Why can't I go to heaven?

[Breathe]

I suggest we go for it.

Then back to God we go.

Sounds good to me.

 

[look3467]

I suspect multiple scenarios....each to his own.
Consequence dealt BECAUSE of belief.

Still there does seem a prevailing scheme of things in spite of belief.

You are for the moment stuck in that parcel of flesh.
You seem to be in control as you say as you please...do as you please.
If your hand does anything at all...it's because you thought you should...
or felt like it.

But finally, the end when catch up to each one of us.
Then what?

Many will surrender their last breaths, but for lack of intention...lay there.
They will want to stand up...but can't.
They might be aware when friends and relatives put them in the box.
And the box into the ground.
Solitary confinement...in a box?
Eternal darkness is physically real.

This would indeed, destroy the mind and spirit.

There will be only one desire waiting for us when we die.
The desire to stand up.
I suggest we go for it

Then back to God we go.

Pretty much well said for one who has no hope.

Not so for one who does have hope in a belief.
A world of difference when it comes to the point of death.
Blessings, AJ

 

[HeatherAnn]

I was raised that you can't go to heaven (the celestial kingdom) if you don't pay 10% of your income to LDS/Mormon leaders nor would you be considered worthy to go to the LDS temple... "the house of the Lord."

Yet, I believe that God/the Lord is "no respector of persons."
God is love. -1John 4:8
Everyone - atheists, theists, agnostics - we all believe in & pursue love.
It's impossible for you to not believe in anything... even if you make harmful decisions, at the time, you believed them to be the best, otherwise you wouldn't make them.
Love is striving for what is best through trial & error.
Some theorize that the dark energy/matter that permeates the entire universe (including us) is made up of subatomic particles from the 10th dimension which are infinite possibilities of infinite possibilities... CHOICE how to love.
Love indeed makes the world go 'round!

Heaven is that which you like, a chosen state of happiness, uniquely subjective.
"You don't go to heaven, you grow to heaven."

 

[George-ananda]

"You don't go to heaven, you grow to heaven."

Thank you for that quote.

IMO, too many people are stuck in the old time religion concept of heaven and hell. An all or nothing eternity. IMO, God is smarter than that. We are now and will continue to be in a state of growth.

 

[HeatherAnn]

Thank you for that quote.

IMO, too many people are stuck in the old time religion concept of heaven and hell. An all or nothing eternity. IMO, God is smarter than that. We are now and will continue to be in a state of growth.

I agree!
And it is sad that so many are stuck in those old, limiting concepts.
I was stuck for most of my life & I realize that it hurt me & others.

 

[Road Warrior]

For the sake of argument, let's just say that god does in fact exist. Being an atheist, I would therefore be condemned to suffer an eternity of torment in hell......If he truly did love me, as the bible says he claims to do, then surely he would be able to overlook the transgression of a difference of opinion when I am an overall good person.

It boils down to what version of God, Hell and religious laws you abide by. I agree there is an incongruence between the idea of an all-merciful God and that same God condemning someone to an eternity of pain and misery. Therefore, I think the common perception of Hell is wrong. "Evil" is not a force by itself. It's like cold or darkness. Cold is simply a lack of heat. Darkness is a lack of light. "Evil" is simply a lack of "Good", or being away from God. If a person is in "Hell", then it is by choice. Simply put, they have chosen to be away from God. When they choose to come back into the "light", then they will be able to do so since God truly is all-merciful.

 

[Wiets]

The problem is that religion is always evolusionising.
Them hard core requirements to be saved are softening all the time.

In early religions, peoples' hearts needed to be ripped out of their bodies and were sacrificed to the gods in order to obtain the gods' goodwill and protection.

According to christianity, initially (in the old testament) only Jews could be save because they were the chosen people.
Then people had to adhere to a lot of rules which regulated even what poeple could eat and what is not pure.
Then jesus died for all people's sin and since the only requirement to go to heaven and not to burn in hell for ever, is that you must accept Jesus as your saviour.

Islam is still a bit more stricter.
They have a lot more rules to which people must adhere to - and they are stricter in their inforcement of these rules.

Islam leaves the door open for the people of the faith (jews, christians) unless they are infedels)

But if you are an atheist, sorry my friend, you will burn in hell forever.

 

[George-ananda]

But if you are an atheist, sorry my friend, you will burn in hell forever.

Well, I think that is not true.

You said that religion is evolving but your statement implies the old school opinion that there is an all or nothing hell or heaven that lasts for eternity. I think you'll find fewer and fewer people hold that view.

