Depression an evil spirit ?

[Storm]

As someone who has been involved in the successful treatment of over 100 depressed souls, I can honestly say that you are in your conclusion that my statements above are incorrect. Depression stems from perspective on life. Change the perspective to a more fitting one, and depression is easy to combat.

If you had that much experience with the mentally ill, you would know better. Clinical depression is not a simple case of the blues that you can just snap out of.

 

[TheKnight]

If you had that much experience with the mentally ill, you would know better. Clinical depression is not a simple case of the blues that you can just snap out of.

Maybe, maybe not. My experience tells me that it's different from person to person. For one person, helping them out of depression is easier and for others it is more difficult. Either way, it's difficult and it's not something that anyone can just snap out of.

My point was that I don't think it is a mental illness (or an evil spirit for that matter). Mental Illness denotes that there is a mental problem. I think that it's better to look at it as a mental state of being which leads to depression. It's not a problem unless you see depression as bad or unnatural. The vast majority of depressed people do not have some sort of chemical imbalance that makes them depressed.

 

[Storm]

Maybe, maybe not. My experience tells me that it's different from person to person. For one person, helping them out of depression is easier and for others it is more difficult. Either way, it's difficult and it's not something that anyone can just snap out of.

So, you admit that it's not a simple matter of changing one's perspective?

My point was that I don't think it is a mental illness (or an evil spirit for that matter).

And we're back to you not knowing what you're talking about.

Mental Illness denotes that there is a mental problem. I think that it's better to look at it as a mental state of being which leads to depression.

Dude, I was 8 years old. 8. It's a mental illness.

It's not a problem unless you see depression as bad or unnatural.

It IS bad. Not unnatural, but bad.

The vast majority of depressed people do not have some sort of chemical imbalance that makes them depressed.

Source, please.

 

[TheKnight]

So, you admit that it's not a simple matter of changing one's perspective?

Yes.

And we're back to you not knowing what you're talking about.

I feel it's more a matter of psychology. Not necessarily a matter of physical chemical imbalances.

Dude, I was 8 years old. 8. It's a mental illness.

I would be suspect of whoever diagnosed you. I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but there is this mass corruption (based mostly on misunderstanding) in the world of child psychology. I would never have diagnosed an 8 year old with clinical depression. And I definitely wouldn't have prescribed drugs to such a child for that clinical depression. Anyone who does so should be investigated.

It IS bad. Not unnatural, but bad.

I think I'd agree. Something about the words mental illness...I simply don't like using them. They're not...specific enough.

Source, please.

The fact that there is little to no evidence that depression is the result of chemical imbalance in the brain. We don't know enough about the brain to know what the manifestations would be of certain chemical changes within it. We thought we did, but more recent experiments have changed that thinking. The waters are much more murky now with recent experimentation (granted, not done on humans, but on animals).

Perhaps the biggest evidence is that medication usually doesn't help fight the problem, but the symptoms. If we knew that the problem itself was chemical imbalance then depression should be curable by medication. It isn't and that is perhaps the greatest evidence for my claim.

 

[Storm]

I would be suspect of whoever diagnosed you. I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but there is this mass corruption (based mostly on misunderstanding) in the world of child psychology. I would never have diagnosed an 8 year old with clinical depression. And I definitely wouldn't have prescribed drugs to such a child for that clinical depression. Anyone who does so should be investigated.

I wasn't diagnosed until I was in my twenties and on the verge of suicide. Guess what pulled me out of it?

 

[TheKnight]

I wasn't diagnosed until I was in my twenties and on the verge of suicide.

So how do you know you had it since you were 8?

Guess what pulled me out of it?

What pulled you out of it?

 

[Storm]

So how do you know you had it since you were 8?

Because I know what it feels like, and I felt it then.

What pulled you out of it?

Medication.

 

[Sunstone]

The old fashioned thinking in psychology -- thinking typical of the 60s and 70s -- was that children could not be depressed. This has since been shown to be false and instead it is now recognized that children can indeed be depressed. Their symptoms, however, vary a bit from the symptoms of depression in adults.

 

[TheKnight]

Because I know what it feels like, and I felt it then.

I see.

Medication.

