the right religion

[Oryonder]

"How do you know for sure that the whole Bible is the word of God?

Faith in Christ comes from the "word of God"! Rom 10:17, "So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Yes, I get what you are saying! I am talking from the word of God and most doesn't believe it to be truth!

Im looking for an answer to the quesiton .. nothing in your first paragraph.

The "Word of God" is evidence of eternal life, for those that will believe and walk by the word of God. Paul was an apostle born out of due time, he said in Galatians 1:12, "For neither did I receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came to me through revelation of Jesus Christ." I never knew George Washington, except from history! But I believe he was President at one time, lol. So why would one not believe when they read "Christ is the only begotten Son of God

"

Nothing here either.

Jesus did signs in the presence of his disciples and this was written in the book of John 20:24-31, that people might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing they might have life through his name.

Nada

Thomas one of the twelve disciples called apostles said: "Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe." After Thomas did this he said: "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said: "Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed

Zero

Then there were people that didn't believe, who Jesus didn't even brother with, I guess because he knew their hearts. "And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief." Matthew 13:54-58; Mark 6:5-6.

And nothing here either.

"How do you not know that the whole written word of God is truth?

I can not tell you what I do not know, but I can tell you that the Bible is a book written by men. Various men at different periods of time.

If you were to attend a seminary with integrity such as the Missouri Synod (where the go for 8 years and learn Latin, Greek, and Hebrew) ..

They would teach you that things have been added and subtracted from the Bible over the years. There is much "interpolation".

Entire Gospels attributed to Paul were not written by Paul.

So .. If even religious leaders and scholars claim that parts of the Bible are not even written by the men the book is titled after, how the can the "whole Bible" be the word of God ?

Aside from this, there is no way to tell which parts were inspired and which were not.

Then we have the numerous places where the Bible tells the same story in contradictory ways.

Even if we were to take every word of the Bible as inspired . .we are still hooped.

Do we in salvation by faith alone as Paul preaches, or do we believe James when he devotes an entire chapter discouting this religious idea that was around in his time. In James 2 he states "Faith without works is Dead" no less than 3 times.

Do we believe the command of Jesus to "not Judge" "let ye without sin cast the first stone" or do we believe God in the OT when he commands us to kill those who do not abide by his rules or believe in him.

There is no consistent "word of God" in the Bible such one could claim to know what is on God's mind or what his "word" is

 

[InsurgoInsurgiInsurrect]

there r many religion in the world, but surly there r only one right religion, but how could we reach the right believe, the right path?

The right religion is found by first casting aside the idea that you already know the answer and instead exploring every aspect of life you can while never betraying what personally feel is right. Most of the time this will let you experience life to fullest and allow you to find the right path.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

there's that prophecy we've been waiting for...!!
oh right it wasn't biblical...but does it still count?

Scribble it in the margin; at some point, a scribe will probably add it in!

 

[Connie Sue]

Im looking for an answer to the quesiton .. nothing in your first paragraph.

"

Nothing here either.



Nada






Zero



And nothing here either.



I can not tell you what I do not know, but I can tell you that the Bible is a book written by men. Various men at different periods of time.

If you were to attend a seminary with integrity such as the Missouri Synod (where the go for 8 years and learn Latin, Greek, and Hebrew) ..

They would teach you that things have been added and subtracted from the Bible over the years. There is much "interpolation".

Entire Gospels attributed to Paul were not written by Paul.

So .. If even religious leaders and scholars claim that parts of the Bible are not even written by the men the book is titled after, how the can the "whole Bible" be the word of God ?

Aside from this, there is no way to tell which parts were inspired and which were not.

Then we have the numerous places where the Bible tells the same story in contradictory ways.

Even if we were to take every word of the Bible as inspired . .we are still hooped.

Do we in salvation by faith alone as Paul preaches, or do we believe James when he devotes an entire chapter discouting this religious idea that was around in his time. In James 2 he states "Faith without works is Dead" no less than 3 times.

