a question avoided to explain by Jews and Christains

[Tarheeler]

are you referring to Matthew 21:43 perhaps?

Therefore, I tell you, the kingdom of God is taken from your account should be given to the impact of the state.​

hmm, I think there might be an "and" missing between "account" and "should" -- but with that it makes sense to me? I'm not sure what your question is

I was talking about your translation party. The first time I read it it started saying the United States after 15 or so translations.

But I don't see it now.

Oh well.

 

[not nom]

yeah, certain intermediate translations are preferred by some scholars, such as:

We have, I will cause envy stupid people a lot of anger in them: It seems to me is their anger and vanity, so I would not do it, I have my God The city is not no please do not envy people that can not move without been moved to avoid. The morning.​

but don't ask me how that works, or how "the morning" gets in there for that matter

 

[Godobeyer]

Now thats going to be fun.

opcorn:

you consider it's fun , i consider it religion scandale or challenge , because the people here waiting , and they want to know the truth , but you won't give them ?
you just make unuseful comment to waste our time and avoid to be serious

 

[Godobeyer]

Do you think that ridiculing other posters will result in any meaningful debate? This thread could have been much better had you handled it in a calmer, more organized manner.

As a fellow Muslim, I'd like to say that the way you are handling this thread is very much promising to hit a dead end.

Please, brother, try not to make fun of others or partake in any ridiculing that might occur in this debate.

I hope you view my advice in a well-intended light, rather than taking it as arrogance on my part.

thanks brother for this comment , I don't make fun , i am serieos , they make fun to avoid to be embressing , because if they answsered me seriously ,the people here will shocked about the truth , and i am sure that many people will change their view if they be serieos with us.

 

[Godobeyer]

Translation Party

If you can not have it you is not lucky that you are trying to move to the disappointment which the number of days, I'm it, people have some, I doubt the city of God: I am around my stupid, I could not do a lot of people. Vanity and anger, angry that it is envy. The morning.​

"It is doubtful that this phrase will ever reach equilibrium."

thanks not nom for this post , but acuatly we need the original one , I pleased the jews to post here the original one , to let the people translate it word by word (and source of course ) but they avoid to post it !!!!!!!!!
how you explain that ?

 

[not nom]

thanks not nom for this post , but acuatly we need the original one , I pleased the jews to post here the original one , to let the people translate it word by word (and source of course ) but they avoid to post it !!!!!!!!!
how you explain that ?

I don't see what the big deal is. how often has israel been under the rule of others? often, no? let's not even get into other hardships. I'd say it's been fulfillfed plenty, and that bit in deutoronomy seems to be a common theme, too -- the blessings and the curses, and the choice -- so I'm not sure what you expect from a super detailed translation?

or how you expect to get it by being so demanding about it. you're asking people to post and translate the hebrew original word for word, right? why not ask nicely, instead of asking "why are people denying this?!?!" basically? that seems a bit pushy, even just to hear how other people interpret it.

I also don't get what your point is with matthew -- what do you think are the fruits of the kingdom of god, and where can it be found?

 

[Godobeyer]

I don't see what the big deal is. how often has israel been under the rule of others? often, no? let's not even get into other hardships. I'd say it's been fulfillfed plenty, and that bit in deutoronomy seems to be a common theme, too -- the blessings and the curses, and the choice -- so I'm not sure what you expect from a super detailed translation?

or how you expect to get it by being so demanding about it. you're asking people to post and translate the hebrew original word for word, right? why not ask nicely, instead of asking "why are people denying this?!?!" basically? that seems a bit pushy, even just to hear how other people interpret it.

I also don't get what your point is with matthew -- what do you think are the fruits of the kingdom of god, and where can it be found?

the jews whom posted here claims that the original hebrew meaning is not like english one ....that why i ask them to post the hebrew one, then we could translate it individaul by google translator

Jesus pbuh is jewish prophet sent to jews people , if the bible declare that the kingdom of god will removed from you " the jews " that's mean evidencely it's will given to other nation

did you get the meaning of the verse ?