That could be explained by the Placebo affect. You receive something that you believe will make you better, and it does.

In any case, I won't dispute your claim. I don't have nearly enough experience (though I do have experience) to say that medication doesn't help. And obviously I couldn't say that medication didn't help you because I have no way of knowing that.

All in all, at this point there are too many factors to know with reasonable certainty that medication doesn't help. I am fairly certain, however, that a person could be cured of their depression without medication.

 

[Storm]

That could be explained by the Placebo affect. You receive something that you believe will make you better, and it does.

If it were the placebo effect, it wouldn't have taken three years of trying different medications to find the right combination.

I am fairly certain, however, that a person could be cured of their depression without medication.

Some can. Others can't.

 

[TheKnight]

The old fashioned thinking in psychology -- thinking typical of the 60s and 70s -- was that children could not be depressed. This has since been shown to be false and instead it is now recognized that children can indeed be depressed. Their symptoms, however, vary a bit from the symptoms of depression in adults.

A child's psychology is not developed enough to conclude that their "depression" is anything more than a phase of mindset. It's possible that they can be depressed, but knowing it is difficult because their psychology isn't fully developed.

Some can. Others can't.

Eh, I think that is a matter of opinion.

 

[Sunstone]

A child's psychology is not developed enough to conclude that their "depression" is anything more than a phase of mindset. It's possible that they can be depressed, but knowing it is difficult because their psychology isn't fully developed.

Nice theory. But I doubt it reflects clinical reality.

 

[TheKnight]

Nice theory. But I doubt it reflects clinical reality.

I know, from involvement in the field of psychology, that it does. Psychology in general is a field in which we once made numerous conclusions that we are recently discovering to be wrong. Maybe it is wrong for us to say that children cannot be depressed, but to diagnose and prescribe medicine for a child is...it's risky because we can't know for sure (without the passage of time) that a child is depressed and not experiencing a phase.

 

[Erebus]

Since I'm lucky enough have PTSD and chronic depression I've had to learn various methods of dealing with my life. Medication helps if you are prescribed the appropriate anti-depressant but it loses much of it's effectiveness without a conscious effort from the individual. It's a constant struggle but you rid yourself of the worst elements of depression.
Here's a couple of tips I found useful.
1. Make yourself smile even if you don't feel like smiling. Not only does this improve the way other people react to you, it also helps you feel better about yourself (I think it's linked to releasing endorphins or something).
2. Spend time with friends even if you'd rather be alone. Sometimes talking about your feelings doesn't cut it and you need to go out and at least pretend to have fun, eventually you'll genuinely begin to enjoy yourself.
3. Exercise. Not only does it help you get in shape and improve your looks (thereby helping you feel good about yourself) it also releases endorphins and takes your mind off your life.
4.Watch something funny. Comedy central has been my best friend for quite some time now. I also find that comedy musicians such as wierd Al, Steven Lynch and bands like murderdolls can be worth listening to (although not everybody sees the humour in murderdolls).
5. Put down the bible. I spent so many wasted days praying to God to help me and it did nothing.I only started feeling better about myself when I renounced God and christianity. I'm not saying you should renounce god, I'm just saying that religion can add complications that you just don't need while you're depressed.

Best of luck to you

 

[Heneni]

Hello my name is matt im 28 my initial question is depression really a mental illness or is it a kind of evil spirit. i have been having problems with depression since around 11 and being addicted to every drug then going through rehab, back to sober to find myslef in the same place of anger fear and i regret my whol life. i really want to find some pple to talk to thats why i came here. At first i thought i was an alcoholic then an addict, but i truly feel neither the only reasons ive done those things was the pain and the regret of being worthless. i have a fiance and 2 kids and i feel i dont have the capacity to love anything. Im lost and i dont understand i have everything one can ask for, i pray to God I thank God and i ask Him for help and forgiveness. Yes lately that has dwindled but i have no interest anymore the last two yrs have been hard i decided if nothing happens by the time im 30 im out, im done. I know life isnt fair and i have been dealt some crappy hands. If anyone has advice or wants to talk please and i thank you .

Depression can be both. We only need to look at David and Job and at times jeremiah when they were at their wits end and thought its all but over. Saul I believe was one of those men who was afflicted by a demon of depression. David, Job and Jeremiah were not.

There is a demon of depression and its goal is to destroy you. Other times we face great human trials and feel that its not worth going on and that is when we face our greatest challenges.

Humans have this ability to paint a mental picture in their minds of what they think success is. And then when they have not been able to realise the dream they feel like all is lost, they are hopeless and useless, life just seems to make a point of dealing them the wrong hand. And it is not that we are incapable or not able, its just life just does not 'co-operate'

Every christian has to come to the point where they realise that there is nothing on this planet that gives them hope, nothing here that gives them lasting joy. Its called dying to the flesh. And god is faithful to make all sorts of trials come your way in order for you to loose all hope in the things of this earth, so that you can set your hope securely on him.

God is not upset when our lives fall apart, god is pleased when we come to the end of ourselves. At these times in our life we might be seriously offended with god, who does not seem to work all things together for our good. And many christians go through this kind of thing. We have expectations of god. Expectation is a disspointment ready to happen. Part of understanding god, is understanding what we can really hope for. A good example of ruined expectations, is the prosperity teaching, which is just a strawberry flavour of the worlds wisdom of how to be successfull in this life. And when god does not act like a genie in a bottle we are confused and loose hope. Hope deffered makes the heart sick. And so we have to have our hopes and dreams in the right place in order to not fall prey to life's unexpected nasty twists and turns.

But it seems in your case notmuchtime, you feel that you have all that you want, and yet have no pleasure in it. Perhaps you feel numb inside? I think it would be a good idea to determine if your depression is due to a chemical inbalance in the mind. If everything up there is fine, then you have come to the point that you realise that there is nothing here that can provide lasting joy. And you would be right. In your case, perhaps the hope you had, was the hope that if you have a life that has everything you could want, you would be happy. But you are not. So there must be something missing...... In my opinion that something is a relationship with god, who takes away the burdens of this world, in whatever form they might present themselves, and frees us to have a life in Him.

I also believe that there are times when our spirit yearns for God, and when we deny it this opportunity it results in depression.

May god bless you and keep you! God never quits on us. Dont quit on Him.


Heneni

 

[themadhair]

@ TheKnight

You are not just wrong on this topic, but potentially dangerously wrong.

Depression, as is evidence by treatments that cure depression, is the result of a lack of purposeful understanding or deliberate focus in a person's life. In essence, it comes from a mindset in which a person does not value what they have in life for it's true value. It can also come from a sense of purposelessness.

This is so wrong that I really, truly, and genuinely hope you have never dispensed this advice to any person with suffering from a real condition. If this were true then why is it that there biological differences between those with the condition and those without? Some research has shown that the pituitary gland, the hippocampus, cortical volume, etc.

It does not mean that you have chemical imbalances in the brain. Saying that depression is the direct result of chemical imbalance is almost as bad as saying it's the result of an evil spirit.

Do red pimples cause you to have the measles? No, it is a symptom.
Does a non-fading rash cause you to have meningitis? No it is a symptom.
Does a reduction in serotonin cause you to have clinical depression? No, it is a symptom.

As someone who has been involved in the successful treatment of over 100 depressed souls, I can honestly say that you are in your conclusion that my statements above are incorrect.

So, according to you, the act of simply feeling down is depression? This is so wrong it is almost scary.

Depression stems from perspective on life. Change the perspective to a more fitting one, and depression is easy to combat.

So a ‘perspective in life’ can alter one’s brain chemistry and neurological development to the point where MRI’s can detect significant biological differences? Good luck selling that idea.

My experience tells me that it's different from person to person.

It should be noted that it appears from your comments that your experience has been badly discredited by your apparently inability to distinguish between ‘the blues’ and an actual case of clinical depression.

My point was that I don't think it is a mental illness (or an evil spirit for that matter).

And the vast body of relevant research completely and utterly shows you to be false on this.

The vast majority of depressed people do not have some sort of chemical imbalance that makes them depressed.

If those people do not have the symptoms of depression then they are not suffering from depression. Unless of course you cannot differentiate between ‘the blues’ and depression.

The fact that there is little to no evidence that depression is the result of chemical imbalance in the brain.