Do we believe the command of Jesus to "not Judge" "let ye without sin cast the first stone" or do we believe God in the OT when he commands us to kill those who do not abide by his rules or believe in him.

There is no consistent "word of God" in the Bible such one could claim to know what is on God's mind or what his "word" is

It is odd that people will read history and forums and believe what they hear that men wrote about the bible. And will even believe books called bibles that are written by curtain religions to be the truth, that comply to their own belief.

But you won't believe the written word of God that was inspired by God himself, written by chosen men of his choice. He put in their minds what to teach and write with the Holy Ghost send down from heaven and gave gifts to men, so the word of God would not have error.

What I have read concerning history of the bible, many were killed trying to get the word of God translated in to English form. There was a curtain religion that did not want the bible to be translated in English form. No doubt Languages being different and written different. When put in English form other words had to be used to simply to English Language, but it had to mean the same! This notion that some books were left out, even if so, you have written what you need to know about salvation: "Men and brethren what shall we do?" "Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins." "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." "See here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?" "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience to ward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of Life."

 

[Connie Sue]

why are you skirting the question?

Explain! the "gospel according to judas" :sorry1: I don't know what you are referring to.

 

[Muffled]

believer "all men are blue"
non believer "how do you know all men are blue"
believer "because the bible says so"
non believer "have you actually seen all men"
believer "no"
non believer, "so what criteria makes you think the bible is right"
believer "the bible"

I can verify that not all men are blue from observation. The Bible doesn't mention skin color very often and certainly not as a dissertation on it.

No doubt that is circular reasoning. The reasoning should be that the Bible is right because God inspired it. No doubt knowledge of that inspiration is recorded in the Bible but that is not the proof that God ispired it (because that would be circular reasoning). It is the personal testimony of God that He inspired it that is the proof. However that proof is only available to someone with a relationship with God.

 

[Muffled]

Correct, it's called science.


By looking for the truth based on empirical evidence.

So does science say that sex outside of marriage is right or wrong?

My thinking is that science says that all the working parts are there for sex.

 

[Oryonder]

It is odd that people will read history and forums and believe what they hear that men wrote about the bible. And will even believe books called bibles that are written by curtain religions to be the truth, that comply to their own belief.

But you won't believe the written word of God that was inspired by God himself, written by chosen men of his choice. He put in their minds what to teach and write with the Holy Ghost send down from heaven and gave gifts to men, so the word of God would not have error.

What I have read concerning history of the bible, many were killed trying to get the word of God translated in to English form. There was a curtain religion that did not want the bible to be translated in English form. No doubt Languages being different and written different. When put in English form other words had to be used to simply to English Language, but it had to mean the same! This notion that some books were left out, even if so, you have written what you need to know about salvation: "Men and brethren what shall we do?" "Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins." "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved." ."

Many folks have been killed on behalf of many religions. Does this make them all true ? These days it seems more Muslims are willing to die for their religion than any other (other than the really crackpot cults). Perhaps you should join Islam ?!

There was a passion for forgery at the time the Bible was put together. This much we know.

What we also know is that many passages in the Bible reflect something other than was originally written.

Even in the modern Bibles there are obvious mistranslations .. and this is from the original greek that was mistranslated to begin with.

Further .. even if we were to accept the current translation as "the word of God" .. that word contradicts itself so we still are left wondering what the true word of God is.

Salvation - You have given a Pauline version of salvation (Salvation by faith alone)

I agree that this is what Pauline scripture says and John which is a fusion of Pauline scripture other stuff. Paul never knew Jesus and neither did the writer of John.

Unfortunately, the (salvation by faith alone) mantra is contradicted by James, brother of Jesus, and Jesus himself on numerous occasions in Matt.

Matt 5:13

Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men

.​

What does Jesus mean by the "good for nothing to be cast out" ?

Jesus explains a couple verses later in Matt 5:16

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify

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your Father which is in heaven

​

​

​

​

​

It is good works which glorifies the Father, but Jesus is not finished there.

