Muslims Only: killing by the name of Islam or democraty in syria ?

[Godobeyer]

i am realy sorry about the condition that some muslims countries arrived to .

i wounder how some people calling the civilain war that support by west in syria , and before it Iraq and libya , is Jihad or revolution or arabic spring ...etc


يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لا تَتَّخِذُوا الْيَهُودَ وَالنَّصَارَى أَوْلِيَاءَ بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاءُ بَعْضٍ وَمَنْ يَتَوَلَّهُمْ مِنْكُمْ فَإِنَّهُ مِنْهُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ. [المائدة:51]
Almaaeda 51

there is many point about this issue , first the wrong fatwas that big muslim leaders said about , instead to ask the muslims to avoid this fitna , unforunlty they support it by extrem fatwas , allow to fight not make peace !!!

{وَإِنْ طَائِفَتَانِ مِنْ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ اقْتَتَلُوا فَأَصْلِحُوا بَيْنَهُمَا فَإِنْ بَغَتْ إِحْدَاهُمَا عَلَى الأُخْرَى فَقَاتِلُوا الَّتِي تَبْغِي حَتَّى تَفِيءَ إِلَى أَمْرِ اللَّهِ فَإِنْ فَاءَتْ فَأَصْلِحُوا بَيْنَهُمَا بِالْعَدْلِ وَأَقْسِطُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ } [سورة الحجرات: 9].

Alhujurat 9

second big point is the media , in the war against Libya i discovered that media (aljazeera and arabiyah ...etc ) based their stories ,by fake reports or lies , or only the reports that support their view , and i there is evidences about that
ليس كما يقولون : الراي و الراي الاخر


in the end , the demorcaty should not bring from the outside (the west ) , by supporting the rebels and send the terroristes to fight , muslims by the name of Islam

what is your opinion ?

 

[jazzymom]

So the Syrians are not out there protesting and fighting to get rid of Bashar al-Assad?

He is killing his own people isn't he?

Is all media lying?

Maybe they don't want to live under a dictatorship?

It has been an Arab spring, is that not a good thing?

 

[apophenia]

I honestly have almost no idea about what is really going on. I live in Australia and watch the news etc, and that is the only information I have. Popular journalism is very shallow, and of course every country suffers bias of some form in news reporting.

What I seem to have seen is populations deciding to actively resist and overthrow oppressive regimes. I remember that in many instances there were muslim people saying that they need help from outside, whether in the forms of arms, no-fly zones, or freezing the assets of dictators.

I have no information on how these public movements came into existence. There are vague suggestions about the use of social media, and that is about all.

Godobeyer, what do you think happened ? And what do you think will happen in the near future ? Do you think these troubles in the arab world are being created by the west ? Or do you think that the arab people are going through legitimate internal changes ? Also, what is your opinion of the influence of social media in these events ?

 

[Pastek]

The father of Bashar himself killed many people in the 80's who rebelled against him. He killed women and children. You find that normal ?

You say that if we support the rebels we are in the side of the jews and christians ??? (you quoted 5.51)

Then i remind you that Syria is supported by Russia and China.
Russia who is killing tchetchens, China who oppressed the ouighours

The "rebels" (for me they must be called "resistants" but whatever), fight against oppression.

Like Tunisian did against Ben Ali . Ben Ali who never wanted that tunisians show any support to Palestinians. Did you see any demonstrations for Palestinians from the tunisians in the time of Ben Ali ? No, because they weren't allowed to do so.

Kadafi used to kill, kidnapp and torture his people. I know it because i have some cousins who live there and they told us.

You are from Algeria, you must know better how a governement can oppress his own people.
Don't need to tell you that your governement killed Mohammad Boudiaf a great man. Allah yarahmou
And the 200,000 martyrs in that time.

Blaming Al jazeera will lead nowhere. That what do all the supporters of tyranic governements : Al Assad, Kadaffi and Ben Ali

Al Assad, Kaddafi and Ben Ali, i remind you that they did nothing for muslims around the world and nothing for the palestinians.
Just blabla from Assad and Kadaffi, and total silence from Ben Ali

 

[Godobeyer]

So the Syrians are not out there protesting and fighting to get rid of Bashar al-Assad?

He is killing his own people isn't he?

Is all media lying?

Maybe they don't want to live under a dictatorship?

