11 year old girl facing death penalty for "blasphemy"

[JustWondering]

So the actions of those people are unjustified no matter how you look at it.

I NEVER said these people's actions were justified. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[JustWondering]

I said that they have a criminal law against blasphemy.

Blasphemy against what exactly?

 

[Debater Slayer]

I NEVER said these people's actions were justified. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I was speaking from a purely Islamic perspective, since you apparently thought that Islam contained justification for what they did. That's why I quoted Qur'anic verses showing otherwise.

 

[Father Heathen]

It is a religion of peace. That doesn't mean people won't try to twist it and use it as justification for horrible acts of injustice... or bigotry

Why does it get twisted more often than other religions?

 

[jasonwill2]

I'm being labeled as the "bad guy" because I don't humor theists. I'm being labeled as the "bad guy" because I don't immediately excuse theists bad behavior. Religion is at the heart of this situation. If you want to label me as the "bad guy" for pointing this out and not backing down, then go ahead. My point is valid.

No one has excused their actions.

Fail troll is obvious.

 

[Father Heathen]

An eleven year old girl with Downs Syndrome, no less. Does anybody have an example of fanatics of some religion other than Islam acting this crazy? Acid in the faces of schoolgirls, death sentences for adultery, threats of murder for drawing pictures of Mohammed... Sorry, but it always seems to be Islamic fundamentalists doing these things. I know Christian fanatics like to shoot the occasional abortion doctor, but it's far less common.

It seems to me there's either something about Islam that makes a significant portion of its adherents violent, hateful and insane, our there's something about the fusion of church and state that empowers religious believers to become violent, hateful and insane.

Exactly. I don't understand why people are so adamant about brushing these details under the rug.

 

[JustWondering]

I was speaking from a purely Islamic perspective, since you apparently thought that Islam contained justification for what they did. That's why I quoted Qur'anic verses showing otherwise.

There are literally hundereds of different interpretations of Christianity. Why wouldn't it be different with Islam? They think they are justified and doing what is right. Humans can do nothing else. Did not Christians burn witches? Was it right? No. However, their religous beliefs supported it. That cannot be denied. Maybe they would have lynched those poor women regardless. You think? I don't think so. I'm less tolerant of decisions made based on supernatural belief systems though.

 

[JustWondering]

No one has excused their actions.

Lol, no, you want us to believe people in Pakistan love abusing children.

 

[robo]

I was speaking from a purely Islamic perspective, since you apparently thought that Islam contained justification for what they did. That's why I quoted Qur'anic verses showing otherwise.

Exactly! Islam is a religion of peace. These barbarians are motivated by something else.

Now then, Debate Slayer, would you support prosecuting under blasphemy law these barbarians who are giving true and peaceful Islam such a bad name?

Clearly they are blaspheming the peaceful nature of Islam, right? What could be a greater crime than twisting the words of Allah WRONGLY, yes?

 

[Falvlun]

Who else wants to swoop in ninja style and whisk the little girl and her family to safety? And why don't we have a black-ops unit that can do just that?

I'm in.

 

[Debater Slayer]

There are literally hundereds of different interpretations of Christianity. Why wouldn't it be different with Islam? They think they are justified and doing what is right. Humans can do nothing else. Did not Christians burn witches? Was it right? No. However, their religous beliefs supported it. That cannot be denied. Maybe they would have lynched those poor women regardless. You think? I don't think so. I'm less tolerant of decisions made based on supernatural belief systems though.

I already quoted Qur'anic verses which indicate in plain text that such actions aren't condoned under Islamic law. Which parts of Islamic texts make you think that they are? Perhaps you could cite them here for reference?

And I think that people who use religious belief as a justification for killing people would still kill people even if no religion at all was involved. The reasons may be different, but the principle is still the same.

 

[Father Heathen]

Islamophobia is not rational.

I should come up with the term "rationalophobia" and start slinging it around. Would be easier than formulating arguments.

 

[Father Heathen]

May I ask, can you imagine any other means outside a religious validation in which they could justify putting a child to death for tearing pages out of a book?

Exactly.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Dogmatic extremism warps cultural narratives (including religion) and subborns them to an extremist agenda. This occurs whether we are talking about Christian pogroms against the Jews, distortions of Islam in places like Pakistan, or the secular Red Terror directed agains the Catholic church. To blame extremism on 'supernaturalism' is pathetically ignorant and, given the xenophobic undercurrents of the tirade, wilfully ignorant as well.

 

[JustWondering]

And I think that people who use religious belief as a justification for killing people would still kill people even if no religion at all was involved. The reasons may be different, but the principle is still the same.

Thats not the case here.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Exactly! Islam is a religion of peace. These barbarians are motivated by something else.

Now then, Debate Slayer, would you support prosecuting under blasphemy law these barbarians who are giving true and peaceful Islam such a bad name?

Clearly they are blaspheming the peaceful nature of Islam, right? What could be a greater crime than twisting the words of Allah WRONGLY, yes?

I'd definitely support prosecuting anyone who demanded that a child be killed, yes. I'm not sure about the part regarding doing it under "blasphemy law," though. I'd just support prosecuting them for wanting to kill a child.

Leaving such people free to call for unjustifiably harming others can only result in more problems in the future.

Thats not the case here.

What is it, then? As was demonstrated earlier, the religion's stance on this is clear, and it is against the actions perpetuated by those people. What do you think caused it other than barbarism and extreme ignorance?

 

[JustWondering]

To blame extremism on 'supernaturalism' is pathetically ignorant and, given the xenophobic undercurrents of the tirade, wilfully ignorant as well.

Supernatural belief systems are used to justify doing bad things. That is simply a FACT. This situation revolves solely around religion. FACT.

 

[JustWondering]

What do you think caused it other than barbarism and extreme ignorance?

Ignorance of what exactly? What is it that you think these people are ignorant of? Please explain.

 

[gnomon]

I couldn't read the whole thread due to being tired of reading the same tired arguments.

Girl, 11, Could Face Death in Pakistan for 'Blasphemy' - Yahoo! News

What aspect of a culture would bring it to the point of demanding the death of a child?

The religious aspect. Don't expect the so called progressives of RF who like spewing progressive babble for the sake of appearing tolerant.

What it's used for is a modern style witch hunt. People have a disagreement over property in Pakistan then scream blasphemy. The blasphemy laws in Pakistan are used not in every instance as a means to protect religious sentiment but to resolve petty disputes with a heavy hand.

In this instance we definitely have a friction between two religious communities and no one has come forward with any obvious evidence that the neighbor's who alleged blasphemy had anything to gain from taking property from a dirt poor neighbor. It appears to me that one community has latched on to something to drive out another community. A different religious community.

That is a good point. It is their official law, and (this isn't really directed at you, but your post made me think of it) really isn't necessarily an Islamic thing. We can see this by the fact that many Muslims don't care and other Islamic nations, past and present, haven't had such laws.

We need to look at the culture instead of always blaming religion. Because this sort of BS happens regardless of religion or not.

Looking at the culture is looking at religion in many cases. Too often people forget that just for the sake of being tolerant when in reality their statements are meaningless.

In this case we don't have opposing music cultures, food cultures or even two different ethnic groups. We have two different religions. Large numbers of the immediate muslim community are ready to oust the minority Christian community in that area.

edit: Forgot to add. When I first read about this story the women's rights groups in Pakistan and other human rights organizations, comprised of Muslims, were demanding action by the government to protect this girl and her community. Yet, the girl was, and I believe still is, held in jail along with her parents in protective custody because there is a large enough community, perhaps the majority, that may be willing to take violence against them. Which means what is going on is more complex than simply bashing Islam as a whole or uselessly pointing out that the Koran or hadiths don't support what's going on over there.

 

[Revoltingest]

I propose a neologism...."Islamophobiaophobia".
It means the irrational fear of the irrational fear of Islam.