There is no evidence whatsoever that measles is the result of red pimples. There is no evidence whatsoever that a non-fading rash causes meningitis. And, in the same vein of recognising that diseases cause symptoms and not the other way about, there is no evidence whatsoever that chemical imbalances cause depression. How can you speak with such authority on this issue when you are utterly incapable of understanding the difference between a cause and a symptom?

We don't know enough about the brain to know what the manifestations would be of certain chemical changes within it. We thought we did, but more recent experiments have changed that thinking. The waters are much more murky now with recent experimentation (granted, not done on humans, but on animals).

Now this is complete and utter bollox being told by a person who hasn’t got the first clue about what he is talking about. New MRI technology is allowing researches to detect even more of the biological differences that underlie these conditions – anyone claiming otherwise is simply ignoring the relevant medical literature and talking out of their cake-hole.

Perhaps the biggest evidence is that medication usually doesn't help fight the problem, but the symptoms.

Ermm…most medication fights the symptoms. Flu medicine treats the symptoms for example. With the exception of anti-virals and antibiotics, pretty much most medicine is symptom orientated.

If we knew that the problem itself was chemical imbalance then depression should be curable by medication. It isn't and that is perhaps the greatest evidence for my claim.

This is great evidence that you don’t know what you are talking about. To take an example, someone with clinical depression might be experiencing suicidal tendencies (not uncommon unfortunately). In such a case medication to improve mood (such as by raising serotonin for example) might be prescribed. The reason for this should be obvious – without such medication the patient could likely cause harm to themselves. This is typical of the sort of treatment someone with this condition might receive. Sometimes the only thing that can be done for people is to treat symptoms. This isn’t uncommon in the field of medicine, diabetes being an example.

That could be explained by the Placebo affect.

Lrn2DoubleBlind
Lrn2DoubleBlind
Lrn2DoubleBlind

I am fairly certain, however, that a person could be cured of their depression without medication.

Based upon nothing more than gut-feeling I suspect.

I know, from involvement in the field of psychology, that it does.

I don’t suppose you could point to some peer-reviewed research for that? I won’t be holding my breath though.

The bottom line is that mental illnesses are demonstrable conditions, and in some cases required treatment. You misrepresenting the science on this is extremely irresponsible and potentially dangerous for any poor-sods who mistake your ignorant ramblings for medical advice. I’m not one bit surprise that Storm was ****** at your proclamation that depression was a ‘lack of purposeful understanding or deliberate focus in a person's life’.

The information you are dispensing is simply wrong and potentially dangerous.

 

[Storm]

Thank you, themadhair. :hug:

 

[TheKnight]

The information you are dispensing is simply wrong and potentially dangerous.

My goal in posting within this thread was not to be giving medical advice. Obviously the best route to take would be to see a doctor rather than someone who is talking in a thread on a religious forum on the internet.

My goal in posting within this thread was to offer my opinion on the cause of depression. I do not believe that (in the majority of cases) it is the result of chemical imbalances or an evil spirit. I was not attempting to offer medical advice.

 

[Father Heathen]

"Mental illness" is not accurate terminology. Why are we so keen on describing the unknown aspects of the mind as mental illnesses?

Depression, as is evidence by treatments that cure depression, is the result of a lack of purposeful understanding or deliberate focus in a person's life. In essence, it comes from a mindset in which a person does not value what they have in life for it's true value. It can also come from a sense of purposelessness.

It does not mean that you have chemical imbalances in the brain. Saying that depression is the direct result of chemical imbalance is almost as bad as saying it's the result of an evil spirit.

On what exactly are you basing this little claim of yours on, or is it just another unfounded nonsensical assumption? Are you a professional psychologist who has extensively studied the field, or is your opinion based on something like religious drivel?

 

[Mr Cheese]

As someone who has been involved in the successful treatment of over 100 depressed souls, I can honestly say that you are in your conclusion that my statements above are incorrect. Depression stems from perspective on life. Change the perspective to a more fitting one, and depression is easy to combat.

You're wrong....

SOME forms of depression are just as you describe

MANY are actual medical conditions.

So actually you are very wrong.

Ever heard of Bi polar for example? You really think that is just a person being "upset"?

puhlease