The End is near...or is it?

[AxisMundi]

If there is no such thing as 'Christian in name only' then why did Jesus teach that many would come in his name proving false? -Matt chapter seven.

Just to provide fuel for the theopolitical machine.

You have to remember, your Christ never set pen to paper, which I find suprising considering he was a lettered Rabbi.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Just to provide fuel for the theopolitical machine.
You have to remember, your Christ never set pen to paper, which I find suprising considering he was a lettered Rabbi.

There is no Scripture that says Jesus was a lettered Rabbi.
However, Jesus was primarily known as a teacher.
As Luke [4v43] recorded that Jesus must preach the kingdom of God
[Dan 2v44;7vs13,14] ..... because that is why he was sent forth.

God's kingdom is the only solution to mankind's problems.
Imitation Christians look to political kingdoms as the solution.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No difference whatsoever, neighbor.
You can pretend all you wish.
There isn't an example of a Abrahamic theocracy, theonomy, or theodemocracy past or present that wasn't/isn't something absolutely horrible.

What was absolutely horrible example about the conditions Adam lived under?
What was Adam lacking?

 

[Runewolf1973]

You're welcome.

Isaiah agrees with you that everything that exists is energy....
According to Isaiah [40v26 B,28] it is God that supplied the need high-density dynamic energy to create and maintain the universe. -Jeremiah 10v12; 32v17
Psalm 104v30 shows the energy from God's spirit creates.

If no intelligence was involved, then why did Antony Flew after decades conclude that DNA research shows....that intelligence must have been involved?

Anthony Flew was struggling it seems, with the idea of how "life" first appeared on Earth. Science did not give him the answers he was looking for, so he turned to deism for those answers. At least that's what I gather from the little I read about him.

I don't know how to really express my ideas the best in words, but I'll try..

Anyways, I think I stated in an earlier post that I do not believe in "life" or "death", only energy and change. To me "life" and "death" are merely names we give to what happens to energy as it takes on certain transformations, but it is ultimately still just energy changing form. The reason why scientists can't seem to find the definitive reason as to why "life" exists on Earth is the fact that they are treating this thing called "life" as something that is unique and separate from that which is energy. I believe there is only energy in this Universe, of which we are a small part of. Furthermore, although I do not believe in a God, I do believe that in order for energy to be able to change form and have an "action and reaction" or "cause and effect", it must also have a certain level of consciousness. Basically, consciousness is our ability to act and react to things around us...our awareness. I believe this stems from the energy within our bodies and our brains and the complex actions and reactions of that same energy. They say, Abiogenesis is the study of how "animate life" arose from "inanimate" matter... I have to disagree with that analysis. It is my own logic that tells me that in order for matter/energy to be vibrational, change form and have an action/reaction, it too must be animate. I believe that all energy and everything that exists in this Universe is animate. So long as energy itself exists and things are composed of that energy, there is absolutely nothing in this Universe that does not have at least some movement or experience some sort of change/transformation. So there you have it...animate "life forms" (energy forms) arose and evolved from very much animate and ever-changing matter. By putting so many different labels on things and trying to define them as separate "things", by very nature of that fact, scientists are creating bigger "mysteries". It is not so mysterious....it is simply energy..."starstuff". That is all. Anyways, that is just how I see things.

 

[Sententia]

What if "life" and "death" don't really exist?

You tell me. Define Life. Define Death. Describe how they relate to you. Then explain to me why you think neither exist.

If I am really, really lucky you have studied neuroscience and philosophy and might have a clue but I am not holding my breath.

 

[Sententia]

I don't believe in creation. I believe that everything that exists is energy in one form or another. Energy can neither be created, nor destroyed, only change form. Therefore, that which we call "life" is merely energy that changed form over time and was not "created" by some intelligence.

Doesn't this dodge the question in a different manner?

The creationist says nothing comes from nothing therefore something must have created stuff and that creator is something that always was therefore is immune to the nothing comes from nothing... then it goes on to say we should worship said creator with different tales.

Correct me if I wrong but your argument is that energy can't come from nothing therefore energy just always has been and will just keep changing forms.

Not a whole lot different from the theist argument although I accept neither and think more investigation is warranted as I dont feel either of the presented solutions are complete. But I am wrong a lot so who knows.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Doesn't this dodge the question in a different manner?

The creationist says nothing comes from nothing therefore something must have created stuff and that creator is something that always was therefore is immune to the nothing comes from nothing... then it goes on to say we should worship said creator with different tales.

Correct me if I wrong but your argument is that energy can't come from nothing therefore energy just always has been and will just keep changing forms.

Not a whole lot different from the theist argument although I accept neither and think more investigation is warranted as I dont feel either of the presented solutions are complete. But I am wrong a lot so who knows.

Yes, I do believe that energy has always existed in some form or other. I don't believe a God created it. What is wrong with that? I also believe that all there is is energy....everything else is just another label we put on the basically same thing. You ask me what anything is, I will tell you it is composed of energy. How is that wrong?