Might I suggest at least acquanting yourself with some of the ideas of eastern religions and of newer age western thinkers who actually have spoken in the last two thousand years and are still speaking.

I think some atheist/agnostic people like to continue the old school debate because it makes theism an easier target for attack.

 

[Road Warrior]

But if you are an atheist, sorry my friend, you will burn in hell forever.

Only by choice.

It boils down to what version of God, Hell and religious laws you abide by. I agree there is an incongruence between the idea of an all-merciful God and that same God condemning someone to an eternity of pain and misery. Therefore, I think the common perception of Hell is wrong. "Evil" is not a force by itself. It's like cold or darkness. Cold is simply a lack of heat. Darkness is a lack of light. "Evil" is simply a lack of "Good", or being away from God. If a person is in "Hell", then it is by choice. Simply put, they have chosen to be away from God. When they choose to come back into the "light", then they will be able to do so since God truly is all-merciful.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

According to christianity, initially (in the old testament) only Jews could be save because they were the chosen people.
Then people had to adhere to a lot of rules which regulated even what poeple could eat and what is not pure.
Then jesus died for all people's sin and since the only requirement to go to heaven and not to burn in hell for ever, is that you must accept Jesus as your saviour.
But if you are an atheist, sorry my friend, you will burn in hell forever.

Because of God's promise to Abraham only the Jews were chosen to produce the promised Messiah [Savior].

Where did you get your 'burn in hell forever' teaching?

You did Not find that taught in Scripture because the Bible's hell [sheol] is temporary, and everyone 'jailed' in hell is released from hell because Jesus has the keys to unlock hell [ Rev. 1 v 18 ]
Once everyone in hell is 'delivered up' meaning resurrected out of hell, then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic 'second death' according to Revelation 20 vs 13, 14.

The 'burn in hell forever' is a non-biblical teaching that became mixed with Scripture after first-century Christianity ended.
That does not make Scripture wrong, but makes the mixing or blending of pagan concepts with Scripture as being wrong.

What was Jesus doing while Jesus was in hell?
-Acts 2 vs 27,31; Psalm 16 v 10
Jesus taught the dead are in a sleep-like inactive state.- John 11 vs 11-14
The Psalms also teach the dead sleep in a thoughtless death.
-Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4
King Solomon [known for his God-given wisdom -1st Kings 3 vs 16-28]
wrote at Ecclesiastes [9 v 5] that the dead know nothing.
If the dead were conscious there would be no need for a resurrection.

 

[Thief]

Because of God's promise to Abraham only the Jews were chosen to produce the promised Messiah [Savior].

Where did you get your 'burn in hell forever' teaching?

You did Not find that taught in Scripture because the Bible's hell [sheol] is temporary, and everyone 'jailed' in hell is released from hell because Jesus has the keys to unlock hell [ Rev. 1 v 18 ]
Once everyone in hell is 'delivered up' meaning resurrected out of hell, then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic 'second death' according to Revelation 20 vs 13, 14.

The 'burn in hell forever' is a non-biblical teaching that became mixed with Scripture after first-century Christianity ended.
That does not make Scripture wrong, but makes the mixing or blending of pagan concepts with Scripture as being wrong.

What was Jesus doing while Jesus was in hell?
-Acts 2 vs 27,31; Psalm 16 v 10
Jesus taught the dead are in a sleep-like inactive state.- John 11 vs 11-14
The Psalms also teach the dead sleep in a thoughtless death.
-Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4
King Solomon [known for his God-given wisdom -1st Kings 3 vs 16-28]
wrote at Ecclesiastes [9 v 5] that the dead know nothing.
If the dead were conscious there would be no need for a resurrection.

Is it also then....dead men do not dream?
What if your dreams are unpleasant and you can't wake up?

Conscious thought doesn't mean you're interacting with anything around you.
You could very well 'burn' in your 'hell' (grave) .

But I don't believe in physical resurrection.
God is spirit....the sons of God, likewise...
The kingdom is not of this world.

Return to this world?...not likely.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Is it also then....dead men do not dream?
What if your dreams are unpleasant and you can't wake up?
Conscious thought doesn't mean you're interacting with anything around you.
You could very well 'burn' in your 'hell' (grave) .
But I don't believe in physical resurrection.
God is spirit....the sons of God, likewise...
The kingdom is not of this world.
Return to this world?...not likely.

