Are you proud to have The Bible as your holy book?

[George-ananda]

Poor God? Should have made a world where people couldn't inaccurately describe his being.

Explain how he could do that and still allow free-will. Also most of the inaccuracies are by well-meaning imperfect people. How could he prevent that without making everyone perfect with no need for growth?

Yeah, all of those scathing clueless people attacking god for not revealing himself, allowing hundreds to pretend to do so. Then they have the audacity to whine about the giant barrier god between human understanding/logic/physical existence and the true nature of the world (where I guess he resides). If you aren't making stuff up about god then you will just fail to understand him forever. Poor God. That's my sarcasm. I hope my point is easily discernable!

Yes, your point is easily discernable. You're making the point that why doesn't god give all of humanity one perfect operations manual. Would that work for all cultures and time-periods? If god comes in the flesh. we say that's just a human. If aspects of god speak thru saints, gurus, teachers we say they're quacks with no basis to speak.

I think God wants us to use our intelligence and discernment and for those not married to cynicism there is plenty to investigate such as buddhism, hinduism and liberal Christian thinkers.

 

[ChristineES]

The Bible books are not about God, they are mostly about the men and women who followed God. Being as they are human, they are not perfect. The Old Testament is mostly the history of one group of believers- who became a kingdom and started out as a family- starting with Abraham. Some of the stories are pretty straight forward and you're right, there are some repetitive things in there- such as 1 Chronicles and 2 Chronicles. As stated much in the past, some of the books and stories are symbolic. Some of the books are poetry. What it is not is a rule book. It can be used as a guidebook, which is how I use it.

 

[Nakosis]

Do you think it's a good book? Does it represent your faith accurately?

Finally forced myself to read it cover to cover, all 1,750 pgs of my KJV ebook, and it would be an understatement to say I'm not impressed. Probably 90% of it is either repetitive (practically word for word) or trivial (geneologies, measurements...)

I wonder how many times the Old Testament states that following the law will lead to you spreading your seed gloriously, and disobeying the law will lead to death by "the sword, pestilence, or famine," or in the New Testament that faith leads to eternal life and lack of faith leads to destruction. If you removed all repitition of those statements you'd probably cut the length of the bible in half.

There are some interesting stories and some pearls of wisdom, but most of the book is petty, is it not?

I see the Bible being used as a symbol of power. A symbol of divine authority. Doesn't really matter so much what it says. Whatever it had happen to have said, people find a way to justify it since it's been accepted as God's Word.

I'm not saying the stories are all bad, just they could have been anything. It's its perception of power that give it value. It's a random collection of writings which has been given God's authority. Take a collection of writings that seem prophetic and authoritative, tell generation upon generation it is God's Word. People will find a way to justify what is written in it.

There's no reason to think it has any authority beyond the people who wrote the words. That's who you are trusting, people you don't know and have no good reason to trust.

They may have been good people, great people but still, what do you really know about them?

 

[Levite]

So the excruciating details of the tabernacle construction and arrangement -- the length in cubits, the type, weight, and price of the materials -- are metaphors for the flow of divine energy? You don't think that's a bit of a stretch? Reminds me of how audiences and readers of today interpret meanings for books and movies that the writers never intended.

We believe that the original intent of Torah was to be infinitely interpretable. That is what makes Torah a living process, rather than a static document.

In any case, I gave you an example of a different level of meaning, and you dismissed it. So what it sounds like is simply that you have decided not to like the Bible, and not to take seriously any further scholarship or commentary on it.

Which is perfectly fine, since you are under no obligation to read or accept the Tanakh in any way. It's Jewish text, and was never meant for non-Jews.

As for the Christian Bible that usually gets appended to the Tanakh, since (I assume) you live in a free country, you are also under no obligation to read or accept that, either.

So I suppose I am confused about what the purpose is of starting a thread to bash the Bible. Why does it matter to you if other people find value in it? If you don't like it, why not just not read it? And since I assume you are also an atheist, if you don't like religion, just don't practice it. Why go to the effort of bashing other people's faith?

 

[CarlinKnew]

I'm curious, over what time span did you read it? Was it a cursorial reading over a short time period, or a long term/in depth study?

Took a little over a month. I just read it like any other book.

 

[CarlinKnew]

When reading your conclusion I have two doubts. One that you actually read all of the Bible, and the other that you read the Bible at all. The only other conclusion I have is that you came with such a negative mindset when reading the text that your mind was set from the beginning, whether you read one of the Biblical books, one chapter, or one verse.

Really, what led you to those conclusions?

There is much that I admire about the Bible: The prophetic writings, the prose, the poetry, the ideology. Even though I'm technically an atheist for lacking a belief in the supernatural, there is much that I personally draw from the Bible and I will go as far as calling it a sacred text.

Interesting

Furthermore, reading the Bible without proper textual interpretation or guidance is like not reading the Bible at all.

So it's a waste of time to read the Bible without someone holding your hand? Does that mean the Bible on its own, as read by the layman, is worthless?

