Mr Cheese
Well-Known Member
...................your answer just proved my point, if kabbalah is a comentary on the Torah, you can't take the kabblah out of the Torah, don't you understand that?
You dont know much about Kabbalah obviously....
there are many forms. Practical kabbalah is hardly JUST Torah commentary....
You really think if I am using kabbalistic techniques to interact with Angels, the Angels actually care if I have read some Torah?
No they don't, because this is where practical and speculative Kabbalah differ...kabbalah is a huge subject. What you speak of, is but one aspect.
I have done practical kabbalah...I do not care if you believe me or not. But anyway....
there are 613 mitzvot in the Torah, kabbalah explains mystical reasons for each and single one of them, meaning when you fulfill each of them you repair spiritual worlds the sparks of the broken vessel from the first sin.
now when you learn kabbalah and don't keep the Torah then it all doesn't make sense.
Why? does one need to read the ingredients on a packet of soup before eating it?
I dont see what you are saying...
all the mrkavah and cheichalot and everything else you explain is worth a penny, when there is no action to follow up.
Thats the point, action. Kabbalah is a huge subject, you can spend your entire life just studying it if you like, or being speculative. Most famous Kabbalists have. The few that were actual practical kabbalists have often been shunned.... not all, but many. Merkavah and charito work, is by definition ACTION....
Is it not?
It is even more comlicated if you don't even know what are the 613 mitzvot or Torah it self.
I really only see the laws and torah itself as being important for certain aspects of kabbalah... again, do you really think Metatron or Satchiel would care if you know all 613 rules?
Now the 10 lost tribes, where did you get your idea that they don't exist? from Kabbalah? lol.
No, I meant that which is called Judaism today, does not incorporate beliefs of other groups that once existed.... Today's Judaism represents a small smorgas board fot he true plethora of "Judaism" that once existed... You can deny this if you like, history says otherwise. This is what I meant.... I am unsure if that is what you thought I meant.
they are LOST it doesn't mean they don't exist, now you can think they don't exist its your free choice, but to learn kabbalah and think they don't exist anymore is nonsense, it is a commentary tot he book that claims they are lost not stop to exist.
the time span between Rav Shimon bar Yochai and Moses De leon is over a thousand yrs.
Argue it out with the experts... De Leon is the one that is attributed as the author by most scholars, with a large acknowledgement that he may have p[enned some of the Zohar, but as I stated before some of the Zohar clearly predates other parts.
Kabbalah claims that the Angel Raziel gave writings to Adam in Eden, this book we have in Hebrew is clearly less than 3000 yrs old.... should we say then, the the Sefer Raziel Hamalch is actually 6000 yrs old??? Or should we be sensible and conclude myth is myth!
Kabbalah was part of oral tradition witch was written down by Shimon bar yohai who learned in from Rabbi Akivah and so on. Later it was discovered again when an Arab merchant approached the Arizal (isaac Luria) and showed him a book and said i found this its no use to me since I can't read the language, but I can sell it to you.
I am not sure what you are saying, what is your point? Again this sounds like myth and legend and romanticism.....
My friend my point is it is not kabbalah, sure the concepts are from there but it is all to complicated and different then what you are being thought by people like Arthur Green and so on, there are so many of them today. Read biographies of people like Isaac luria or Moses de leon, they are different then Arthur greens of the world (You don't get Torah knowledge from an institute). they were Holy man who devoted their lives to studying and doing mitzvot, these people where real scholars of Tanakh, Talmud, laws, traditions and so on before they even started learning kabbalah.
lets not start with the sufi stuff, kabbalah entered history before Isam did, so lets not argue who influenced what.
Why? Do you want to pretend that Kabbalah existed in isolation and drew nothign from anything but Judaism? That would be grossly innacurate and a fundamentalist idea. But then Jews aren't very forthcoming when it comes to admitting that Judaism has actually been influenced by other sources besides itself! But then Muslims and Christians aren't either ...........
If you really want to learn kabbalah go to Israel, in Jersualem there is a Yeshiva where they learn kabbalah, real kabbalah, real teachers who learned it from their teachers and so on like it always was.
Yes, there is only one "real" kind of (insert religious practice). Sadly this is untrue, but ok. Sadly even Kabbalah has its fundamentalists. Rabbi laitman is one for example Laitman.com – Kabbalah and the Meaning of Life: Michael Laitman’s Personal Blog
a little hint where to start my friend Yitzchak Kaduri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yes, a wise learned man probably, but sounds like a fundamentalist, although I could be wrong
this sounds fun FFOZ Blogs : Yartzeit of Rabbi Yitzchak Kaduri
Last edited: