=Something Bad Jesus Did=

[Harmonious]

I was under the impression that a foreign woman was not allowed to approach a Jewish male (especially a Rabbi). If that's the case, Jesus' response is completely understandable, from a cultural POV.

However, this was not the case. Not then, and not ever.

 

[Harmonious]

TO POISONSHADY313



Yes that is what all of us like to thimk of our ancestors but unfortunaterly it is not so.

Sorry to do this to you but you do not seem to aknowledge the obvious, 2000 years ago someone wrote this down as a fact of life, he had no other motive, but to tell the story as it unfoldet. ACTS10 - 25 to 28, "And when it came about that Peter entered, Cornelius met him, and fell at his feet and worshiped him. but Peter raised him up, saying, stand up; I too am just a man. And as he talked with him, he entered, and found many people assembled. And he said to them, you yuorselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him; and yet God has shown me that i should not call any man unholy or unclean."

I'm not unwilling to say that the author of Acts lied.

And in ACTS 11 - 2 - 3, we read

"And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those who were circumcised took issue with him, saying, you went to uncircumcised men and ate with them." If this does not convince you that in these days was unlawful for Jews to look upon gentiles as equals, nothing will.

No, it just convinces me that the authors of ACTS were ignorant of Jewish law. Honestly.

And the gentiles knew about the jewish law because peter said to them: you yourselves know how unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew.

Then Peter was dead wrong.

Jewish law has not changed in all that time.

By you own mouth, how can you live a peaceful coexistence if marrying them was abhorrent to you.

I can be good neighbors, or even good friends with someone without marrying her or brother. There no reason I can't live peaceably with people without marrying into their family.

and it is still abhorrent today,

Yup.

but take comfort other religions do the same thing, so you are not any worse.

I would imagine so. It would be kind of difficult to pass on the importance of any given religion to one's children if one didn't live by those principles. And if not marrying out of the religion is one of those principles, then it makes sense that other religions hold this principle besides mine.

 

[Harmonious]

Poisen
Your Jewish religion has even forgot the purpose of why they were chosen, please let me remind you, they were chosen to bring into the world the son of God, you call him the Messiah. The law and all the other blessings are the by products of that one principal mission, He is the light of the world, and not the Hebrews, however he was a Hebrew.

I'm glad you think so. But that is not the way JEWS consider our own theology, thank you.

Do you realy believe that the Jews are a "light unto the nations"
but you should know that God shows no partiality.
And if you are a light unto the nations, right now your light is in durkness, or hasn't the light been switched on yet.

It is true, that not all Jews have been the models we are supposed to be. But that doesn't mean that when Jews do what we are supposed to do, people don't stop and take notice.

People from all walks of life came to Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson for many years of his long life for advice, for blessings, for all kinds of things. When he passed away, it was a tragedy, absolutely. But he seemed to be something that many people aspired to be.

He was one example of what it means for Jews to be a light unto the nations. Rabbi Moshe Feinstein is another one. Rabbi Yoseph Soloveitchik is another.

While there are many Jews who are not what we should be, there are many Jews we ascribe to model our behavior after.

 

[Harmonious]

"If you bear the name "Jew" and rely upon the law and boast in God, and know his will, and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the law, and are confident that tyou yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the law the embodiment of knowledgr and of the truth, you therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself?

I desperately try.

you who preach that one should not steal do you steal?

Nope. I don't.

You who say that one should no commit adultery, do you commit adultery?

Nope. I don't.

You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?

Nope, I don't.

You who boast in the law, through your breaking the law you dishonor God.

I'm well aware.

FOR THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILES BECAUSE OF YOU, just as it is written.

That can be said for any Jew who doesn't do what we are supposed to do. Especially, but not only, Jesus.

 

[free spirit]

I desperately try. Nope. I don't.
Nope. I don't.
Nope, I don't.
I'm well aware.
That can be said for any Jew who doesn't do what we are supposed to do. Especially, but not only, Jesus.