 

[Quagmire]

Really, what led you to those conclusions?

Interesting

So it's a waste of time to read the Bible without someone holding your hand? Does that mean the Bible on its own, as read by the layman, is worthless?

Depends on the layman, and what his agenda is.

 

[CarlinKnew]

Most of humanity is petty, is it not?

Sure, but great books are anything but petty. That's why I'd expect more from such a revered book.

 

[Quagmire]

Sure, but great books are anything but petty. That's why I'd expect more from such a revered book.

Id' be willing to bet you get exactly what you were expecting out of it.

 

[CarlinKnew]

Depends on the layman, and what his agenda is.

Okay, this layman is an ordinary person whose agenda is to read the book and see what it's all about.

 

[CarlinKnew]

Id' be willing to bet you get exactly what you were expecting out of it.

I guess you'd lose your bet then.

 

[CarlinKnew]

The Bible books are not about God, they are mostly about the men and women who followed God. Being as they are human, they are not perfect. The Old Testament is mostly the history of one group of believers- who became a kingdom and started out as a family- starting with Abraham. Some of the stories are pretty straight forward and you're right, there are some repetitive things in there- such as 1 Chronicles and 2 Chronicles. As stated much in the past, some of the books and stories are symbolic. Some of the books are poetry. What it is not is a rule book. It can be used as a guidebook, which is how I use it.

Would you agree that the parts that you could use as a guidebook are very few compared to the length of the book? And those parts that you could use are often the same few basic messages repeated often verbatim?

 

[Quagmire]

Okay, this layman is an ordinary person whose agenda is to read the book and see what it's all about.

I wasn't going to ask.

I guess you'd lose your bet then.

Doubt it.

 

[Caladan]

Really, what led you to those conclusions?

I have serious doubts about the literary appreciation of people who miss the qualities of the prophetic writings, or Biblical books such as Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Psalms, or Proverbs.
I see the Bible in Shakespeare, William Blake, da Vinci, Michelangelo, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, and Nick Cave.

So it's a waste of time to read the Bible without someone holding your hand? Does that mean the Bible on its own, as read by the layman, is worthless?

I'm not talking about emotional support, I am talking about a proper teacher who specializes in the Hebrew scriptures. Reading the Hebrew Bible ('Old Testament') as a 'layman' is like not reading it at all, studying and reading the interpretation is part of the process.
I studied the Bible in Classical Hebrew for 12 years in school, and took classes about the scriptures in the university. Reading the Bible as a 'layman' will not accomplish much, unless one takes comfort in activities such as a daily reading of Psalms.

 

[sojourner]

Sure, but great books are anything but petty. That's why I'd expect more from such a revered book.

Do you expect more from humanity?

 

[A Troubled Man]

There are some interesting stories and some pearls of wisdom, but most of the book is petty, is it not?

It's some nice poetry and an interesting read in a linguistically medieval sort of way. And yes, it does contain a pearl of wisdom or two, but nothing so dramatic that we all can't figure out for ourselves.

 

[CarlinKnew]

In any case, I gave you an example of a different level of meaning, and you dismissed it.

You don't think that example was a bit of a stretch? Do you really think that was the intended meaning?

So what it sounds like is simply that you have decided not to like the Bible, and not to take seriously any further scholarship or commentary on it.

Actually I am interested in, for example, how someone could possibly interpret the part we were discussing to be a metaphor for the divine flow of energy.

So I suppose I am confused about what the purpose is of starting a thread to bash the Bible. Why does it matter to you if other people find value in it? If you don't like it, why not just not read it? And since I assume you are also an atheist, if you don't like religion, just don't practice it. Why go to the effort of bashing other people's faith?

I have a genuine interest in other people's faith. I'm wondering what portion have read the Bible in its entirety and how they feel about it as a book, and why they feel that way.

 

[CarlinKnew]

I wasn't going to ask.



Doubt it.

Cool.

 

[CarlinKnew]

I have serious doubts about the literary appreciation of people who miss the qualities of the prophetic writings, or Biblical books such as Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Psalms, or Proverbs.
I see the Bible in Shakespeare, William Blake, da Vinci, Michelangelo, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, and Nick Cave.

Ecclesiastes was probably my favorite book. Like I said parts were interesting but they were few and far between.

I'm not talking about emotional support, I am talking about a proper teacher who specializes in the Hebrew scriptures. Reading the Hebrew Bible ('Old Testament') as a 'layman' is like not reading it at all, studying and reading the interpretation is part of the process.
I studied the Bible in Classical Hebrew for 12 years in school, and took classes about the scriptures in the university. Reading the Bible as a 'layman' will not accomplish much, unless one takes comfort in activities such as a daily reading of Psalms.

So in order to get anything from reading the Bible you need to study someone else's interpretation of it. Would like to hear some more believers' thoughts on this.

 

[CarlinKnew]

Do you expect more from humanity?

So you're asking if I think humans are capable of writing books that aren't petty? ... Yes.