It has been an Arab spring, is that not a good thing?

i am discuss the islamic religious view about this problem , more than politic view , if you want to discuss it from politic issue please reply here , because i post many evidences and opinion there .

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...37136-why-west-support-terrorism-syria-3.html

 

[Godobeyer]

The father of Bashar himself killed many people in the 80's who rebelled against him. He killed women and children. You find that normal ?

You say that if we support the rebels we are in the side of the jews and christians ??? (you quoted 5.51)

Then i remind you that Syria is supported by Russia and China.
Russia who is killing tchetchens, China who oppressed the ouighours

The "rebels" (for me they must be called "resistants" but whatever), fight against oppression.

Like Tunisian did against Ben Ali . Ben Ali who never wanted that tunisians show any support to Palestinians. Did you see any demonstrations for Palestinians from the tunisians in the time of Ben Ali ? No, because they weren't allowed to do so.

Kadafi used to kill, kidnapp and torture his people. I know it because i have some cousins who live there and they told us.

You are from Algeria, you must know better how a governement can oppress his own people.
Don't need to tell you that your governement killed Mohammad Boudiaf a great man. Allah yarahmou
And the 200,000 martyrs in that time.

Blaming Al jazeera will lead nowhere. That what do all the supporters of tyranic governements : Al Assad, Kadaffi and Ben Ali

Al Assad, Kaddafi and Ben Ali, i remind you that they did nothing for muslims around the world and nothing for the palestinians.
Just blabla from Assad and Kadaffi, and total silence from Ben Ali

can i quote and reply to you "my opinion" about this issues in politic section ? , because here i want just the religious opinion .
here http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...37136-why-west-support-terrorism-syria-3.html

 

[Godobeyer]

I honestly have almost no idea about what is really going on. I live in Australia and watch the news etc, and that is the only information I have. Popular journalism is very shallow, and of course every country suffers bias of some form in news reporting.

What I seem to have seen is populations deciding to actively resist and overthrow oppressive regimes. I remember that in many instances there were muslim people saying that they need help from outside, whether in the forms of arms, no-fly zones, or freezing the assets of dictators.

I have no information on how these public movements came into existence. There are vague suggestions about the use of social media, and that is about all.

Godobeyer, what do you think happened ? And what do you think will happen in the near future ? Do you think these troubles in the arab world are being created by the west ? Or do you think that the arab people are going through legitimate internal changes ? Also, what is your opinion of the influence of social media in these events ?

good reply and question
can i reply to you in politic section ? here in this link :
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...37136-why-west-support-terrorism-syria-3.html

because i want to know the religious opinions here , about extrem fatwas , and the issues of the killing muslims each other by the name of Islam or democraty ....etc

 

[Pastek]

can i quote and reply to you "my opinion" about this issues in politic section ? , because here i want just the religious opinion .
here http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...37136-why-west-support-terrorism-syria-3.html

The religious opinion is that you have to be loyal.
And never be with bad people just because they call themselfs "muslims" when we have proofs that they are injust.

2. 204 And of the people is he whose speech pleases you in worldly life, and he calls Allah to witness as to what is in his heart, yet he is the fiercest of opponents.

2.205 And when he goes away, he strives throughout the land to cause corruption therein and destroy crops and animals. And Allah does not like corruption.

----------

8.58 If you [have reason to] fear from a people betrayal, throw [their treaty] back to them, [putting you] on equal terms. Indeed, Allah does not like traitors.

8.61 And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah . Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.

--------
5.9 O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah , witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do.

And i so on ....

We can make a treaty with non muslims as long that they don't betray us and ask for peace.

Who tried to make peace between algerians in the period of civil war ?
Muslims ? Bashar ? Ben Ali ?
No, christians. > Plate-forme de Sant'Egidio - Wikipédia

 

[jazzymom]

i am discuss the islamic religious view about this problem , more than politic view , if you want to discuss it from politic issue please reply here , because i post many evidences and opinion there .

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...37136-why-west-support-terrorism-syria-3.html

And I am just asking questions, I am not giving an opinion. I was not offering any opinions.



So the Syrians are not out there protesting and fighting to get rid of Bashar al-Assad?

He is killing his own people isn't he?

Is all media lying?

Maybe they don't want to live under a dictatorship?

It has been an Arab spring, is that not a good thing?

