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The devil

IMAM

Member
“He [Iblees] was one of the jinn; he disobeyed the Command of his Lord”[al-Kahf 18:50]

The apparent meaning is that the reason for his disobedience of his Lord was the fact that he was one of the jinn. The conjunction fa’ in the Arabic text [kaana min al-jinn fa-fasaqa ‘an amri Rabbihi] is indicative of the reason, as in the Arabic phrase saraqa fa quti’at yaduhu which means, “he stole, so his hand was cut off”, i.e., that was because he stole; or the phrase saha fa sajada which means, “he forgot so he prostrated”, i.e., that was because he forgot. The same pattern is seen in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (as for) the male thief and the female thief, cut off [fa-qta’u] (from the wrist joint) their (right) hands”

[al-Maa’idah 5:38]

i.e., because of their stealing.

Similarly, the phrase kaana min al-jinn fa-fasaqa (he was one of the jinn [so] he disobeyed…) means that this was because he was in essence one of the jinn, because this feature is what made him different from the angels, for they obeyed the command but he disobeyed. Because of the apparent meaning of this aayah, a number of scholars were of the opinion that Iblees was not originally one of the angels, rather he was one of the jinn, but he used to worship Allaah with them, so he was called by their name because he followed them, just as an ally of a tribe may be given their name. The dispute as to whether Iblees was originally an angel whom Allaah changed into a devil, or whether he was not originally an angel but was included in the word malaa’ikah (angels) because he had joined them and worshipped Allaah with them, is a well known dispute among the scholars. The evidence of those who say that he was not originally one of the angels is based on two things:

1 – The fact that angels are protected against committing kufr as was committed by Iblees, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“who disobey not, (from executing) the Commands they receive from Allaah, but do that which they are commanded”

[al-Tahreem 66:6]

“They speak not until He has spoken, and they act on His Command”[al-Anbiya’ 21:27]

2 – Allaah clearly states in this aayah [al-Kahf 18:50] that he was one of the jinn, and the jinn are not angels. They said: this is a Qur’aanic text concerning which there is some dispute.

…

Among those who stated that he was not originally one of the angels based on the apparent meaning of this aayah was-Hasan al-Basri, who was supported by al-Zamakhshaari in his Tafseer.

Al-Qurtubi said in his tafseer of Soorat al-Baqarah: “The idea that he was one of the angels is the view of the majority, Ibn ‘Abbaas, Ibn Mas’ood, Ibn Jurayj, Ibn al-Musayyib, Qutaadah and others. It is the view chosen by al-Shaykh Abu’l-Hasan and regarded as more correct by al-Tabari, and it is the apparent meaning of the phrase “except Iblees” [al-Kahf 18:50]

What the mufassireen have quoted from a group of the salaf, such as Ibn ‘Abbaas and others, that he was one of the noblest of the angels, one of the keepers of Paradise, and that he controlled the affairs of the first heaven, and that his name was ‘Azaazeel (Azazel) is all taken from the Israa’eeliyyaat (reports narrated from Jewish sources) and is not reliable.

The most clear evidence concerning this matter, the evidence cited by those who said that he was not an angel because of the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“He [Iblees] was one of the jinn; he disobeyed the Command of his Lord” [al-Kahf 18:50]

is the clearest text from the revelation that proves this point. And Allaah knows best.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Well If I Told you chaps a story you would once again mock me and ridicule me, so let us leave it at that shall we. Qarin My dear brother is an intimate freind which has been appointed to each human being, and on the day when we will all scurry forth out of our graves, we will come to see our intimate freind :)
Can you at least tell us why you think that Judgment Day is a meaningful concept and why you believe in it? Try to answer my questions without relying on scriptures to do the talking.
 

Tiapan

Grumpy Old Man
You make satan or whatever sound like an existent sentient outside the body, roaming the earth like some sort of night creature. It is my opinion that the "Devil" is part of the human psyche balancing "the good guy", also located internally in your head, along the lines of oriental Yin and Yang. Where all our actions are a combination of both.

The main problem I see with your version of this phenomena is the dogmatic insistence of right and wrong, good and evil. Nothing is black or white, it is almost always some where in between ie grey (reality). War, abortion, contraception, capital punishment are all moral grey areas. I find the black and white arguement a little naive.

Cheers
 

logician

Well-Known Member
The "devil" is simply an artifice manufactured by some religions to scare people into being believers. The idea is no more "real" than any oher myth.
 

IMAM

Member
Judgement day is a way for all of us to come to know the truth, because right now all of us are coming up with our own versions and theories about the wonders and mysteries of life, on that day all will be revealed by the One who has created us,and HE will say "Is this not the truth, which you used to rebuke and deny?".