Harmonious; thanks for answering my posts.
I believe that Jesus is the best thing that aver happened to the Jews. Just imagine the Christ Of God been a Jew, he is the Son of God; what more do your people want. Why are you people against him, it is beyond my comprehension.
You clutch a set of rules which in the end will only accuse you, because you cannot keep them for the duration of your life, in other words once you break the law you are guilty. For there is no forgiveness outside Christ.

 

[Harmonious]

Harmonious; thanks for answering my posts.

My pleasure.

I believe that Jesus is the best thing that aver happened to the Jews. Just imagine the Christ Of God been a Jew, he is the Son of God; what more do your people want. Why are you people against him, it is beyond my comprehension.

Because he is only useful for your theology. In mine, he was just a man. He wasn't Christ, or anointed. He isn't "son of God." He's just a Jew, and not a very good one, at that.

You clutch a set of rules which in the end will only accuse you, because you cannot keep them for the duration of your life,

Nonsense. God never demanded perfection. God knows that we aren't perfect, and never commanded us to do more than our best. We do what we are capable of, and God will worry about anything else.

in other words once you break the law you are guilty.

Says you. The law isn't there to "give guilt." The law is there to give merit for whatever we CAN do.

For there is no forgiveness outside Christ.

Again, says you. Well... Says your theology. My theology says that God never said such a thing.

 

[shortfade2]

My pleasure.
Because he is only useful for your theology. In mine, he was just a man. He wasn't Christ, or anointed. He isn't "son of God." He's just a Jew, and not a very good one, at that.
Nonsense. God never demanded perfection. God knows that we aren't perfect, and never commanded us to do more than our best. We do what we are capable of, and God will worry about anything else.
Says you. The law isn't there to "give guilt." The law is there to give merit for whatever we CAN do.
Again, says you. Well... Says your theology. My theology says that God never said such a thing.

So jews never did sacrifice animals to God to repay their sins?
God never damanded perfection? Which is why he banished Adam and Eve from Eden when they disobeyed him? You follow the law pretty well. You think you can get to heaven on your own?

 

[Harmonious]

So jews never did sacrifice animals to God to repay their sins?

Of course we did. But that isn't the only way to get forgiveness from sins.

God never damanded perfection? Which is why he banished Adam and Eve from Eden when they disobeyed him?

I imagine it had far more to do with the fact that they didn't take responsibilities for their actions and rather placed blame on anyone besides themselves than it did for eating the wrong piece of fruit.

You follow the law pretty well. You think you can get to heaven on your own?

Yup. God willing.

 

[shortfade2]

So, you can get to heaven all on your own with your own good deeds, without any need, and all getting to heaven is about is deeds?

 

[Harmonious]

So, you can get to heaven all on your own with your own good deeds, without any need, and all getting to heaven is about is deeds?

Yup.

As long as we work hard, be as ethical as humanly possible, and do what God commands us to do to the best of our ability, then yes. Absolutely.

As a matter of fact, I believe a person would have to work very hard to be evil to find themselves in a place of eternal torment. Like Nebuchadnezzar. Like Hadrian. Like Chelminicky. Like Hitler.

Somebody who is the best person they can be, but adopts the wrong religion is still bound for a happy place. It might not be as happy as if they chose the right religion, but hey - happy is happy.

 

[Poisonshady313]

So, you can get to heaven all on your own with your own good deeds, without any need, and all getting to heaven is about is deeds?

Yup.

Life is about living... not about dying. Dying happens, so you do what you can to do the right thing before it's over.

David said "What gain is there in my death, in my descent to the pit? Will the dust acknowledge You? Will it declare Your truth?

Antigonos of Socho, who received the tradition from Simon the Just, used to say," be not like servants who serve their master with the thought of reward; but rather be like servants who serve their master without thought of reward, and let reverence for God be upon you."

If you base your faith and behavior on how it gets you into heaven, you're sorely missing the point.

 

[Harmonious]

Yup.

Life is about living... not about dying. Dying happens, so you do what you can to do the right thing before it's over.

David said "What gain is there in my death, in my descent to the pit? Will the dust acknowledge You? Will it declare Your truth?

Antigonos of Socho, who received the tradition from Simon the Just, used to say," be not like servants who serve their master with the thought of reward; but rather be like servants who serve their master without thought of reward, and let reverence for God be upon you."

