Ethics, principals and morals

[Archer]

Your post spoke of fornication and plural marriage. Nothing in storms posts made any reference to this. You inferred it because of your lack of understanding. There is not the slightest implication of plural marriage in any of storms posts in this thread. Go back and read them again if you don’t believe me.

A bi-sexual is someone who can be in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex or someone of the same sex. And where same sex marriage is legal a bi-sexual person can be legally married to someone of the opposite sex or to someone of the same sex.

To me, as I understood it, it was stating a marriage of some sort with infidelity on the side or being married to both at the same time. How else can you have both? the ways you can have it.
Monogamous Marriage with infidelity
Plural marriage
Fornication

Take your pick but other than having a kid before marriage or after a divorce it is not possible (excluding artificial means and then why mention Bi?).

 

[fantome profane]

To me, as I understood it, it was stating a marriage of some sort with infidelity on the side.

You didn’t understand it correctly.

 

[Archer]

You didn’t understand it correctly.

Enlighten me, really I am not making a smart reply I really want to know.

 

[fantome profane]

Enlighten me, really I am not making a smart reply I really want to know.

I don’t really know how to make it any clearer than this.

A bi-sexual is someone who can be in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex or someone of the same sex. And where same sex marriage is legal a bi-sexual person can be legally married to someone of the opposite sex or to someone of the same sex.


I noticed that you edited your post after I responded to it. You added this.

To me, as I understood it, it was stating a marriage of some sort with infidelity on the side or being married to both at the same time. How else can you have both? the ways you can have it.
Monogamous Marriage with infidelity
Plural marriage
Fornication

Take your pick but other than having a kid before marriage or after a divorce it is not possible (excluding artificial means and then why mention Bi?).

So why would you assume she was excluding the possibility of a child from a previous marriage?

Let’s imagine that Dick and Jane get married right out of high school, and have a couple of kids. They have a wonderful marriage and loving family until Dick gets killed in a car wreck. After a decent mourning period Jane falls in love a second time with “Pat”. Pat is a wonderful loving person who is very good with Jane’s children and is like a second parent. Now Pat and Jane get married and together they provide a loving home to raise these children.

what is the problem with this scenario?

 

[Willamena]

what is the problem with this scenario?

The use of the name "Pat" as gender-inspecific.

~Patty

 

[fantome profane]

The use of the name "Pat" as gender-inspecific.

~Patty

You're quick.

 

[Archer]

I don’t really know how to make it any clearer than this.

A bi-sexual is someone who can be in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex or someone of the same sex. And where same sex marriage is legal a bi-sexual person can be legally married to someone of the opposite sex or to someone of the same sex.


I noticed that you edited your post after I responded to it. You added this.



So why would you assume she was excluding the possibility of a child from a previous marriage?

Let’s imagine that Dick and Jane get married right out of high school, and have a couple of kids. They have a wonderful marriage and loving family until Dick gets killed in a car wreck. After a decent mourning period Jane falls in love a second time with “Pat”. Pat is a wonderful loving person who is very good with Jane’s children and is like a second parent. Now Pat and Jane get married and together they provide a loving home to raise these children.

what is the problem with this scenario?

I did not exclude it, did I?

 

[fantome profane]

I did not exclude it, did I?

So what is the problem? What don't you understand?

 

[Archer]

So what is the problem? What don't you understand?

I wanted clarification that is all it's all good now.

 

[Archer]

How about a change of direction?

Death penalty. I am pro life on this.for example a murderer: If we sentence someone to death has it served anything? Would it not be better to isolate someone for the rest of their natural lives? No tv, no entertainment, just food and a some time each day get out and move around get some exercise and do a little socializing (very little)? The rest of the time in silence to contemplate their miserable life? OH no visitation, the family of the victim cant see their loved one.

I will say that the bar need be raised to convict, and irrefutable evidence need be presented. Video, confession, DNA, witnesses......... I will say that witnesses need have one of the other items listed as it has been proven that witnesses are not the best witnesses.

 

[Cobblestones]

How about a change of direction? Death penalty. I am pro life on this.

Life in prison is a worse punishment than death, IMHO. I honestly think we don't employ the DP enough. Look at places where they take the DP seriously (anywhere in the Middle East will do) and look at the crime statistics. As far as cause & effect, I think they demonstrate that if used properly, the DP is an effective deterrent to crime and also has the added benefit of not being a financial drain on the state.

The problem in Western society is that we coddle criminals. I think that's basically as stupid as you can get. Thrash the buggers, I say.

 

[Zadok]

I am very concerned and regretful that so many here at this forum hold the core family of a biological father and mother in such low esteem. Perhaps this is a reflection of your own families.

My father is the greatest man I ever knew. I feel honored that I was able to take turns with my siblings to care for him during the last six months of his life. My mother is the kindest sweetest person I know. When I was young my father would get his sons up every Saturday morning at 5:00 am and we would go spend half the day helping out with service somewhere, repairing homes, doing yard work, clearing roads, picking fruit or helping out somewhere. It was what dad was and what he taught.