If there were any doubt what he was talking about .. he clarifies specifically what is required to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matt 5:19..20
​

Think not that I am come to destroy the law For verily I say unto you,
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise
pass from the law.

​

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall
exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye
shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
​

​

​

​

​

Now fortunately for us .. the scribes and Pharasees were quite a rotten bunch so the bar is not that high.

Zero from the mouth of Jesus on salvation by faith of any kind, (and certainly not faith alone), and he is talking directly and at length about entrance into the kingdom of heaven.

Now apparently after the death of Jesus there were some that needed reminding of the words of Jesus. Folks like Paul can not be blamed because he never knew Jesus and his works do not show much knowledge of the life or saying of Jesus.

The Brother of Jesus speaks to what he thinks is the heresy of the doctrine of (salvation by faith alone) in James 2.


James 2:14
​

What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he
hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Can your faith save you ?
​

​

​

​

James 2:20​

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead

Absolutely not.

I agree that Paul sripture seems to believe in salvation by faith/faith alone, but Paul did not know Jesus.

Regardless of what Paul seems to think .. Jesus (in Matt)

In summary .. from the mouth of Jesus in Matt, and on many other occasions, stresses works with no mention of faith as the fare to enter heaven.

After the death of Jesus his brother James tries to clear up what he consideres blasphamy to the words of Jesus (salvation by faith alone).

3 times in James 2 he repeats "Faith without works is DEAD"
​

 

[Muffled]

Science can change its views when new or better evidence is found. Try changing the view of one pretty known religion and you'll be called a witch in no time.

But science uses a lot of methods to look for answers. A good example would be viewing the universe in electromagnetic spectrum below and beyond optical one. Or using microscopes to examine the micro part of the universe. There's nothing like that in religion, which is just fiction anyway. Love, morality, human worth and values have nothing to do with religion.

Science has to change because it doesn't have the truth. The right religion doesn't have to change because it has the truth.

That is like declaring that science is science fiction.

You must be reading fiction to reach that conclusion.

 

[waitasec]

Explain! the "gospel according to judas" :sorry1: I don't know what you are referring to.

i see...
these links may be of interest to you...

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-did-paul-consider-his-letters-scripture.html

and
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-dir/133775-every-scripture-inspired-god.html

 

[waitasec]

I can verify that not all men are blue from observation. The Bible doesn't mention skin color very often and certainly not as a dissertation on it.

No doubt that is circular reasoning. The reasoning should be that the Bible is right because God inspired it. No doubt knowledge of that inspiration is recorded in the Bible but that is not the proof that God ispired it (because that would be circular reasoning). It is the personal testimony of God that He inspired it that is the proof. However that proof is only available to someone with a relationship with God.

who says the bible is inspired by god, where did that idea come from?
duh...

 

[Connie Sue]

who says the bible is inspired by god, where did that idea come from?
duh...

Christ died for the sins of the whole world! An access is given through the word of God, but not everyone will...Ask, seek, or knock by looking into the word of God. It was first taught to the Jews then to the Gentile people!

Everyone should know from the least to the greatest:shout

 

[waitasec]

Christ died for the sins of the whole world! An access is given through the word of God,

says who?

 

[Connie Sue]

Many folks have been killed on behalf of many religions. Does this make them all true ? These days it seems more Muslims are willing to die for their religion than any other (other than the really crackpot cults). Perhaps you should join Islam ?!

There was a passion for forgery at the time the Bible was put together. This much we know.

What we also know is that many passages in the Bible reflect something other than was originally written.

Even in the modern Bibles there are obvious mistranslations .. and this is from the original greek that was mistranslated to begin with.

Further .. even if we were to accept the current translation as "the word of God" .. that word contradicts itself so we still are left wondering what the true word of God is.

