Female Muslims... please explain

[Badran]

I want to add my answers to your post Marsh if you don't mind.

I could point to a link where a brother murdered his own sister with the assistance of his father, to preserve the father's honor. The family -- Muslim. Look up the honor killing of 16 year old Aqsa Parvez, in Toronto, Ontario.

Crimes happen everywhere.

The domestic violence present in black communities relates more to poverty, I would think.

Yes, and poverty is also very existent in a large number of Islamic societies.

The important point is the practice of violence against women is not condoned anywhere in the West. It is discouraged at every level of Western society. In Islamic society, however, wife beating seems to be a practice that is condoned. It is seen to be a husband's right to beat his wife, so long as it is done properly.

I live in an Islamic society, and yet none of what you say is the case. I was raised, as well as everybody i know that beating women is a disgusting behavior. It still happens of course, but not because it is an accepted behavior.

The Koran permits the beating of women. This is true, yes?
My question is do you condone the beating of women if it is done within the rules established in the Koran? Is it possible for Muslims to regard such passages, as pertain to the beating of women, in the Koran as no longer acceptable in modern society?

The Quran doesn't establish any rules for how to beat women.

 

[Octavia156]

That Surah says it all. What more needs to be said?

It literally commands: "Tolerate other peoples' beliefs and ways of life." It's just one Surah, and it doesn't seem to be based on any one event, so it's fair to assume that it's a general command.

So why is Saudi Arabia so intolerant then?

 

[Octavia156]

Aside from the fact that this video doesn't even come close to addressing domestic violence, what on earth is this guy's pathetic opinions are supposed to mean to us?

It's sad to see the incapability of some people to understand that some people just don't think like you do. He is simply assuming that any woman who wants to wear burqa should see a doctor, and that she is wrong, and making loads of assumptions. This video is simply some guy, making fun of Islam, and of Muslim women, and any body who agrees or tries to respect Muslims. And this is somehow supposed to be the "statistical evidence" of abuse of women.

To make it illegal to uncover your face in public is evidence of abuse of women.

To blame a woman for being raped is evidence of abuse women.

To go on TV and explain how to beat your wife properly is clearly evidence of the condoned abuse of women - why else would this man be stating these rules? Have you ever heard Fox news explain the proper way to beat your wife?

 

[Badran]

To make it illegal to uncover your face in public is evidence of abuse.

To blame a woman for being raped is evidence of abuse.

To go on TV and explain how to beat your wife properly is evidence of abuse.

This all the behavior of bad examples of Muslims. Just like some people from other religions also practice domestic violence, and rape.....

That doesn't mean Islam encourages or advocates such things, neither does it mean that other religions do, or that certain belief systems do.

 

[Octavia156]

Then explain to me why these edicts are so rigidly enforced in all strict Muslim countries?

Are you saying then, that the whole of Saudi Arabia et al. consists of 'bad Muslims'?

 

[Badran]

Then explain to me why is it rigidly enforced in all strict Muslim countries?

Are you saying then, that the whole of Saudi Arabia et al. consists of 'bad Muslims'?

No, of course not, but there system has some mistakes in some matters in my opinion. The problem is, that there are a lot of cultural ideas that are attached to Islam, while Islam doesn't prescribe it.

Also, there is a a lot of other Muslim countries, in which women enjoy all their rights, and are not being abused like this. Don't forget also, that most Muslim countries are in bad conditions, in various ways. Either war, or poverty... In other words, most of the problems you see, i believe are social problems. For example, we have certain behavior in the south here in Egypt, that is completely against Islam, yet those people do it out of honor and so, we have campaigns against such things, and people are all the time discussing these problems on TV.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

This is not correct. Islam permits the man to disclipine his wife in the case she has been rebellious. The disclipine is no more than would be allowed for a child. Certainly nothing occasioning domestic abuse.

Just curious, Abu. In Islam, does a woman have the right to discipline her husband if he is rebellious? I mean, I'm not espousing that she should abuse him ... you know - nothing that could break bones or show bruises ...

 

[Riverwolf]

So why is Saudi Arabia so intolerant then?

Politics preventing it, maybe? (Just like before...)

I go by what the Qur'an says, and stay with that. Whether or not others actually follow it isn't my business.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Answering the OP:

You know, as muslim females it is not of our habit to answer every dog barking we may find in the street ( I dont mean you, its a comparison). . never. And thats not because we are muslim or females, but just because we are reasonable enough not to do so, and every reasonable person would do the same.

AAAnyway.. Ill give it a go , but you wont and you will not read what Im quoting until you have sincerety in your seeking of answers. If the reason behind your questions is only hate and blind prejudices then stay there and I assure you that you'll have a free space to talk (bark?) all over the place as you wish.