If you base your faith and behavior on how it gets you into heaven, you're sorely missing the point.

:clap

I REALLY like how you put this.

 

[free spirit]

Originally Posted by Poisonshady313
Yup.

Life is about living... not about dying. Dying happens, so you do what you can to do the right thing before it's over.

David said "What gain is there in my death, in my descent to the pit? Will the dust acknowledge You? Will it declare Your truth?

Antigonos of Socho, who received the tradition from Simon the Just, used to say," be not like servants who serve their master with the thought of reward; but rather be like servants who serve their master without thought of reward, and let reverence for God be upon you."

If you base your faith and behavior on how it gets you into heaven, you're sorely missing the point.

In the New Testament your idea is more detailed. for we read in Ephesians

Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart as to Christ,
not by way of eye service, as men-pleases, but as slaves of Christ doing the will of God from the heart.
with good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men,
knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free.
And, masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with him.

 

[Ben Masada]

uhh. The 500 people said they had seen him. It was written in 4 books, and not to mention that his body was never found.

Perhaps he never even existed. But go ahead and show me a quotation in the NT about those 500 you claim SAID they had seen him. You can't. So, why don't you take us out of the misery by declaring that Jesus' resurrection is possible only by faith? We have no argument against faith. Faith needs no evidence, since it is based on suppositions.

 

[free spirit]

Perhaps he never even existed. But go ahead and show me a quotation in the NT about those 500 you claim SAID they had seen him. You can't. So, why don't you take us out of the misery by declaring that Jesus' resurrection is possible only by faith? We have no argument against faith. Faith needs no evidence, since it is based on suppositions.

Yes all Faiths at first are based on supposition, for I too had faith on what my denomination and my family had taught me.
But as I grown up I knew that I was not what the doctrine required of me but i kept on doing my best and hoping that God would have mercy on me.
But thirty years ago at the age of 36 I heard for the first time Jesus and the word of God preached from the bible; I cannot explain to you in details what took place within my mind.
But from that time I know my faith is no longer a supposition, it became a fact. And not only that but I have grown in the knowledge and understanding of the Holy one. proverbs 9: 10.

 

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by Poisonshady313
Yup.

Life is about living... not about dying. Dying happens, so you do what you can to do the right thing before it's over.

David said "What gain is there in my death, in my descent to the pit? Will the dust acknowledge You? Will it declare Your truth?

Antigonos of Socho, who received the tradition from Simon the Just, used to say," be not like servants who serve their master with the thought of reward; but rather be like servants who serve their master without thought of reward, and let reverence for God be upon you."

If you base your faith and behavior on how it gets you into heaven, you're sorely missing the point.

In the New Testament your idea is more detailed. for we read in Ephesians

Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart as to Christ,
not by way of eye service, as men-pleases, but as slaves of Christ doing the will of God from the heart.
with good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men,
knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free.
And, masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with him.

Interesting.

You DO know that we only use the Christian Scriptures as a point of reference to understand what it is that YOU believe, and it otherwise holds no meaning for us, right?

 

[free spirit]

Interesting.

You DO know that we only use the Christian Scriptures as a point of reference to understand what it is that YOU believe, and it otherwise holds no meaning for us, right?

Yes I know that you do not like to grow up, you like to be in kindergarten, believe fairytale and everyone should take notice of you, for you are the chosen people of God.
You also have a promise from God of a block of land, therefore no matter how much blood has to be spilled for it, you must possess that land. You should realize that you have made your God an unsuccessful real estate agent.
The New Testament will tell you that the promise is not a block of land but it is the grace of God in the form of the Holy Spirit; and that promise has been fulfilled for Jesus of Nazareth a Jew was glorified and has received the Holy Spirit, which he has poured in the heart to whomever would receive him.

 

[Harmonious]

Yes I know that you do not like to grow up, you like to be in kindergarten, believe fairytale and everyone should take notice of you, for you are the chosen people of God.

That's hardly fair. How are any of the stories of the miracles of Jesus less "fairytale" like than anything that is in the Old Testament? If anything, it is "like being in kindergarten" for you to decide you have NO obligations but looking to this miracle man to be your be all and end all.