How could one burn in the Bible's hell [sheol] when the dead know nothing?
Know nothing, and the dead do Not praise God according to Psalm 115 v 17;
6 v 5; 13 v 3; 146 v 4; Ecclesiastes 9 v 5; Daniel 12 vs 2,13

You are not alone in doubting a physical resurrection.
You are right about God's kingdom being not of this world [It's heavenly]
All angels are called sons of God and are a spirit creation.
If Adam had never sinned where would Adam be today?
Adam and us are physical creations. [flesh and blood]
Jesus made a new covenant [Luke 22 vs 29,30] with a 'little flock' [12 v 32]
As 'little' suggests a smaller amount of people. People that would be part of the first or earlier resurrection of Revelation [20 v 6; 14 v 4; 5 vs 9,10]
They have two [2] jobs to do. Serve as heavenly kings and priests.
Serve 'earthly subjects' of God's kingdom.
What does Psalm 72 v 8 says about earthly subjects ?__________

So, besides a permanent heavenly hope for those resurrected to heaven
[1st Cor. 15 v 50] who are adopted as spiritual 'sons of God' aka Jesus 'brothers' there is also a larger earthly-flock part or 'other sheep' part
[John 10 v 16] besides the little flock, but all under one Shepherd Christ Jesus.
The 'sheep' of Matthew 25 v 32 are Not Jesus spiritual 'brothers' of verse 40.
Those faithful sheep remain on earth [everlasting life] right into the start of Jesus messianic 1000-year reign over earth. Whereas Jesus 'brothers' are the 'brothers' of 1st Cor. 15 v 50 who inherit the heavenly realm of God's kingdom for a thousand years with Christ Jesus.

Jesus taught that No one had ascended to heaven at John 3 v 13.
That includes king David according to Acts 2 v 34.
The way to heaven, or heavenly life, was not open to people before Jesus died. All or everyone who lived before Jesus died, had Not a promised heavenly hope, but a promised earthly hope.
Such as Noah and Abraham who died without having yet received God's promise according to Hebrews 11 vs 13,39

We are not talking about returning to this world of badness, but a righteous new world under God's messianic kingdom ruled from heaven by Christ Jesus.
[2nd Peter 3 v 13]
What did Micah write about that future millennial time at Micah 4 vs 3,4 ?
What did Isaiah prophecy about earth at Isaiah chapter 35 ?____________
Job [33 vs 25-28] mentions being released from the aging process.
One's 'flesh' would become fresher than it was in youth.
Remember 'flesh and blood' can Not inherit the kingdom of the heavens.
So, the 'flesh' of Job [33v 25] is earthly/ physical.

So, the Bible writers not only write word pictures about those resurrected to heavenly life, but they also wrote vivid word pictures describing future earthly life under Christ's millennial-long day of reigning from heaven over earth,
or earthly subjects of God's kingdom. 'Thy kingdom come....God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven'. Isn't God's will for heaven good conditions?
Who goes to heaven to die in heaven? So, if God's will is to be done here [earth] as it is in heaven, then we are praying that the time will come when there will be on earth 'No more death'.- Rev. 21 vs 3,4

 

[bn40]

I think it is more honest to live sincerely and to the best of your ability serving others and being an example through your own actions. In terms of religion I hold more favor to a religious person who continues to question their beliefs and try to progress spiritually rather than someone who blindly accepts and / or is religious "for show".

Coming from a Christian background with my own interpretation of theology, I don't hold much thought to after death. In terms of the concept of heaven and hell I see them as a state of existence in this life first, whether emotional in terms of depression, anger etc or physical in unjust actions, greed and so on.

 

[Thief]

How could one burn in the Bible's hell [sheol] when the dead know nothing?
Know nothing, and the dead do Not praise God according to Psalm 115 v 17;
6 v 5; 13 v 3; 146 v 4; Ecclesiastes 9 v 5; Daniel 12 vs 2,13

You are not alone in doubting a physical resurrection.
You are right about God's kingdom being not of this world [It's heavenly]
All angels are called sons of God and are a spirit creation.
If Adam had never sinned where would Adam be today?
Adam and us are physical creations. [flesh and blood]
Jesus made a new covenant [Luke 22 vs 29,30] with a 'little flock' [12 v 32]
As 'little' suggests a smaller amount of people. People that would be part of the first or earlier resurrection of Revelation [20 v 6; 14 v 4; 5 vs 9,10]
They have two [2] jobs to do. Serve as heavenly kings and priests.
Serve 'earthly subjects' of God's kingdom.
What does Psalm 72 v 8 says about earthly subjects ?__________

So, besides a permanent heavenly hope for those resurrected to heaven
[1st Cor. 15 v 50] who are adopted as spiritual 'sons of God' aka Jesus 'brothers' there is also a larger earthly-flock part or 'other sheep' part
[John 10 v 16] besides the little flock, but all under one Shepherd Christ Jesus.
The 'sheep' of Matthew 25 v 32 are Not Jesus spiritual 'brothers' of verse 40.
Those faithful sheep remain on earth [everlasting life] right into the start of Jesus messianic 1000-year reign over earth. Whereas Jesus 'brothers' are the 'brothers' of 1st Cor. 15 v 50 who inherit the heavenly realm of God's kingdom for a thousand years with Christ Jesus.