 

[not nom]

ah okay.

Jesus pbuh is jewish prophet sent to jews people , if the bible declare that the kingdom of god will removed from you " the jews " that's mean evidencely it's will given to other nation

did you get the meaning of the verse ?

well, do you know what jesus said about the kingdom of god? doesn't sound like something a "nation" would get anyway? IMHO, it's not like a nice cake that gets passed around, it's supposed to be a light to all the world, if anything. nations are so last millenium.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

To requote from post #10: "It is impossible to identify the enemy described in Deuteronomy with certainty, but unless its characterization as barbarian is purely rhetorical, it is likely to be a nomadic or semi nomadic invader such as the Midianites, Amalekites, or Kedemites (Judges 6:2-6)."

It is interesting that this was rejected out of hand.

 

[Levite]

the verse in english one is very clear .
I know the translation mean not like the original one , that the fault which make sense changed

lets make the situation clear .
I ask you please , to post the orginal hebrew one , then we will translate it by google " word word "

hebrew letters ok ? and show us your source in the internet ok ?

הם קנאוני בלא־אל כעסוני בהבליהם ואני אקניאם בלא־עם בגוי נבל אכעיסם

You understand that translating anything word by word through an internet translator is not likely to produce anything intelligible, let alone accurate, though, right?

And you understand that this verse is from one of the most stylized poetic sections of the entire Torah, making it even more difficult to parse than most verses, which are hard enough as it is...right?

And of course you understand, I am sure, that a verse out of context cannot be translated with any accuracy-- context is always, always necesary.

So presumably, you might wish to consider the fact that if numerous scholars of the tradition that created a text, reading the text in its original language and with full context, all understand a verse in a way other than what it appears to say to you in a translation, there might be a legitimate basis for reading the verse differently than how it appears to you.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So presumably, you might wish to consider the fact that if numerous scholars of the tradition that created a text, reading the text in its original language and with full context, all understand a verse in a way other than what it appears to say to you in a translation, there might be a legitimate basis for reading the verse differently than how it appears to you.

Or he will dismiss it as a vast conspiracy on the part of Jews in denial.

 

[Debater Slayer]

thanks brother for this comment , I don't make fun , i am serieos , they make fun to avoid to be embressing , because if they answsered me seriously ,the people here will shocked about the truth , and i am sure that many people will change their view if they be serieos with us.

I think I've seen quite a bit of threads where they answered seriously, and were willing to engage into debate.

How do you think the people here will be "shocked"? You know that there have been hundreds, if not thousands of threads here containing scriptural scrutiny, countless verses, videos, and even scientific lectures? This isn't the first time scripture has been subjected to criticism and it won't be the last either.

 

[Godobeyer]

הם קנאוני בלא־אל כעסוני בהבליהם ואני אקניאם בלא־עם בגוי נבל אכעיסם

You understand that translating anything word by word through an internet translator is not likely to produce anything intelligible, let alone accurate, though, right?

And you understand that this verse is from one of the most stylized poetic sections of the entire Torah, making it even more difficult to parse than most verses, which are hard enough as it is...right?

And of course you understand, I am sure, that a verse out of context cannot be translated with any accuracy-- context is always, always necesary.

So presumably, you might wish to consider the fact that if numerous scholars of the tradition that created a text, reading the text in its original language and with full context, all understand a verse in a way other than what it appears to say to you in a translation, there might be a legitimate basis for reading the verse differently than how it appears to you.

thank you MR Levite for the hebrew verse, i appreciate that so much , i looked at Google translation could not translate full , it's translate some of the words, it maybe it's font problem unknown for google, but found this link of site translate it word by word

it's close to the english translation .
Deuteronomy 32:21 Hebrew Texts and Analysis

is there another meaning ?

 

[Godobeyer]

Debater Slayer ,
they claim that there is different in the meaning (english bible and hebrew bible) but it's appears that there is not different at all .
maybe you are right they will not shocked , because they already knows the truth .