Here we go: ( islamonline.net)

Islam & Wife Beating​

“How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” Considering the rates of domestic violence all over the world, this question, which was asked by the Prophet Muhammad more than 1400 years ago, is applicable today to all people of all faiths and cultures.
Despite the universality of domestic violence, Muslim men involved in wife-abuse have attracted more attention than others. Horrific stories of husbands beating their wives while claiming that the Qur’an gives them the right to do so are highlighted in the media. At the same time, Muslims assert that Islam honors and respects women, giving them rights that promote and preserve their human dignity.
The crux of the matter lies in the need for the distinction between Islam and the behavior of some Muslims. Each and every Muslim has rather unfairly been caste as a representative of his or her faith, and his or her behavior is immediately a reflection of Islam, not of the Muslim as a human individual.
This special file aims at clarifying the position Islam takes regarding wife-beating. Although the material presented, which is compiled from various IslamOnline.net pages, concentrates on the very specific issue of wife-beating, it is essential to point out that Islam has extensively elaborated on the rights of women at all times and in totality.

• Wife Beating: An Islamic Perspective

Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi and Dr. Jamal Badawi point out that the Prophet Muhammad never hit any female, and said that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives… More>>

• Bonds of Love and Mercy

In one of his sayings, the Prophet Muhammad equated perfect belief with good treatment of one’s wife: “Among the Muslims, the most perfect as regards his faith is the one whose character is most excellent, and the best among you are those who treat their wives well.” More>>

• Islamic View of Emotional Abuse in Marital Life

The relationship between the spouses should be based on tranquility, love and mercy. These three summarize the ideals of Islamic marriage, Zeinab Mostafa says… More>>

• Obedience within Loving Marriages

“You ask about obedience to the husband and his “right” to beat you. The answer is that he does not have the right to beat you!” More>>

• Islamic Guidance on Treating Wives

Islam has honored woman and granted her an equal status with man. Moreover, Dr. `Abdul-Fattah `Ashoor assures that a woman can excel a man by obeying Allah, drawing near to Him, and perfectly fulfilling her religious duties… More>>

• Equal Rights for Women

“As far as I know, Muslim men treat women with no respect, beat them, oppress them and sometimes kill them!” one visitor says. But, as our consultant points out, the problem is with the practice and not with the law either in Islam or any other culture… More>>

• Marriage: The Basis of Family

Islam considers marriage to be one of the most virtuous and approved of institutions, and Islam has many teachings on how husbands and wives should deal with each other lovingly… More>>

• Husband and Wife: Mutual Rights and Obligations

In Islam, the marriage of a man and a woman is not merely a financial and physical arrangement of living together but a sacred contract, a gift of God, to lead a happy, enjoyable life… More>>

I dont know if the links will work for you, as I just realised they're not working for me anymore.

If they dont, then try to read this one:

Is wife beating allowed in Islam?

Now, please dont answer me until youve read at least the first link in the quote. Otherwise, everyone will know that you're not willing to debate but to let your hate go.

Its not of my nature to be rude, but you started it so..

Best regards

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Answering the OP:

You know, as muslim females it is not of our habit to answer every dog barking we may find in the street ( I dont mean you, its a comparison). . never. And thats not because we are muslim or females, but just because we are reasonable enough not to do so, and every reasonable person would do the same.

AAAnyway.. Ill give it a go , but you wont and you will not read what Im quoting until you have sincerety in your seeking of answers. If the reason behind your questions is only hate and blind prejudices then stay there and I assure you that you'll have a free space to talk (bark?) all over the place as you wish.

Here we go:

Islam & Wife Beating​

“How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” Considering the rates of domestic violence all over the world, this question, which was asked by the Prophet Muhammad more than 1400 years ago, is applicable today to all people of all faiths and cultures.
Despite the universality of domestic violence, Muslim men involved in wife-abuse have attracted more attention than others. Horrific stories of husbands beating their wives while claiming that the Qur’an gives them the right to do so are highlighted in the media. At the same time, Muslims assert that Islam honors and respects women, giving them rights that promote and preserve their human dignity.
The crux of the matter lies in the need for the distinction between Islam and the behavior of some Muslims. Each and every Muslim has rather unfairly been caste as a representative of his or her faith, and his or her behavior is immediately a reflection of Islam, not of the Muslim as a human individual.
This special file aims at clarifying the position Islam takes regarding wife-beating. Although the material presented, which is compiled from various IslamOnline.net pages, concentrates on the very specific issue of wife-beating, it is essential to point out that Islam has extensively elaborated on the rights of women at all times and in totality.

• Wife Beating: An Islamic Perspective

Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi and Dr. Jamal Badawi point out that the Prophet Muhammad never hit any female, and said that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives… More>>

• Bonds of Love and Mercy

In one of his sayings, the Prophet Muhammad equated perfect belief with good treatment of one’s wife: “Among the Muslims, the most perfect as regards his faith is the one whose character is most excellent, and the best among you are those who treat their wives well.” More>>

• Islamic View of Emotional Abuse in Marital Life

The relationship between the spouses should be based on tranquility, love and mercy. These three summarize the ideals of Islamic marriage, Zeinab Mostafa says… More>>

• Obedience within Loving Marriages

“You ask about obedience to the husband and his “right” to beat you. The answer is that he does not have the right to beat you!” More>>

• Islamic Guidance on Treating Wives

Islam has honored woman and granted her an equal status with man. Moreover, Dr. `Abdul-Fattah `Ashoor assures that a woman can excel a man by obeying Allah, drawing near to Him, and perfectly fulfilling her religious duties… More>>

• Equal Rights for Women

“As far as I know, Muslim men treat women with no respect, beat them, oppress them and sometimes kill them!” one visitor says. But, as our consultant points out, the problem is with the practice and not with the law either in Islam or any other culture… More>>

• Marriage: The Basis of Family

Islam considers marriage to be one of the most virtuous and approved of institutions, and Islam has many teachings on how husbands and wives should deal with each other lovingly… More>>

• Husband and Wife: Mutual Rights and Obligations

In Islam, the marriage of a man and a woman is not merely a financial and physical arrangement of living together but a sacred contract, a gift of God, to lead a happy, enjoyable life… More>>

I dont know if the links will work for you, as I just realised they're not working for me anymore.

If they dont, then try to read this one:

Is wife beating allowed in Islam?

Now, please dont answer me until youve read at least the first link in the quote. Otherwise, everyone will know that you're not willing to debate but to let your hate go.

Its not of my nature to be rude, but you started it so..

Best regards

 

[Abu Rashid]

So why is Saudi Arabia so intolerant then?

Why don't you ask those who established "Saudi Arabia"? Or those who continue to prop it up? It certainly has nothing to do with Islam. In fact "Saudi Arabia" was established for the very express purpose of dismantling Islamic rule in the peninsula.

I find it quite ridiculous when people from Britain (as you seem to be) claim "Saudi Arabia" is an example of Islam, it's an example of Britain. You guys are the founders and sustainers of "Saudi Arabia". It's your project, your state, your ideals, not ours.

Just curious, Abu. In Islam, does a woman have the right to discipline her husband if he is rebellious? I mean, I'm not espousing that she should abuse him ... you know - nothing that could break bones or show bruises ...

No of course not! Just as children don't have a right to disclipine their parents either. There is a clearly established structure of authority in the family according to Islam (as there oughta be).

 

[Badran]

No of course not! Just as children don't have a right to disclipine their parents either. There is a clearly established structure of authority in the family according to Islam (as there oughta be).

Abu Rashid, i'm not sure i understand you correctly, but the relationship between a woman and her husband is not like the relationship between parents and there kids. Women are not minors.

 

[Abu Rashid]

Badran, it is not the same, but there are of course some similarities.

The husband has a special duty of care over his wife, as he has over his children. He must provide for her, as he must provide for them, and he may also disclipine her as he disclipines them.

 

[Badran]

Badran, it is not the same, but there are of course some similarities.

The husband has a special duty of care over his wife, as he has over his children. He must provide for her, as he must provide for them, and he may also disclipine her as he disclipines them.

Oh okay. I agree that a man is responsible to care and provide for his wife. What is your opinion on how would a woman stop her husband if he is mistreating her, not abusing her, i mean if he is just mistreating her. I view things a little differently on some parts, but i want to know what you think a woman should do concerning her husband if he is mistreating her.

 

[Abu Rashid]

Without you giving a specific example, then it's difficult to say. For me akhi, the red lines are defined by the Shari'ah of Islam. Anyone who steps beyond the red lines is accountable to Allah and to the state. So if it is an illegal abuse then she should report it to the authorities, if it is not, then she should have sabr and and advise him or seek the counsel of her wali.

 

[Kerr]

Badran, it is not the same, but there are of course some similarities.

The husband has a special duty of care over his wife, as he has over his children. He must provide for her, as he must provide for them, and he may also disclipine her as he disclipines them.

How would this discipline look? Asking because I have a very hard time imagining how you can discipline an adult individual like that. And more over, what if he is wrong?

 

[Abu Rashid]

Kerr,

Keep in mind it is only in extreme circumstances. It must be only after all other avenues of disclipine have been tried, including sleeping separately (this is clearly mentioned in the Qur'an), which clearly indicates it should not be a strike of anger, but a symbolic act of disclipine. It may not leave any mark, bruising etc. Can never be on the face or other delicate area.

And more over, what if he is wrong?

It is in the case when there is clear rebelliousness, in which case there'd be no ambiguity that she'd done wrong. And if she did not ceased committing the rebellion even after being separated from the marital bed.

 

[Badran]

Without you giving a specific example, then it's difficult to say. For me akhi, the red lines are defined by the Shari'ah of Islam. Anyone who steps beyond the red lines is accountable to Allah and to the state. So if it is an illegal abuse then she should report it to the authorities, if it is not, then she should have sabr and and advise him or seek the counsel of her wali.

Thanks Abu Rashid. That was what i wanted to know, your opinion on the part about if he just mistreated her without crossing any lines that would call for punishment, then she should advise him and/or seek there parents or elders to interfere etc...

 

[MissAlice]

Badran, it is not the same, but there are of course some similarities.

The husband has a special duty of care over his wife, as he has over his children. He must provide for her, as he must provide for them, and he may also disclipine her as he disclipines them.

Abu I'm curious, what does this discipline of the wife include?

 

[Abu Rashid]

MissAlice,

I couldn't really say, never having had to do it myself, thank God.

But you could be a little imaginative. As I said, it's about the same as disclipining a child, you can fill in the spaces.