Jesus taught that No one had ascended to heaven at John 3 v 13.
That includes king David according to Acts 2 v 34.
The way to heaven, or heavenly life, was not open to people before Jesus died. All or everyone who lived before Jesus died, had Not a promised heavenly hope, but a promised earthly hope.
Such as Noah and Abraham who died without having yet received God's promise according to Hebrews 11 vs 13,39

We are not talking about returning to this world of badness, but a righteous new world under God's messianic kingdom ruled from heaven by Christ Jesus.
[2nd Peter 3 v 13]
What did Micah write about that future millennial time at Micah 4 vs 3,4 ?
What did Isaiah prophecy about earth at Isaiah chapter 35 ?____________
Job [33 vs 25-28] mentions being released from the aging process.
One's 'flesh' would become fresher than it was in youth.
Remember 'flesh and blood' can Not inherit the kingdom of the heavens.
So, the 'flesh' of Job [33v 25] is earthly/ physical.

So, the Bible writers not only write word pictures about those resurrected to heavenly life, but they also wrote vivid word pictures describing future earthly life under Christ's millennial-long day of reigning from heaven over earth,
or earthly subjects of God's kingdom. 'Thy kingdom come....God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven'. Isn't God's will for heaven good conditions?
Who goes to heaven to die in heaven? So, if God's will is to be done here [earth] as it is in heaven, then we are praying that the time will come when there will be on earth 'No more death'.- Rev. 21 vs 3,4

'Dead men know nothing'...is a statement of ignorance.
Similar to...'Let the dead bury the dead'.

Sounds contrary at first....no difference between the breathing and the not breathing.

Neither statement indicates your awareness fails.

You can be aware...and dumber than a pile of dirt in a box.

 

[Muffled]

Why anyone would worship an immoral monster like that, is beyond me. It's even sadder that that this immoral behaviour is lotted as just and good, when it's the complete opposite.

So if you think bad is good and good is bad, that you can escape judgement. Think again.

 

[Muffled]

and how do we know that the devil isn't the being who inspired the bible? Or that God is using his power to deceive us and actually the devil is the more moral? Maybe the devils 'deceiving' is actually him trying to save us from God's deceiving.

The devil doesn't work against himself and there is no question that the Bible opposes the devil.

Again the proof is in the pudding. I know by what each one does.

Frankly I believe in life, so I am going with the one that gives me life.

 

[Muffled]

Then why would you tell me your opinion, if the world would never work like you believe either?

We at least have a chance of being right.

Seen by whom? Punishable by whom? Not by the God I believe, certainly.

Insulting is not preferable, but I believe it's unavoidable when angry. No reasonable father would eternally punish their children for momentary angers. Anger is part of human nature. We're not perfect and God knows.

Yes, I agree with that. God is the ultimate judge. But it is my hope and belief that God is merciful and loving, instead of a punisher.

I don't go by what I think but I go by what God says.

The odds are that you can't be wrong all the time but how would you know when you were wrong?

You either have the wrong God or a misunderstanding of Him.

This is where you have a misunderstanding. A saved person will have done many such things and worse and find eternal life but an unsaved person hardly has to do anything at all to face punishment in Hell. It is reasonable because God has freely offered salvation to everyone.

He is merciful and loving and a punisher and a hope fulfiller.

 

[A Troubled Man]

You either have the wrong God or a misunderstanding of Him.

He is merciful and loving and a punisher and a hope fulfiller.

Oh no, you have shown that we do indeed have an understanding of most gods, including yours.

Gods who punish to the extent that your god meets out his vengeance for the reasons provided is not merciful or loving by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Muffled]

My 2 cents late in the game. I believe in God and Life After Death and believe you will be fine (better than most probably).

You're concerning yourself too much with the conservative Christian dogma which doesn't stand up to intelligent reasoning.

However you are not God and not his judge so you have no right to say that he will be fine.

That is too general a statement to be taken seriously. I am sure there are many erroneous theologial dogmas throughout all religions but then there are some that are correct.

 

[A Troubled Man]

However you are not God and not his judge so you have no right to say that he will be fine.

WOW! You speak for your god while judging others here and then have the nerve to say that? :bonk: