone said(not sure if it was this thread or another) People are not evil. They just do evil things.
II don't know if that answers your question, but it's the best I got

 

[Shiranui117]

Yes he did. How can something exist that god did not create, assuming he created everything? He at least created the ability or the circumstance in which we could sin, so your "firefighter metaphor" doesn't really work here.

God created man, and man deviated from God. This deviation from God is the definition of sin. Your argument is that God had to create a state of deviation and separation from Himself. How does that make sense?

 

[Introvert]

God created man, and man deviated from God. This deviation from God is the definition of sin. Your argument is that God had to create a state of deviation and separation from Himself. How does that make sense?

That is not my argument. God created everything, he created the same urges in us that he would call "impure", he created our ability to sin. Sin is not just "separation from god", it is any act that god deems a sin. Your firefighter metaphor is hardly the same thing.

 

[Harrytic]

The biggest problem is that we are all judging God (or God concept by those who don't believe in Him) by human standards.

Seeing as we are humans that's all that we can do. I'm sure God would expect nothing more.

But I don't see it as judging God as such. I see it as acknowledging God's true nature. I think it shows more integrity to acknowledge God for what he is and how the bible portrays him, than trying to justify him and sugar coating him. I see no benefit in that, other than to make one-self feel better about worshiping him and witnessing on his behalf.

 

[Harrytic]

I assume you're being sarcastic, but it seems many people must have that view of Christianity.

No, not sarcastic at all. I think my above post will explain my stance on that. Sugar Coating serves no purpose but to make one feel better about one's choice of God.

 

[Harrytic]

Except it's not the God of the Bible, and it's not the God that Jesus preached about.

Then you are clearly reading a different bible to what I am. Jesus preached of a God that would sentence us to eternal suffering if we do not accept him as our saviour. And the Hebrew texts... well you just have to read those without the rose-colored glasses to see that God is a cruel God who likes to play games with his creations.

God is who God is. I see no point in denying his true nature to feel good about myself.

 

[Harrytic]

This is not a valid reason, it's a cowards reason.

How is it cowardly to surrender to a superior force that you know you can't possibly defeat?

 

[Shiranui117]

How is it cowardly to surrender to a superior force that you know you can't possibly defeat?

You might as well surrender to the Taliban or al-Qaeda in that case. Standing up to evil even if it means suffering the worst possible fate is both more just and carries more integrity than submitting to said evil. Your position is indeed the coward's way out, without an ounce of decency or courage.

 

[Shiranui117]

Then you are clearly reading a different bible to what I am. Jesus preached of a God that would sentence us to eternal suffering if we do not accept him as our saviour. And the Hebrew texts... well you just have to read those without the rose-colored glasses to see that God is a cruel God who likes to play games with his creations.

God is who God is. I see no point in denying his true nature to feel good about myself.

The OT MUST be read through the lens of the NT. You're going the other way around.

But I suppose you're just ignoring the entirety of the NT, anyway. You're ignoring God being compassionate and merciful, long-suffering and of great goodness. You're ignoring God being love. You're ignoring God being the One Who wishes to redeem us to sin and death. You're ignoring the fact that God so LOVED the world, that He gave His Only-Begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have life everlasting. You're ignoring that God became one of us and is with us. And so much more...

 

[Harrytic]

That is not my argument. God created everything, he created the same urges in us that he would call "impure", he created our ability to sin. Sin is not just "separation from god", it is any act that god deems a sin. Your firefighter metaphor is hardly the same thing.

Alas, this is so. God knew the ramifications of everything he did, being omniscient. He created Satan, knowing full well the evil creature he was unleashing on the earth. Those scriptures Introvert pointed out show us that God is that type of God. God knew that when he created Adam and Eve that he was creating them with a rebellious nature and that they WOULD rebel. He set up a test that he ordained them to fail. It was clearly his will that they rebelled and were thrown out of the Garden of Eden. God created a world that as sin entered it it became corrupt. He did nothing to allow for this contingency. Bad planning? No deliberate planning.

So God is certainly responsible for the mess that has evolved just as a human would be responsible for creating a robot that was designed with flaws that resulted in the robot rebelling against him.

The big question is why would God do this sort of thing? To me it’s obvious. He’s a God. A God requires some kind of entertainment. A game. Having a world full of obedient creations whose lives are tranquil would be incredibly boring. Any good game also has to have an opponent, so bring in Satan as that opponent. It all becomes like some really amazing chess game where it’s one-on-one, God vs Satan.

 

[Harrytic]

You might as well surrender to the Taliban or al-Qaeda in that case. Standing up to evil even if it means suffering the worst possible fate is both more just and carries more integrity than submitting to said evil. Your position is indeed the coward's way out, without an ounce of decency or courage.