I thought every dad loved and cared for their children like my father did for his. I thought every mother taught their children as I was taught by my mother. I have learned that few experience a loving caring core family. What I have come to learn is that men of honor like my father are rare and women of compassion like my mother are few. I guess times have indeed changed and such families are old fashion, out of date and so simple and very easy to replace. I am so sorry that so few know of or realize the great worth of old fashion families.

It is especially painful to realize that so many see no value to the role of fathers and fathering in society. That the influences of biological fathers giving examples to families that will someday be but such things will soon be an institution of the past and a new society will dance on our grave and celebrate the passing of families. I had hoped to strike some cord of found remembrance with your family. I apologize for not doing a better job of it. But then, perhaps families really are not needed and truly are of no value or need to be cherished or preserved. But I remember and honor my forefathers, my heritage and my family legacy. It will remain my greatest treasure and my last hope for my descendents. It is the one thing more than any other inheritance I hope to pass on to my descendents and generations to follow.

If anyone is interested in being part of a family worth valuing and passing on – let me know. I will be most glad to assist you in any I can.

Zadok

 

[Archer]

Life in prison is a worse punishment than death, IMHO. I honestly think we don't employ the DP enough. Look at places where they take the DP seriously (anywhere in the Middle East will do) and look at the crime statistics. As far as cause & effect, I think they demonstrate that if used properly, the DP is an effective deterrent to crime and also has the added benefit of not being a financial drain on the state.

The problem in Western society is that we coddle criminals. I think that's basically as stupid as you can get. Thrash the buggers, I say.

I would agree but for one who has no value for life, and no reason not to commit murder as they don't care about their life, death is too light of a sentence.

 

[Archer]

I am very concerned and regretful that so many here at this forum hold the core family of a biological father and mother in such low esteem. Perhaps this is a reflection of your own families.

My father is the greatest man I ever knew. I feel honored that I was able to take turns with my siblings to care for him during the last six months of his life. My mother is the kindest sweetest person I know. When I was young my father would get his sons up every Saturday morning at 5:00 am and we would go spend half the day helping out with service somewhere, repairing homes, doing yard work, clearing roads, picking fruit or helping out somewhere. It was what dad was and what he taught.

I thought every dad loved and cared for their children like my father did for his. I thought every mother taught their children as I was taught by my mother. I have learned that few experience a loving caring core family. What I have come to learn is that men of honor like my father are rare and women of compassion like my mother are few. I guess times have indeed changed and such families are old fashion, out of date and so simple and very easy to replace. I am so sorry that so few know of or realize the great worth of old fashion families.

It is especially painful to realize that so many see no value to the role of fathers and fathering in society. That the influences of biological fathers giving examples to families that will someday be but such things will soon be an institution of the past and a new society will dance on our grave and celebrate the passing of families. I had hoped to strike some cord of found remembrance with your family. I apologize for not doing a better job of it. But then, perhaps families really are not needed and truly are of no value or need to be cherished or preserved. But I remember and honor my forefathers, my heritage and my family legacy. It will remain my greatest treasure and my last hope for my descendents. It is the one thing more than any other inheritance I hope to pass on to my descendents and generations to follow.

If anyone is interested in being part of a family worth valuing and passing on – let me know. I will be most glad to assist you in any I can.

Zadok

I feel ya. We in the modern world must accept these things. Remember in the beginning of this Country USA (as well as most others) Christianity and the principals of which you speak were in place for the most part. Christians are weak in one way as they follow the teachings of the Bible and Jesus and therefore are stepped on, their strength is in salvation.

Last ~250 years (500 years ago this would have never gone this far, though there were exceptions)

These people who trash talk that holy book should be glad Christians gave in, otherwise we would be living as some Muslim states. Think of times before the Protestant reformation and early 17th century America.

 

[Magic Man]

I am very concerned and regretful that so many here at this forum hold the core family of a biological father and mother in such low esteem. Perhaps this is a reflection of your own families.

Who holds that in low esteem? I haven't heard anyone say that. What I've heard is that that model is not the end-all-be-all of family units. Single-parent units, same-sex couple units, and units that involve either one or two non-biological parents all work well in many cases, just like your version does.

As for the last sentence, that was unnecessary. My biological parents are still together and have provided my brother and me with the best family and upbringing anyone could ask for.

My father is the greatest man I ever knew. I feel honored that I was able to take turns with my siblings to care for him during the last six months of his life. My mother is the kindest sweetest person I know. When I was young my father would get his sons up every Saturday morning at 5:00 am and we would go spend half the day helping out with service somewhere, repairing homes, doing yard work, clearing roads, picking fruit or helping out somewhere. It was what dad was and what he taught.

I thought every dad loved and cared for their children like my father did for his. I thought every mother taught their children as I was taught by my mother. I have learned that few experience a loving caring core family. What I have come to learn is that men of honor like my father are rare and women of compassion like my mother are few. I guess times have indeed changed and such families are old fashion, out of date and so simple and very easy to replace. I am so sorry that so few know of or realize the great worth of old fashion families.