I am interested in your responses as a Muslim who in the op blames the west and the media for the fighting in Syria. I am not interested in a debate just the Muslim outlook on what is happening in Syria.

 

[Pink Top Hat]

And I am just asking questions, I am not giving an opinion. I was not offering any opinions.

So the Syrians are not out there protesting and fighting to get rid of Bashar al-Assad?

what happened in Syria was not like what happened in Tunisian and Egypt
it was more like Libya where foreign powers took advantage of a very small uprising and created a civil and sectarian war out of it
Damascus and Alleppo were not part of the uprising till more than a year after Homs and Hama uprising
Syria is controlled by outside forces and the Syrians are like the Libyans caught in the middle and Libya will end up worse than Libya which is already a disaster because Syria is more strategic to Western interests and has much bigger and more diverse population

He is killing his own people isn't he?

IF Staten Island residents all got guns tomorrow and started attacking the government of Obama, bombing offices, killing the people in the surrounding districts calling on a Christian Crusade and were being supplied with weapons and bombs and suicide bombers from Cuba or Venezuela...................how do you think American forces and government would handle it? Do you think Obama would give the same orders as Assad is giving to stop total anarchy? would Obama step down and allow the leader of the Staten Island crusaders to take office and take control of the country, it's airports and ports and TV media and government institutions?

Is all media lying?

well we know that a lot of Western media is

sadly Al Jazeera and Al Arabeya joined the propaganda machine and are now totally unreliable and many of it's reporters defected a year ago because of its bias

Maybe they don't want to live under a dictatorship?

Those uprisers in Homs and Hama could have left then if they did not want to live under Assad instead of destroying the country totally with the help and assistance of Israel the USA and Saudi and Qatar
Thank God for Russia and China or it would be far worse

It has been an Arab spring, is that not a good thing?

ONLY IF that Arab Spring is FROM the people. It must be like Egypt and Tunisia, done with absolutely no outside interference

I am interested in your responses as a Muslim who in the op blames the west and the media for the fighting in Syria. I am not interested in a debate just the Muslim outlook on what is happening in Syria.

It's pretty clear now that this is not an Arab Spring, or a popular uprising in Syria.
This is about weakening Syria and creating total instability in the region so that each country is focused on survival and their focus has been taken away from the real enemy of the nation the Israelis and the American hegemony and the final chapter is to destroy Iran under any circumstances to control world oil and resources in the region. Saudi are playing a very dangerous game which many still do not see.

Turkey has been sucked into the conflict by the Israelis because they refused to cow down to them after Mavi Marmara and now are suffering. Turkey naively backed the West when they should haver backed Assad and stopped the total chaos now in the region.

 

[jazzymom]

And I am just asking questions, I am not giving an opinion. I was not offering any opinions.





what happened in Syria was not like what happened in Tunisian and Egypt
it was more like Libya where foreign powers took advantage of a very small uprising and created a civil and sectarian war out of it
Damascus and Alleppo were not part of the uprising till more than a year after Homs and Hama uprising
Syria is controlled by outside forces and the Syrians are like the Libyans caught in the middle and Libya will end up worse than Libya which is already a disaster because Syria is more strategic to Western interests and has much bigger and more diverse population



IF Staten Island residents all got guns tomorrow and started attacking the government of Obama, bombing offices, killing the people in the surrounding districts calling on a Christian Crusade and were being supplied with weapons and bombs and suicide bombers from Cuba or Venezuela...................how do you think American forces and government would handle it? Do you think Obama would give the same orders as Assad is giving to stop total anarchy? would Obama step down and allow the leader of the Staten Island crusaders to take office and take control of the country, it's airports and ports and TV media and government institutions?



well we know that a lot of Western media is

sadly Al Jazeera and Al Arabeya joined the propaganda machine and are now totally unreliable and many of it's reporters defected a year ago because of its bias


Those uprisers in Homs and Hama could have left then if they did not want to live under Assad instead of destroying the country totally with the help and assistance of Israel the USA and Saudi and Qatar
Thank God for Russia and China or it would be far worse



ONLY IF that Arab Spring is FROM the people. It must be like Egypt and Tunisia, done with absolutely no outside interference


It's pretty clear now that this is not an Arab Spring, or a popular uprising in Syria.
This is about weakening Syria and creating total instability in the region so that each country is focused on survival and their focus has been taken away from the real enemy of the nation the Israelis and the American hegemony and the final chapter is to destroy Iran under any circumstances to control world oil and resources in the region. Saudi are playing a very dangerous game which many still do not see.