We as mankind are foolish to think that we have all the answers, when in reality our earth is merely a speck of dust in the uiverse, we are not as important and great as wemake ourselves to be.
The ones who say that Iblees is a figment of our imagination, well they too will come to know the truth in a while. Yes he is in your mind, it is he who whispers dark suggestions into your ears, but this creature like I have said is an entity created from fire and all tht he wishes is to delude mankind and put us all on the wrong path, so that we are not able to regognise the truth .
 

IMAM

Member
Who am I to say what you should do, all I can tell you is to be aware of the true reality, so that all of you lovely people prepare yourselves as to what is to come when our souls will exit fromour throats :)
 

cottage

Well-Known Member
Judgement day is a way for all of us to come to know the truth, because right now all of us are coming up with our own versions and theories about the wonders and mysteries of life, on that day all will be revealed by the One who has created us,and HE will say "Is this not the truth, which you used to rebuke and deny?".

We as mankind are foolish to think that we have all the answers, when in reality our earth is merely a speck of dust in the uiverse, we are not as important and great as wemake ourselves to be.
The ones who say that Iblees is a figment of our imagination, well they too will come to know the truth in a while. Yes he is in your mind, it is he who whispers dark suggestions into your ears, but this creature like I have said is an entity created from fire and all tht he wishes is to delude mankind and put us all on the wrong path, so that we are not able to regognise the truth .

You've got things completely and utterly upside down! Mankind doesn't think it has all the answers - I just can't imagine where you got that idea from! Of course we're just a speck of dust in the whole scheme of the universe. It is only religionists who claim to know all the answers. In fact it is those same religionists who vainly consider themselves so important that it warrants a deity taking a special interest in them. It is self-flattery and ego-driven nonsense to speak of a supreme being who can only be identified in terms of what he can do for mankind. And the devil is just a failed means of justifying the evil in the world, since God is either unwilling or unable to prevent it.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Who am I to say what you should do, all I can tell you is to be aware of the true reality, so that all of you lovely people prepare yourselves as to what is to come when our souls will exit fromour throats :)
Why do you see the end of free will and the end of our reality as a good thing? Do you hate this world so much that you would enjoy seeing it utterly and completely destroyed?
 

IMAM

Member
I think you have not understood what I am trying to say to you, do you all think that your bones will not disperse into full disintegration? surely those who deny death are the ones who fear it the most. Death is another beginning to another journey of our celestial bodies in forms we know not. The destruction of the world is something which right before your eyes is being conducted in a well arranged manner, so whether I crave for it or not, makes no difference whatsoever, it is being destroyed for what Man' hands have sent forth, to continue to blame God is yet a very grave mistake one is making, God has created the Devil and He has created the Angels and He has created Mankind, and He has created things of some we have no knowledge and some we have no knowledge, God's Plan is strong, and HE has a firm grasp on the forelocks of the creatures HE has created and indeed HE has full command over them, the wicked he lets them enjoy the brief life of the world for a while, but in the end they too will perish and face the Angels of Death.
Iblees whatever you all might like to fanthom in your minds, is a reality and I keep telling all of you he has played his cards so correctly that look at all of you behaving and defending him of his non existence, truly he has put a spell on all of you in ways you possibly cannot perceive.
Try walking at night alone in the woods and you will feel the presence of the Jinns who abide there, try going to a remote or abandoned house, they live there, they live in this world and they yes are from another dimension, yet the ones who deny the command of their Lord try to break the vortex and enter into our realm to cause mischief.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Try walking at night alone in the woods and you will feel the presence of the Jinns who abide there, try going to a remote or abandoned house, they live there, they live in this world and they yes are from another dimension, yet the ones who deny the command of their Lord try to break the vortex and enter into our realm to cause mischief.
Um, I live in "the woods" friend. There are no jinn around me, I assure you. You are welcome to come and spend a week to prove me wrong.
 

Kerr

Well-Known Member
Try walking at night alone in the woods and you will feel the presence of the Jinns who abide there, try going to a remote or abandoned house, they live there, they live in this world and they yes are from another dimension, yet the ones who deny the command of their Lord try to break the vortex and enter into our realm to cause mischief.
Or it is just your imagination playing you tricks.
 

cottage

Well-Known Member
I think you have not understood what I am trying to say to you, do you all think that your bones will not disperse into full disintegration? surely those who deny death are the ones who fear it the most. Death is another beginning to another journey of our celestial bodies in forms we know not. The destruction of the world is something which right before your eyes is being conducted in a well arranged manner, so whether I crave for it or not, makes no difference whatsoever, it is being destroyed for what Man' hands have sent forth, to continue to blame God is yet a very grave mistake one is making, God has created the Devil and He has created the Angels and He has created Mankind, and He has created things of some we have no knowledge and some we have no knowledge, God's Plan is strong, and HE has a firm grasp on the forelocks of the creatures HE has created and indeed HE has full command over them, the wicked he lets them enjoy the brief life of the world for a while, but in the end they too will perish and face the Angels of Death.
Iblees whatever you all might like to fanthom in your minds, is a reality and I keep telling all of you he has played his cards so correctly that look at all of you behaving and defending him of his non existence, truly he has put a spell on all of you in ways you possibly cannot perceive.
Try walking at night alone in the woods and you will feel the presence of the Jinns who abide there, try going to a remote or abandoned house, they live there, they live in this world and they yes are from another dimension, yet the ones who deny the command of their Lord try to break the vortex and enter into our realm to cause mischief.

Your posts seem very confused. Who is denying death, when death is the greatest certainty of all in this world? Your every argument wants to weaken and belittle the God you say you believe in. Consider this: If there is a God, man cannot destroy the world that God has created if it is against God's will. And if it is God's will that the world be destroyed then it is God, not man, who will be responsible. It is also self-evident nonsense to speak of unbelievers 'blaming God'.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
It is also self-evident nonsense to speak of unbelievers 'blaming God'.
Why I would blame, Imam's vision of god, which is not something I believe in to begin with, is a bit of a puzzle. I'm thinking that Imam feels that it is a meaningful suggestion, which is not an especially good sign.
 

Erebus

Well-Known Member
I think you have not understood what I am trying to say to you, do you all think that your bones will not disperse into full disintegration? surely those who deny death are the ones who fear it the most. Death is another beginning to another journey of our celestial bodies in forms we know not. The destruction of the world is something which right before your eyes is being conducted in a well arranged manner, so whether I crave for it or not, makes no difference whatsoever, it is being destroyed for what Man' hands have sent forth, to continue to blame God is yet a very grave mistake one is making, God has created the Devil and He has created the Angels and He has created Mankind, and He has created things of some we have no knowledge and some we have no knowledge, God's Plan is strong, and HE has a firm grasp on the forelocks of the creatures HE has created and indeed HE has full command over them, the wicked he lets them enjoy the brief life of the world for a while, but in the end they too will perish and face the Angels of Death.
Iblees whatever you all might like to fanthom in your minds, is a reality and I keep telling all of you he has played his cards so correctly that look at all of you behaving and defending him of his non existence, truly he has put a spell on all of you in ways you possibly cannot perceive.
Try walking at night alone in the woods and you will feel the presence of the Jinns who abide there, try going to a remote or abandoned house, they live there, they live in this world and they yes are from another dimension, yet the ones who deny the command of their Lord try to break the vortex and enter into our realm to cause mischief.

I'm terribly sorry God has poisoned your mind against Satan and I truly regret that after your death your soul will be consumed utterly by the entity you have been decieved into selling your soul to. You have accepted all the lies of God, the great enemy of humanity, and doomed yourself utterly in body mind and soul.

The above paragraph is of course me being dramatic, but that doesn't change the fact that God's thirst for souls is more than a little disconcerting. What does he want them for? Remember that a favourite trick of child killers is to tell the children that he's taking them to a wonderful place.
 

IMAM

Member
I think you should understand that God is not just busy tending the affairs of us on earth, HE has created the heavens and the earth and what is beneath and what is above, God like I have said is not in need of the creatures HE has created, thus HE has created you to learn from each other and abide by HIS laws. The soul for your kind information has been created by GOD and when our body turns to dust, the soul returns to where it came from. It is not I who is deluded, rather it seems that you have missed the missing link :)

Ok if you live in the woods, go for a walk at night alll by yourself and sit next to a tree for a while and then let me know what feeling you have, and if you are truly daring cut a piece of the tree off, and then let me know the outcome :)
 

Kerr

Well-Known Member
I think you should understand that God is not just busy tending the affairs of us on earth, HE has created the heavens and the earth and what is beneath and what is above, God like I have said is not in need of the creatures HE has created, thus HE has created you to learn from each other and abide by HIS laws. The soul for your kind information has been created by GOD and when our body turns to dust, the soul returns to where it came from. It is not I who is deluded, rather it seems that you have missed the missing link :)
This is your faith, not mine. Besides, the true sign of a god worthy worship would be to make his creations independent of himself.

Ok if you live in the woods, go for a walk at night alll by yourself and sit next to a tree for a while and then let me know what feeling you have, and if you are truly daring cut a piece of the tree off, and then let me know the outcome :)
I know what you are talking about, but it has everything to do with my irrational fear of the dark and nothing to do with external forces.
 

IMAM

Member
Ah, now do you know why you fear the dark, is it because you get this tingling feeling of fear :) that my freind is how they work with your minds..
 
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