Wow, that took a long time to say nothing. So, let me get this straight. You're saying that good parents are very, very rare these days? What do you base that on?

Also, you don't have to have both biological parents to have a great family with two people like you've described. Two men can be just as good and honorable. Two women can be just as compassionate and loving.

No one is saying there's anything wrong with the "traditional" model of a family. What you need to realize is that there are other models that work just as well.

It is especially painful to realize that so many see no value to the role of fathers and fathering in society. That the influences of biological fathers giving examples to families that will someday be but such things will soon be an institution of the past and a new society will dance on our grave and celebrate the passing of families. I had hoped to strike some cord of found remembrance with your family. I apologize for not doing a better job of it. But then, perhaps families really are not needed and truly are of no value or need to be cherished or preserved. But I remember and honor my forefathers, my heritage and my family legacy. It will remain my greatest treasure and my last hope for my descendents. It is the one thing more than any other inheritance I hope to pass on to my descendents and generations to follow.

If anyone is interested in being part of a family worth valuing and passing on – let me know. I will be most glad to assist you in any I can.

Zadok

You need help.

 

[Magic Man]

I feel ya. We in the modern world must accept these things. Remember in the beginning of this Country USA (as well as most others) Christianity and the principals of which you speak were in place for the most part. Christians are weak in one way as they follow the teachings of the Bible and Jesus and therefore are stepped on, their strength is in salvation.

Last ~250 years (500 years ago this would have never gone this far, though there were exceptions)

These people who trash talk that holy book should be glad Christians gave in, otherwise we would be living as some Muslim states. Think of times before the Protestant reformation and early 17th century America.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Kerr]

I am very concerned and regretful that so many here at this forum hold the core family of a biological father and mother in such low esteem. Perhaps this is a reflection of your own families.

Not really, for example my family may not have been very traditional, but I have a mother and a father, both biological and both very loving. Too loving, in fact, sometimes it drives me insane, lol.

However, I am not going to condemn another family or form of family because it is different. If a boy has two dads that loves and cares for him, and that they are good parents that will do what they can for their son... if it works for them, who am I to judge?

 

[footprints]

I am very concerned and regretful that so many here at this forum hold the core family of a biological father and mother in such low esteem. Perhaps this is a reflection of your own families.

My father is the greatest man I ever knew. I feel honored that I was able to take turns with my siblings to care for him during the last six months of his life. My mother is the kindest sweetest person I know. When I was young my father would get his sons up every Saturday morning at 5:00 am and we would go spend half the day helping out with service somewhere, repairing homes, doing yard work, clearing roads, picking fruit or helping out somewhere. It was what dad was and what he taught.

I thought every dad loved and cared for their children like my father did for his. I thought every mother taught their children as I was taught by my mother. I have learned that few experience a loving caring core family. What I have come to learn is that men of honor like my father are rare and women of compassion like my mother are few. I guess times have indeed changed and such families are old fashion, out of date and so simple and very easy to replace. I am so sorry that so few know of or realize the great worth of old fashion families.

It is especially painful to realize that so many see no value to the role of fathers and fathering in society. That the influences of biological fathers giving examples to families that will someday be but such things will soon be an institution of the past and a new society will dance on our grave and celebrate the passing of families. I had hoped to strike some cord of found remembrance with your family. I apologize for not doing a better job of it. But then, perhaps families really are not needed and truly are of no value or need to be cherished or preserved. But I remember and honor my forefathers, my heritage and my family legacy. It will remain my greatest treasure and my last hope for my descendents. It is the one thing more than any other inheritance I hope to pass on to my descendents and generations to follow.

If anyone is interested in being part of a family worth valuing and passing on – let me know. I will be most glad to assist you in any I can.

Zadok

Zadok I really do feel sorrow and pity for you. I sincerly hope one day you see the world as a better place than the world you are seeing now.

 

[Archer]

What the hell are you talking about?

If ya don't get it you wont, I don't think. In essence it says get used to it.

 

[Cobblestones]

I am very concerned and regretful that so many here at this forum hold the core family of a biological father and mother in such low esteem. Perhaps this is a reflection of your own families.

I come from a traditional family. I am married and have lots of kids. I have no "gay" tendencies. But that does not mean that I am incapable of rational thought. You seem to think that homosexuality is an all-or-nothing proposition as far as society is concerned. What you fail at is recognizing that there have been gay people all through history but that for the first time in history we are looking at them as people, not freaks of nature or abhorrent devil-possessed people that we need to avoid.

Accepting gay people for what they are is no more harmful to the traditional family than accepting black or Chinese people or women or any other minority group into the work force. To stop the bigotry against these groups has proven to be not only beneficial but really the only humane way to behave. All I'm saying is that it's time to stop labeling "gays" and treating them like people instead of some category of human being that you think is vile just by their very existence.