 

[Runewolf1973]

You tell me. Define Life. Define Death. Describe how they relate to you. Then explain to me why you think neither exist.

If I am really, really lucky you have studied neuroscience and philosophy and might have a clue but I am not holding my breath.

I already explained to you how I consider "life" and "death". I rationalize my own explanations and come to my own conclusions and beliefs. Some people all they do is read books, but they never really stop and think for themselves. I look to nature itself for my reasons for believeing what I do. Nature is the greatest teacher in my opinion. Did Charles Darwin first find the basis for his Theory of Evolution in science books and philosophy, or was it found in the observation of the natural world? Early philosophers did not have the extensive scientific understanding we do today to come up with or back up their grand ideas...they weren't always right about their ideas either. Perhaps they too looked to nature as their mentor. You know what's really disappointing about this modern world?...no one's willing to actually figure things out for themselves, perhaps out of fear of ridicule or whatever. So many students these days only go so far as to learn what other's know already. Where is the passion people like Darwin once had... To go out on their own and actually make their own observations, their own discoveries, and find their own answers to life and existence. I may not even be right about my own ideas or beliefs, and I can admit that, but at least I'm willing to think outside the box. That is what people must do when looking for answers to such great questions...think outside the box. But that's just my opinion.

 

[AxisMundi]

There is no Scripture that says Jesus was a lettered Rabbi.
However, Jesus was primarily known as a teacher.
As Luke [4v43] recorded that Jesus must preach the kingdom of God
[Dan 2v44;7vs13,14] ..... because that is why he was sent forth.

God's kingdom is the only solution to mankind's problems.
Imitation Christians look to political kingdoms as the solution.

Jesus was a Rabbi. Luke 7:40, 12:13, & 20:27-28: Matthew 22:35-36 & 19:16,

Rabbi were required to be literate so they could read the Torah.

And the world got along quite fine for 4 and a half billiosn eyars before your god hit the scene. The more than hal of the world that doenst look to your god in any form is also doing pretty fine.

 

[AxisMundi]

What was absolutely horrible example about the conditions Adam lived under?
What was Adam lacking?

Are we going to stick to real world examples or not?

There is simply no evidence for your Adam myth, and indeed all evidence against.

And speaking of real world examples, feel free to lsit one Abrahamic run Nation that did not see the removal of basic human rights and equality.

 

[Sententia]

I already explained to you how I consider "life" and "death". I rationalize my own explanations and come to my own conclusions and beliefs. Some people all they do is read books, but they never really stop and think for themselves. I look to nature itself for my reasons for believeing what I do. Nature is the greatest teacher in my opinion. Did Charles Darwin first find the basis for his Theory of Evolution in science books and philosophy, or was it found in the observation of the natural world? Early philosophers did not have the extensive scientific understanding we do today to come up with or back up their grand ideas...they weren't always right about their ideas either. Perhaps they too looked to nature as their mentor. You know what's really disappointing about this modern world?...no one's willing to actually figure things out for themselves, perhaps out of fear of ridicule or whatever. So many students these days only go so far as to learn what other's know already. Where is the passion people like Darwin once had... To go out on their own and actually make their own observations, their own discoveries, and find their own answers to life and existence. I may not even be right about my own ideas or beliefs, and I can admit that, but at least I'm willing to think outside the box. That is what people must do when looking for answers to such great questions...think outside the box. But that's just my opinion.

Aye. Passion is a lost cause on many people these days. However there are people with passion still and sometimes to get to that next level you need to understand everything that came before and led up to the current conclusions and maybe in just learning that you spot a mistake and change history.

Whats crazy about this how there seems to be an equation of early beginning stories:

God always was and created everything and needed no Creator.
Energy always was and creates everything and needed no Creator.
The universe always was and embodies everything and needed no Creator.

Everyone from 50,000 feet seems to agree. Its only when we zoom in that the differences become blinding and people begin to bicker.

Seemingly most people agree that there was something that needed no beginning and will always be.

There are many ways to go from here by philosophical discussions or via physics & mathematics. etc. Its a fascinating subject to be sure, Sciam was just talking about how time could end and physics would just evolve to timeless physics: The Paradox of Time: Why It Can't Stop, But Must: Scientific American

Yes, I do believe that energy has always existed in some form or other. I don't believe a God created it. What is wrong with that? I also believe that all there is is energy....everything else is just another label we put on the basically same thing. You ask me what anything is, I will tell you it is composed of energy. How is that wrong?

It could be right. Its an interesting idea and fondly reminds me of old ex nihilo debates.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus was a Rabbi. Luke 7:40, 12:13, & 20:27-28: Matthew 22:35-36 & 19:16,
Rabbi were required to be literate so they could read the Torah.
And the world got along quite fine for 4 and a half billiosn eyars before your god hit the scene. The more than hal of the world that doenst look to your god in any form is also doing pretty fine.

Well more than half the world doesn't look to the God of Jesus.
Does that make Jesus wrong or the world ?

How is doing pretty fine include the Doom-and-gloom Doom's Day Clock with its hand set to striking close to the dark midnight hour?
How is doing pretty fine include man's doom-and-gloom Doom's Day Weapons of nuclear destruction?
How is doing pretty fine include the doom-and -gloom of religious terrorism?


The term Rabbi is not used in the Hebrew Scriptures as it is today.

Rabbi such as used at John 3v26 calling John the Baptist as Rabbi meaning: teacher.-[Luke 1vs76-79; John 20v16]

That is why also at John 1v38 Rabbi is being interpreted as Master or Teacher.
-Matthew 19v16; 23v8.

There is no indication in Scripture that Jesus had letters although called teacher. By age 12 Jesus [Luke 2vs46,47] already had a well-rounded religious education 'without letters'.

Without 'letters' one could stand up in the Synagogue to read aloud.
Luke 4vs16,17

 

[Runewolf1973]

Seemingly most people agree that there was something that needed no beginning and will always be.

Hmmm... I have thought of something that has always existed, even before the Universe itself came into being, needed no beginning, and it will always exist.... that is Potential.

 

[AxisMundi]

Well more than half the world doesn't look to the God of Jesus.
Does that make Jesus wrong or the world ?

It eliminates the argumentum ad numerium you people like to indulge in.

It also tends to bring your relgiion into focus, ie it isn;t some world encompassing "truth".

How is doing pretty fine include the Doom-and-gloom Doom's Day Clock with its hand set to striking close to the dark midnight hour?
How is doing pretty fine include man's doom-and-gloom Doom's Day Weapons of nuclear destruction?
How is doing pretty fine include the doom-and -gloom of religious terrorism?

Dooms Day Clock? Which one? There are several as moot as they all are.
You mean the weapons only used once which cost several hundred lives but saved several hundred thousands?
Religious terrorism has been part of the world for two thousand years. Where've you been?

The term Rabbi is not used in the Hebrew Scriptures as it is today.

Rabbi such as used at John 3v26 calling John the Baptist as Rabbi meaning: teacher.-[Luke 1vs76-79; John 20v16]

That is why also at John 1v38 Rabbi is being interpreted as Master or Teacher.
-Matthew 19v16; 23v8.

Same difference.

There is no indication in Scripture that Jesus had letters although called teacher. By age 12 Jesus [Luke 2vs46,47] already had a well-rounded religious education 'without letters'.

Without 'letters' one could stand up in the Synagogue to read aloud.
Luke 4vs16,17

Right, so a person who cannot read can stand up in Temple and read aloud.

Do you realize how silly that sounds?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Of course a person that reads, gets up to read.
Why would a person not being able to read get up to read?
One does not have to have 'letters' after their name in order to read.
Visit any grade school and one can find those that read without having 'letters'.

 

[Sententia]

Hmmm... I have thought of something that has always existed, even before the Universe itself came into being, needed no beginning, and it will always exist.... that is Potential.

Potential what? Before the universe existed as in "Pre Big Bang" theories. (Link, 2, 3)

 

[Runewolf1973]

Potential what? Before the universe existed as in "Pre Big Bang" theories. (Link, 2, 3)

I was thinking perhaps something like Potential Energy....or something along those lines, but who knows... Maybe it takes more energy for things not to exist than for them to exist. It is all speculation on my part anyways. I find it a rather fascinating topic. Thanks for the links.

 

[dogsgod]

I really hate to agree with this statement, but I think that all signs point to it. The global warming statistics are inexorable, and world governments are finding it politically impossible to do what is necessary to alleviate the problem. Most of the world's population lives near coasts, and there will be panic as large population centers face rapidly rising sea levels later in this century. We cannot wean ourselves off of carbon-based energy supplies quickly enough. It is difficult to see how civilization can survive in the face of rising sea levels, the depletion of fresh water supplies, the disruption in the food chain, and the loss of arable land in the next several decades.

I think a significant number of people will die off when we run out of oil within the next few decades. The food that is distributed world wide will slow down to a trickle. All the up and coming technology that is needed to provide new sources pf energy can't compare to how reliant we are on oil. Unless we find a way to harness fusion, I don't see how we can sustain the populations we have around the globe.

 

[Duck]

According to Scripture Satan is now the god of this world today- 2 Cor 4v4.
Satan's 'godship' is temporary. Jesus will destroy Satan.-Hebrews 2v14 b.
Science does not know all there is to know because of Satan's influence.
According to Scripture God gifted the earth to mankind to enjoy forever.
God as Creator can keep his promised gift to us in a way that science today knows nothing about. If God wishes an old warn-out garment to be changed [Psalm 102v26] it will be changed. So according to Scripture God will keep his promise and the earth abides forever.- Ecc 1v4 b

We are so confident when we go to bed at night that the sun and earth will be here in the morning that mankind makes sure plans around that fact.

So, if according to your holy book, your Satan is god of this world, remind me who you are worshipping again?

 

[Katzpur]

"Near" is relative.