No Jew asks that anyone stand up "take notice" of us. We merely live life and follow the commandments, loving God and man. If anything, it sounds like you are jealous of Jews because you are not part of the "chosen people of God."

Childish much?

You also have a promise from God of a block of land, therefore no matter how much blood has to be spilled for it, you must possess that land. You should realize that you have made your God an unsuccessful real estate agent.

Considering how friendly our non-Jewish neighbors have been to us over the course of history, wanting a place to be able to live peaceably without being slaughtered by our neighbors for being "Christ-killers" or whatever isn't that unreasonable.

God is not at all an unsuccessful real estate agent. He promised Jews the land conditionally. If we live according to His laws, we will not only be permitted to live there, we would be invincible. But maybe you ignored that part of the Old Testament, as that is too inconvenient, too fairytale like for you. But that is what God promised. Unless you think that God's promises, too, are only a fairytale.

The New Testament will tell you that the promise is not a block of land but it is the grace of God in the form of the Holy Spirit;

Then you obviously didn't pay too much attention to what God's promise was in the OT. God promised peace, prosperity, health, wealth, progeny, and all manners of blessing. If you look at all that God promised the Jews in the OT and only see the blessing of land, you really didn't look very hard.

and that promise has been fulfilled for Jesus of Nazareth a Jew was glorified and has received the Holy Spirit, which he has poured in the heart to whomever would receive him.

Now, THAT is a fairytale if I ever heard one.

 

[free spirit]

That's hardly fair. How are any of the stories of the miracles of Jesus less "fairytale" like than anything that is in the Old Testament? If anything, it is "like being in kindergarten" for you to decide you have NO obligations but looking to this miracle man to be your be all and end all.

Christians believe in the Old Testament, And its main message is that the Christ was going to come, the prophecy in the scriptures points him out. The present Jews are the children of Esau who depreciated the blessing; The children of Jacob the true Jews and appreciators of the blessing believed in him.

No Jew asks that anyone stand up "take notice" of us. We merely live life and follow the commandments, loving God and man. If anything, it sounds like you are jealous of Jews because you are not part of the "chosen people of God."

You are dreaming; the fact is that you are no different, in your midst there are murderers of peace lowing prime ministers, thief's and corrupt people in government, greed is prominent among Jews, you are following the golden calf of idolatry like the rest of the world; With the added sin of claiming to be the "chosen people of God"
Childish much?

Considering how friendly our non-Jewish neighbors have been to us over the course of history, wanting a place to be able to live peaceably without being slaughtered by our neighbors for being "Christ-killers" or whatever isn't that unreasonable.

Your non-Jewish neighbor have been unkind to you because of your hypocrisy, they were reflecting the anger of God for it is written in the book of Malachi 1: 2, " I have loved Jacob; but I have hated Esau"
No is not unreasonable for you to have a place, but from the beginning you sort to gain that place by steeling it from others, God does not work that way, if he wanted you to have it he would prosper you in that place, by winning for you the favors of your neighbors.

God is not at all an unsuccessful real estate agent. He promised Jews the land conditionally. If we live according to His laws, we will not only be permitted to live there, we would be invincible.

Well can you see now, you have not met the conditions of God YET, and you never will, for no one can live according to the law. "WE WILL BE INVINCIBLE," this is the arrogance of fleshly people it will be yet again your downfall. Only the love of CHRIST in you will make you INVINCIBLE

But maybe you ignored that part of the Old Testament, as that is too inconvenient, too fairytale like for you. But that is what God promised. Unless you think that God's promises, too, are only a fairytale.

You are greatly mistaken for the promises of God are all true in the spirit

Then you obviously didn't pay too much attention to what God's promise was in the OT. God promised peace, prosperity, health, wealth, progeny, and all manners of blessing. If you look at all that God promised the Jews in the OT and only see the blessing of land, you really didn't look very hard.

If you had the gift of the Holy Spirit in your hart you would certainly know what the true riches are.

 

[shortfade2]

harmonious, all of your arguments do not come close to free spirit, leave arguing against Christianity up to Ben Masada. How do I give you Frubals, FS?