Turkey has been sucked into the conflict by the Israelis because they refused to cow down to them after Mavi Marmara and now are suffering. Turkey naively backed the West when they should haver backed Assad and stopped the total chaos now in the region.

I would like to respond but since this is the Islamdir I can't but suffice it to say I do disagree but I can't go further because I am not muslim.

 

[Godobeyer]

The religious opinion is that you have to be loyal.
And never be with bad people just because they call themselfs "muslims" when we have proofs that they are injust.

2. 204 And of the people is he whose speech pleases you in worldly life, and he calls Allah to witness as to what is in his heart, yet he is the fiercest of opponents.

2.205 And when he goes away, he strives throughout the land to cause corruption therein and destroy crops and animals. And Allah does not like corruption.

----------

8.58 If you [have reason to] fear from a people betrayal, throw [their treaty] back to them, [putting you] on equal terms. Indeed, Allah does not like traitors.

8.61 And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah . Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing.

--------
5.9 O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah , witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do.

And i so on ....

We can make a treaty with non muslims as long that they don't betray us and ask for peace.

Who tried to make peace between algerians in the period of civil war ?
Muslims ? Bashar ? Ben Ali ?
No, christians. > Plate-forme de Sant'Egidio - Wikipédia

i believe these verse of Quran corespond too ,more enough to the leader in Qatar and Ksa ....etc
not Bashar .

 

[Godobeyer]

So the Syrians are not out there protesting and fighting to get rid of Bashar al-Assad?

He is killing his own people isn't he?

Is all media lying?

Maybe they don't want to live under a dictatorship?

It has been an Arab spring, is that not a good thing?

i reply to here
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3047086-post35.html

 

[Godobeyer]

The father of Bashar himself killed many people in the 80's who rebelled against him. He killed women and children. You find that normal ?

You say that if we support the rebels we are in the side of the jews and christians ??? (you quoted 5.51)

Then i remind you that Syria is supported by Russia and China.
Russia who is killing tchetchens, China who oppressed the ouighours

The "rebels" (for me they must be called "resistants" but whatever), fight against oppression.

Like Tunisian did against Ben Ali . Ben Ali who never wanted that tunisians show any support to Palestinians. Did you see any demonstrations for Palestinians from the tunisians in the time of Ben Ali ? No, because they weren't allowed to do so.

Kadafi used to kill, kidnapp and torture his people. I know it because i have some cousins who live there and they told us.

You are from Algeria, you must know better how a governement can oppress his own people.
Don't need to tell you that your governement killed Mohammad Boudiaf a great man. Allah yarahmou
And the 200,000 martyrs in that time.

Blaming Al jazeera will lead nowhere. That what do all the supporters of tyranic governements : Al Assad, Kadaffi and Ben Ali

Al Assad, Kaddafi and Ben Ali, i remind you that they did nothing for muslims around the world and nothing for the palestinians.
Just blabla from Assad and Kadaffi, and total silence from Ben Ali

i reply to you here
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...st-support-terrorism-syria-4.html#post3047066

 

[Sahar]

Are you serious? What is this?

Fitna between Muslims? Who are the Muslims exactly? The children killers? Worshipers of the criminal bashar? The sadists who enjoy torturing little kids? The merciless animals who killed more than 300 hundred persons, in one day, among them children and women? This is only one of the massacres that were committed recently...

Several hundred bodies have been found in a town near Damascus after a ferocious assault by the Syrian army, according to a watchdog group, as activists accused government forces of a gruesome "massacre".

A grisly video issued by the opposition showed bodies piled up wall-to-wall in a mosque complex in Daraya after a massive offensive by troops battling to crush insurgents who have regrouped in the outskirts of the capital.

Syria accused of 'massacre' near Damascus - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

Such beings manifest kufr in its best, no disbelief can be more clear than it's in the kafir bashar and his gang; they disbelieve in God, and disbelieve in humanity. They don't belong to humans, not to mention belonging to Muslims.

Until now around 27,000 Muslim were killed by the pig bashar and his damned gang...they will burn in Hell, God willing...

Innocents are killed in hundreds every day is Syria and you spout such talk!! What a joke! I feel sorry for you, really. I feel sorry for any human being who belittle the agony of the humans in Syria, their lives, their wounds and their screams.