This isn't some school yard bully or some terrorist organisation here. We are talking about a God here. A supernatural entity... a force that could wipe us all out with a spoken word. This is the entity that created the world. He created us for his pleasure and he can do with us what we like and there's nothing we can do about it. Standing up to him would just be a silly and foolish thing to do. HOw arrogant to think that you could possibly stand up to the creater of the universe.

 

[Shiranui117]

This isn't some school yard bully or some terrorist organisation here. We are talking about a God here. A supernatural entity... a force that could wipe us all out with a spoken word. This is the entity that created the world. He created us for his pleasure and he can do with us what we like and there's nothing we can do about it. Standing up to him would just be a silly and foolish thing to do. HOw arrogant to think that you could possibly stand up to the creater of the universe.

I didn't say I would succeed. But standing up to an evil being is better than cowering before it. At least then I have some integrity, even if I'm erased from existence the very next microsecond or consigned to eternal torture.

 

[Introvert]

The big question is why would God do this sort of thing? To me it’s obvious. He’s a God. A God requires some kind of entertainment. A game. Having a world full of obedient creations whose lives are tranquil would be incredibly boring. Any good game also has to have an opponent, so bring in Satan as that opponent. It all becomes like some really amazing chess game where it’s one-on-one, God vs Satan.

Ah, so all the suffering, injustice, evil, sadness, it's all just for gods amusement? He created sentient beings capable of feeling pain, just for fun? Hell is just for god's amusement too?

You're making him sound way more evil and sinister than I ever did.

 

[Harrytic]

The OT MUST be read through the lens of the NT. You're going the other way around.

I disagree. The OT paints a picture of God and what he is. God later decided to change his methods - thus the NT. But still we see a God who expects complete and utter obedience or else. You can't just ignore the way God is in the OT. That's being dishonest about who God is.

But I suppose you're just ignoring the entirety of the NT, anyway. You're ignoring God being compassionate and merciful, long-suffering and of great goodness. You're ignoring God being love. You're ignoring God being the One Who wishes to redeem us to sin and death.

God can be loving and merciful when he wants to be, no doubts about that. But you can't just look at the good and ignore God's bad points. That's being intellectually dishonest and sceptics will not take you seriously.

You're ignoring the fact that God so LOVED the world, that He gave His Only-Begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have life everlasting. You're ignoring that God became one of us and is with us. And so much more...

Sure, it's great that God has done this. It sets him apart from all the other Gods, but still... God requires a blood sacrifice. The act of sacrifice and the smell of the slaughtered animal pleases him. He brought in Jesus to provide an easier way for us to avoid his wrath without having to continually spill the blood of an innocent animal. Blood however has no supernatural power over God and in the long run it’s up to him whether he forgives or not.

And if we do not accept his sacrifice then he will have us cast into hell. It’s an obvious threat to anyone who does not have the mindset that God is loving, wonderful, merciful and just. It shows us that God is the same God who wiped out the world with a flood, the same God who ordered a man stoned to death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath… the same God who struck a man dead simply for trying to save the Ark of the Covenant from falling.

Clearly the NT God is exactly the same as the OT God.

 

[Harrytic]

I didn't say I would succeed. But standing up to an evil being is better than cowering before it. At least then I have some integrity, even if I'm erased from existence the very next microsecond or consigned to eternal torture.

I truly believe that even if you were burning for five minutes, totally engulfed in flames just to get a taste of what it's like, you would quickly change your mind. It's all very well to talk tough on the Internet. A totally different thing if you're put in the situation. If there's one thing we know when it comes to humans is torture... even the threat of it... is enough to cause even the toughest of individuals to submit. Integrity and bravery would go hurtling down the gurgler pretty quick.

I think anyone who claims they would still stand up to God, facing that hellacious fate, are lying to themselves.

 

[Introvert]

God knew that when he created Adam and Eve that he was creating them with a rebellious nature and that they WOULD rebel. He set up a test that he ordained them to fail. It was clearly his will that they rebelled and were thrown out of the Garden of Eden. God created a world that as sin entered it it became corrupt. He did nothing to allow for this contingency. Bad planning? No deliberate planning.

So God is certainly responsible for the mess that has evolved just as a human would be responsible for creating a robot that was designed with flaws that resulted in the robot rebelling against him.

The big question is why would God do this sort of thing? To me it’s obvious. He’s a God. A God requires some kind of entertainment. A game. Having a world full of obedient creations whose lives are tranquil would be incredibly boring. Any good game also has to have an opponent, so bring in Satan as that opponent. It all becomes like some really amazing chess game where it’s one-on-one, God vs Satan.