 

[Debater Slayer]

Debater Slayer ,
they claim that there is different in the meaning (english bible and hebrew bible) but it's appears that there is not different at all .
maybe you are right they will not shocked , because they already knows the truth .

Some people translate verses of the Qur'an and take them out of context/butcher the meaning, do you have any doubt that it might happen when translating any religious text from its original language?

 

[Godobeyer]

Some people translate verses of the Qur'an and take them out of context/butcher the meaning, do you have any doubt that it might happen when translating any religious text from its original language?

the original language meaning not like translate meaning,but it's suppose to be there is a expliniation as we have in Quran "TAFSIR"
for this am waiting from our jews friends the correct ,explianation of this verse .

 

[Levite]

thank you MR Levite for the hebrew verse, i appreciate that so much , i looked at Google translation could not translate full , it's translate some of the words, it maybe it's font problem unknown for google, but found this link of site translate it word by word

it's close to the english translation .
Deuteronomy 32:21 Hebrew Texts and Analysis

is there another meaning ?

Part of the reason, among the other things I mentioned, that your Google translator could not translate the verse is that most online translators that even feature Hebrew use Modern Hebrew, which is rather different than Biblical Hebrew. I seem to recall some of my Muslim friends mentioning that the Arabic of the Quran is a bit different than that casually spoken in Arab countries today, so the concept should be familiar to you.

I'm afraid the translation you found, which seems to come from a Christian site, has a very poor translation. They don't recognize common roots, grammatical conjugations or affixes, and their translation is so overly literal that they don't take any idiomatic usage into account.

If I have time later, maybe I'll check and see how some of the better Jewish translators have rendered the verse. But I doubt any rendering is likely to support the meaning you suggest, since that meaning is theologically antithetical to Judaism.

 

[Godobeyer]

Part of the reason, among the other things I mentioned, that your Google translator could not translate the verse is that most online translators that even feature Hebrew use Modern Hebrew, which is rather different than Biblical Hebrew. I seem to recall some of my Muslim friends mentioning that the Arabic of the Quran is a bit different than that casually spoken in Arab countries today, so the concept should be familiar to you.

I'm afraid the translation you found, which seems to come from a Christian site, has a very poor translation. They don't recognize common roots, grammatical conjugations or affixes, and their translation is so overly literal that they don't take any idiomatic usage into account.

If I have time later, maybe I'll check and see how some of the better Jewish translators have rendered the verse. But I doubt any rendering is likely to support the meaning you suggest, since that meaning is theologically antithetical to Judaism.

acuatly slangs arabic languages ,we have pure arabic and old pure arabic (which need arabic/arabic dictionnary to understand it) because some words are stopped used for long time, the old pure arabic which writing with Quran , the slangs arabic langueges which used to talk , every region (not only country ) had their slang arabic language .

maybe because the hebrew is revival langage you face this problem .
Revival of the Hebrew language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Straw Dog]

I want to the christains explain to me this plz .


I want you to explain to me this citation in this verse "Deuteronomy 32:21" "I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation "

Deuteronomy 32:21 " They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people;I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation."

and I want from the christians to explain to me this verse

Matthew 21:43 "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

The answer from all sides differs in all ways except one, "My metaphors are better than yours!"

 

[Muffled]

the jews whom posted here claims that the original hebrew meaning is not like english one ....that why i ask them to post the hebrew one, then we could translate it individaul by google translator

Jesus pbuh is jewish prophet sent to jews people , if the bible declare that the kingdom of god will removed from you " the jews " that's mean evidencely it's will given to other nation

did you get the meaning of the verse ?

There is a question of timing also. Mat 21:40 When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
The lord of the vineyard is Jesus but is His return when He is resurrected or in the end time when Jesus returns to destroy the enemies of Israel and set up His kingdom on earth. It appears to me to be the latter because Jesus does not appear to be interested in nation building at present.