What happens in Syria is that evil is killing humanity everyday and the world is watching...what a disgusting world that we live in...

This is what happens in Syria:

A real recent photo from the bleeding Syria...

 

[Pastek]

Exactly Sahar, some people prefer to point the others as ennemies, when sometimes the ennemy is among us.

It's impossible that "terrorists" kill as much people and the president can't do nothing.
It's not Iraq.

Really Godobeyer, i'm curious about what you think happened in you own country few years ago.
You're supposed to know better what a state can do to stay in place, and that the "terrorist card" was already played too much.

 

[Godobeyer]

Are you serious? What is this?

Fitna between Muslims? Who are the Muslims exactly? The children killers? Worshipers of the criminal bashar? The sadists who enjoy torturing little kids? The merciless animals who killed more than 300 hundred persons, in one day, among them children and women? This is only one of the massacres that were committed recently...

Syria accused of 'massacre' near Damascus - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

Such beings manifest kufr in its best, no disbelief can be more clear than it's in the kafir bashar and his gang; they disbelieve in God, and disbelieve in humanity. They don't belong to humans, not to mention belonging to Muslims.

Until now around 27,000 Muslim were killed by the pig bashar and his damned gang...they will burn in Hell, God willing...

Innocents are killed in hundreds every day is Syria and you spout such talk!! What a joke! I feel sorry for you, really. I feel sorry for any human being who belittle the agony of the humans in Syria, their lives, their wounds and their screams.


What happens in Syria is that evil is killing humanity everyday and the world is watching...what a disgusting world that we live in...

This is what happens in Syria:

A real recent photo from the bleeding Syria...

you what this ?

Aljazeera ********, and All the media of the west is not my reference of any information , because they diffuse their own opinions not "true information"
if you watch the liars , that's your problem .

because it's not debat forum here

please join us in this link . we are already discuss this issue in politic forum .

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...37136-why-west-support-terrorism-syria-4.html

 

[Godobeyer]

Exactly Sahar, some people prefer to point the others as ennemies, when sometimes the ennemy is among us.

It's impossible that "terrorists" kill as much people and the president can't do nothing.
It's not Iraq.

Really Godobeyer, i'm curious about what you think happened in you own country few years ago.
You're supposed to know better what a state can do to stay in place, and that the "terrorist card" was already played too much.

i reply to you here
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...st-support-terrorism-syria-5.html#post3054129

 

[Sahar]

you what this ?

Aljazeera ********, and All the media of the west is not my reference of any information , because they diffuse their own opinions not "true information"
if you watch the liars , that's your problem .

Your ignorance of the nature of the Arab revolutions and the sources of information can't be more clear. The social internet platforms, Youtube, Skype, etc., have played the main role in coverage of these revolutions...and it's used by the activists from the middle of the events. All the news agencies use the activists and revolutionists as a source of information and they admit saying "according to Syrian activists", "according to Syrian human rights groups", etc.

I don't think there is a sane person who can deny the tons of massacres committed by the gangs of bashar and the tons of the videos that depict them, the tens of thousands who fled their homes...oh right all this is faked by the Western media...

and All the media of the west is not my reference of any information

And what is your source of information? If AL-Jazeera and Al-'Arabyia are western media? Ummmm....www.basharthepig.com?
www.iranian_revolutionary_gaurd.com?
www.hizbullat.com?

 

[Godobeyer]

Your ignorance of the nature of the Arab revolutions and the sources of information can't be more clear. The social internet platforms, Youtube, Skype, etc., have played the main role in coverage of these revolutions...and it's used by the activists from the middle of the events. All the news agencies use the activists and revolutionists as a source of information and they admit saying "according to Syrian activists", "according to Syrian human rights groups", etc.

I don't think there is a sane person who can deny the tons of massacres committed by the gangs of bashar and the tons of the videos that depict them, the tens of thousands who fled their homes...oh right all this is faked by the Western media...


And what is your source of information? If AL-Jazeera and Al-'Arabyia are western media? Ummmm....www.basharthepig.com?
www.iranian_revolutionary_gaurd.com?
www.hizbullat.com?

it's not the place to discuss a politic issue here .
all your reponses are here in this thread :http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...st-support-terrorism-syria-6.html#post3056468