How old is the universe?

[Kilgore Trout]

Everyone dies but not everyone appreciates life nor the lives of others.

Nor does everyone get to see Paris before they die either.

 

[LittleNipper]

Anything's possible. Pink elves might sneak into my room at night and plant dreams in my head. The thing is there no reason to believe any wild speculation which has no basis in observable reality.



At whatever arbitrary, fictional speed people decide he/she/it/they do.

Have you read a 4000 plus year old book devoted to "Pink elves?" Have scientists created biological life out of the inert? *edit*

 

[LittleNipper]

Nor does everyone get to see Paris before they die either.

But the rational people who never see Paris before they die, don't suggest it doesn't exist.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

But the rational people who never see Paris before they die, don't suggest it doesn't exist.

Relevance?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Have you read a 4000 plus year old book devoted to "Pink elves?" Have scientists created biological life out of the inert? *edit*[/quote]

You're like some kind of ninja at missing the point.

 

[gnomon]

Have you read a 4000 plus year old book devoted to "Pink elves?" Have scientists created biological life out of the inert? *edit*

I've read 2,000+ year old writings on individuals using reason to measure the circumference of the Earth and other scientific endeavors. Do you not see the distinction between those using empiricism v. relying on tradition or authority.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Have you read a 4000 plus year old book devoted to "Pink elves?" Have scientists created biological life out of the inert?*edit*

Are you Hindu? The Vedas are older than anything in the Bible.

 

[Alceste]

Someone remind me what that effect is called when people tend to overestimate their own competence in direct proportion to their actual incompetence?

 

[darkendless]

So you make a judgment on the quality of scientific estimates based on an assumption (read 'guess') concerning how those estimates are derived. How sad that scientists don't have the wisdom consult you first before going out on a limb ...

I'm saying i don't know how they make their estimates.

In saying that, taking into consideration science does not know the extent of the universe, my opinion is that their estimate could be very very wrong.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Evolutionists and creationists, scientists and theologians, in fact all human beings share a common trait, they are not aware of their unawareness, aka unknown unknowns, and for this reason, all that they think they know is merely a present working hypothesis.

 

[Sunstone]

Someone remind me what that effect is called when people tend to overestimate their own competence in direct proportion to their actual incompetence?

I don't know the name of the effect, but I believe it's well understood to qualify someone for high elected office in most countries.

 

[darkendless]

Evolutionists and creationists, scientists and theologians, in fact all human beings share a common trait, they are not aware of their unawareness, aka unknown unknowns, and for this reason, all that they think they know is merely a present working hypothesis.

If that were true nothing would get done, we'd all be worrying about our level of awareness when doing so.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

If that were true nothing would get done, we'd all be worrying about our level of awareness when doing so.

Hi darkendless, how could you worry about something that you are unaware that you are unaware of? If you feel otherwise, please explain how you could worry about something you don't even know that you don't know exists!

 

[Willamena]

Someone remind me what that effect is called when people tend to overestimate their own competence in direct proportion to their actual incompetence?

Isn't that called "experience"?

Is it any wonder it's a job prerequisite?

 

[darkendless]

Hi darkendless, how could you worry about something that you are unaware that you are unaware of? If you feel otherwise, please explain how you could worry about something you don't even know that you don't know exists!

I understood nothing of what you just said :|

Basically what is an unknown unknown? There are only ever unknowns and knowns.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I understood nothing of what you just said :|

Basically what is an unknown unknown? There are only ever unknowns and knowns.

Well it may seem like that but please consider that there are known knowns, known unknowns, and a third possibility, unknown unknowns.

So you seem to be saying that you know what you know, and you know what you don't know, and that together this knowledge accounts for all that is, but there is sure to be beyond the unknowns of which you aware, unknowns of which you are not yet aware,..hence the axiom "Ignorance is bliss".

 

[Michel07]

That still doesnt make the idea of the universe being created in 6 days any more real....

I would agree with this but I find it interesting that it is those who do not believe in any of the Bible who want to take it so literally while some of us who use the Bible do not always do so ourselves but recognize some of its figurative lessons of which that ( six day creation) is such an excellent example. I would point out that the Big Bang and Hubble's observation of the expansion of the universe was scientific evidence of the creation of the universe as opposed to a popularly held theory that the universe had always existed. The Big Bang does nothing for atheism and only puts into doubt what is seen as only figurative by many believers. The same of course applys to Darwins evolution. Seen for what it is , a process, it does not in anyway question the existence of God when evolution is understood in its own context.To use an analogy, there is a process to baking and decorating a cake but after the process is complete no one says that the cake made itself or that the process of making the cake was the baker. The process and the baker are recognized as being independent of each other. And God I believe used evolution as His process for the developement of modern man. Some might say why but why a butterfly out of a caterpillar? Why not. I believe at the heart of the matter for many it is that their belief in God needs to be grounded in their understanding of God which is total futility. No one can possibly understand what is only partially known.

 

[Alceste]

Isn't that called "experience"?

Is it any wonder it's a job prerequisite?

Aha - no, it's the Dunning-Kruger Effect. (Found it).

 

[Mr Cheese]

If that were true nothing would get done, we'd all be worrying about our level of awareness when doing so.

actually no....

the real smart ones know everything is a compramise...

it is a means to an end. Science knows, the map is not the territory. So do all the people accused of ignorance.

of course many assume the map is the territory, but if one digs deep enugh, science, philosophy, math etc etc all know, its a compramise....an approximation.

Science does not deal with the truth...thats the the truth

 

[MSizer]

Katie Melua released a pop hit in the UK in 2005 called "Nine Million Bicycles", and in the lyrics she says:
"we are 12 billion years from the edge of the Universe, that's a guess, no one can ever say its true, but I know that I will always be with you".

Physicist Simon Singh pointed out in a blog that we're actually exactly 13.7 billion light years from the edge, and it's not just a guess. Melua had been an astronomy club member in high school and felt embarassed, so she re-recorded an ameneded version where she says:

"We are 13.7 billion light-years from the edge of the observable universe, that’s a good estimate with well-defined error bars, Scientists say it’s true, but acknowledge that it may be refined, and with the available information, I predict that I will always be with you"

That's classy.
8^)