Salvation - You have given a Pauline version of salvation (Salvation by faith alone)

I agree that this is what Pauline scripture says and John which is a fusion of Pauline scripture other stuff. Paul never knew Jesus and neither did the writer of John.

Unfortunately, the (salvation by faith alone) mantra is contradicted by James, brother of Jesus, and Jesus himself on numerous occasions in Matt.

Matt 5:13

.​

What does Jesus mean by the "good for nothing to be cast out" ?

Jesus explains a couple verses later in Matt 5:16

It is good works which glorifies the Father, but Jesus is not finished there.

If there were any doubt what he was talking about .. he clarifies specifically what is required to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matt 5:19..20
​

Now fortunately for us .. the scribes and Pharasees were quite a rotten bunch so the bar is not that high.

Zero from the mouth of Jesus on salvation by faith of any kind, (and certainly not faith alone), and he is talking directly and at length about entrance into the kingdom of heaven.

Now apparently after the death of Jesus there were some that needed reminding of the words of Jesus. Folks like Paul can not be blamed because he never knew Jesus and his works do not show much knowledge of the life or saying of Jesus.

The Brother of Jesus speaks to what he thinks is the heresy of the doctrine of (salvation by faith alone) in James 2.


James 2:14
​

Can your faith save you ?
​

James 2:20​

Absolutely not.

I agree that Paul sripture seems to believe in salvation by faith/faith alone, but Paul did not know Jesus.

Regardless of what Paul seems to think .. Jesus (in Matt)

In summary .. from the mouth of Jesus in Matt, and on many other occasions, stresses works with no mention of faith as the fare to enter heaven.

After the death of Jesus his brother James tries to clear up what he consideres blasphamy to the words of Jesus (salvation by faith alone).

3 times in James 2 he repeats "Faith without works is DEAD"
​

I don't join a religion!

What are you saying is a contradiction in the bible?

Paul is an apostle born out of due time, meaning he was not one of the chosen twelve to teach to the Remnant of Israel. Lets take one subject at a time. Which of these do you want to talk about first?

 

[Connie Sue]

says who?

The word of God, take a look in side!

 

[waitasec]

The word of God, take a look in side!

that doesn't say anything to me...
by what criteria do you determine the bible is the word of god?

the bible isn't a criteria, the bible is a claim.

can you provide empirical evidence for the claim?


yes or no

 

[1robin]

that doesn't say anything to me...
by what criteria do you determine the bible is the word of god?

the bible isn't a criteria, the bible is a claim.

can you provide empirical evidence for the claim?


yes or no

Despite the revulsion of the notion. I have to agree with you. Who said that? To claim the bible is true because it says it is, is circular reasoning and not proof. I do not feel the need to repost the dozens of ways I have already done so that are suffecient and valid to show the bible as a highly reliable text.

 

[Connie Sue]

that doesn't say anything to me...
by what criteria do you determine the bible is the word of god?

the bible isn't a criteria, the bible is a claim.

can you provide empirical evidence for the claim?


yes or no

My faith comes from the word of God that is proof for me! If you think there is a contradiction in the bible. Throw it out there and we will discuss the scriptures! I can't give you proof that the world is right in its teaching. It just doesn't make sense that one would believe the history of men over the history of the bible (The word of God). I can give you bible proof, with scriptures on any subject!

 

[Connie Sue]

that doesn't say anything to me...
by what criteria do you determine the bible is the word of god?

the bible isn't a criteria, the bible is a claim.

can you provide empirical evidence for the claim?


yes or no

That is the "worlds" view!! Faith comes by hearing the word of God! The only way you can have faith in God! You got a subject, got a bible, lets look inside and see what it has to say! :slap:

 

[waitasec]

My faith comes from the word of God that is proof for me! If you think there is a contradiction in the bible. Throw it out there and we will discuss the scriptures! I can't give you proof that the world is right in its teaching. It just doesn't make sense that one would believe the history of men over the history of the bible (The word of God). I can give you bible proof, with scriptures on any subject!

so your criteria is blind faith,
is that right?