Answer me honestly, do you ever question this ludicrous nonsense you are spouting? Do you ever think to yourself "this doesn't really make any sense"? Why does a god need entertainment? You are thinking of a god as having the needs of a human. And even if he did, could he not find a better way of entertaining himself than watching billions of people suffer and die and burn in hell? This is just nonsense.

I accept that god may be real, but a god would not be as petty and jealous and evil as you make him sound. He would not care which book you live your life by, so long as it was morally sound. He would not burn people eternally just for "fun". I guess I just expect more out of a god than you do.

 

[Harrytic]

Ah, so all the suffering, injustice, evil, sadness, it's all just for gods amusement? He created sentient beings capable of feeling pain, just for fun? Hell is just for god's amusement too?

You're making him sound way more evil and sinister than I ever did.

It really is a certain amount of conjecture on my part and I don't know exactly what God intended. In fact I believe that God is limited and is not omniscient. Perhaps he did his best to create humans with what resources he had and as a result certain things were inevitable... things that he did not invisage. I would also not say that Hell was for God's amusement, but God is a wrathful God and that much the bible shows us. God WILL inflict eternal suffering on us if we don't worship him.

 

[Harrytic]

Answer me honestly, do you ever question this ludicrous nonsense you are spouting? Do you ever think to yourself "this doesn't really make any sense"?

Of course. I spent a lot of time questioning the bible and decide to take off the rose-colored glasses that Christians look through. I came to the conclusion that God was not as loving and wonderful as what fellow-Christians were saying. That they were being dishonest about God. That is why I have come to the conclusions that I have come to.

It seems we agree about the nature of the God of the bible. In that case you are spouting as much ludicrous nonsense as I am! LOL

Why does a god need entertainment? You are thinking of a god as having the needs of a human. And even if he did, could he not find a better way of entertaining himself than watching billions of people suffer and die and burn in hell? This is just nonsense.

Weren’t you, when you started this thread having a go at the God of the bible claiming that he is evil and malevolent and not worthy of worship? You seem to be confused.

I’m am not trying to portray a God who gets glee over the suffering of humans, nor do I think he is going to be sitting there with a ringside seat cheering and hollering as the majority of his creations burn in Hell. But come on now, what do you think a God would do to keep himself busy? Sit around twiddling his thumbs sitting on a cloud? You just have to look at intelligent beings to know that they require more complex methods of entertainment than unintelligent beings. A bird can quite happily sit in a cage and tweet all day long, but put a human in there? They’d be driven crazy. Imagine how much more a superior intellect such as a God would require to keep themselves busy.

The bible illustrates a God that is very human indeed. He gets wrathful, jealous, remorseful and exhibits many other human tendencies. God created us in his image, so it makes sense. God created himself a giant chess game. Is it so hard to believe that a God would do that?

I accept that god may be real, but a god would not be as petty and jealous and evil as you make him sound. He would not care which book you live your life by, so long as it was morally sound. He would not burn people eternally just for "fun". I guess I just expect more out of a god than you do.

I do not believe God would burn people eternally just for fun. Hell is for those who reject him as their God. It is a punishment. You are deliberately distorting what I have said in my previous posts.

 

[Introvert]

Weren’t you, when you started this thread having a go at the God of the bible claiming that he is evil and malevolent and not worthy of worship? You seem to be confused.

Perhaps I didn't explain my viewpoint clearly enough. I do not believe in this god. Even if I did, I would not worship him. My question was "why worship the biblical god?". Obviously to worship him, you would have to believe in him, so I was speaking in a hypothetical sense, assuming he was real and the bible was true. I must have stepped out of the hypothetical view for a few posts without first explaining my own beliefs, I apologize for the confusion.

I’m am not trying to portray a God who gets glee over the suffering of humans, nor do I think he is going to be sitting there with a ringside seat cheering and hollering as the majority of his creations burn in Hell. But come on now, what do you think a God would do to keep himself busy? Sit around twiddling his thumbs sitting on a cloud? You just have to look at intelligent beings to know that they require more complex methods of entertainment than unintelligent beings. A bird can quite happily sit in a cage and tweet all day long, but put a human in there? They’d be driven crazy. Imagine how much more a superior intellect such as a God would require to keep themselves busy.

So how long was God sitting around in heaven until he got bored enough to create the universe? and he couldn't have found entertainment in a way that doesn't cause suffering on earth and eternally in hell? Of all the arguments I've heard for why God would do the things the bible says he did, "he was bored" is one of the most odd and amusing. The bible says nothing about god being bored, as far as I know, so you must have came up with this yourself. You seem smart enough to come up with a better idea than this, you must not have thought it through very long.