All-Powerful God Always Right

[Kilgore Trout]

I may depart from many fellow atheists in this regard, but if god made itself known to me in a way where I was completely convinced of its existence (god being an entity which created the universe, including us, and was all-powerful), and god commanded me to do something, I would do it.

This would be god's universe, and its rules would supercede any limited ideas I had formed myself. Regardless of whether I thought it was right or wrong, moral or immoral, if god told me to do it, it would be the correct thing to do. I would have no reasonable basis to resist the will of the creator and ruler of the universe, whether I understood the reasons or not.

Do any other atheists/non-theists agree with this viewpoint? If not, what would your basis be for resisting the wishes of god? Why do you think your morals would trump god's? What if each command was backed by a threat of eternal damnation/pain/suffering for non-compliance - would that change your response? What if each command was backed by a promise of eternal bliss/joy/ecstasy for compliance - would that change your response?

 

[Sunstone]

I disagree. I'd hope to follow my bliss, regardless of what god said.

 

[Wandered Off]

Would you be convinced it was moral or just comply out of self preservation?

 

[Father Heathen]

I would always put my principles first, even if they conflicted with the will of god.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Would you be convinced it was moral or just comply out of self preservation?

My morals would obviously be meaningless in the grand scheme of things. The morals I formed based on my exceedingly limited viewpoint, would be meaningless to god, and therefore, incorrect, insofar as god, the universe, and god's plans were concerned.

Being a creation of god, and part of the universe, whatever god's plans/commandments were for me, would be correct, even if I disagreed with them or didn't understand them from my limited perspective.

 

[Alceste]

Yep, I'd have to place my own values and ethics first. Not to say I couldn't be persuaded to take a particular course of action - surely an omnipotent god would be capable of putting forward a convincing argument - but as anyone who knows me will tell you, I'm not one who simply does what I'm told, no matter what the consequences or who is doing the telling.

 

[Willamena]

Do any other atheists/non-theists agree with this viewpoint?

It's not for me.

If not, what would your basis be for resisting the wishes of god?

I am.

Why do you think your morals would trump god's?

If this god's morals are not my morals, then it's not god.

What if each command was backed by a threat of eternal damnation/pain/suffering for non-compliance - would that change your response? What if each command was backed by a promise of eternal bliss/joy/ecstasy for compliance - would that change your response?

Bring it on.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Yep, I'd have to place my own values and ethics first. Not to say I couldn't be persuaded to take a particular course of action - surely an omnipotent god would be capable of putting forward a convincing argument - but as anyone who knows me will tell you, I'm not one who simply does what I'm told, no matter what the consequences.

Neither am I, by any stretch. However, I see this as vastly different than exercising my personal psychology in our limited world. We're talking the creator and ruler of the universe - we're talking about eternity.

It's a nice thought to say I'd stick to my moral compass, but really try to open yourself up to the scale of the situation and the fact that your moral compass might be incorrect in a larger scheme.

 

[Alceste]

The observation comes to mind that a lot of people are currently absolutely convinced of God's existence believe they are acting on his orders, and that many (if not most)of them are up to no good, to say the very least. So if I woke up tomorrow morning with an unshakeable conviction that God exists and wants me to do something for him, I'd be very worried unless that thing was in harmony with my pre-existing values. If it wasn't, I think I'd probably check myself into the nuthouse so I don't end up posting threads about how Obama is the antichrist and Neda Soltari wants us to invade Iran, and how I simply can't even type at all unless I am definitely channeling the will of God.

 

[Wandered Off]

I might comply for the cookie, but like Alceste, I'd assume an all-powerful being would be able to convince me or alter my mind. For that matter, I'm pretty sure an all-powerful being would have no need to command me to do anything, so I might doubt its omnipotence on that basis. I might still comply because I'm pain-averse, but I'd have a hard time shaking the thought that such threats shouldn't be necessary.

 

[Alceste]

Neither am I, by any stretch. However, I see this as vastly different than exercising my personal psychology in our limited world. We're talking the creator and ruler of the universe - we're talking about eternity.

It's a nice thought to say I'd stick to my moral compass, but really try to open yourself up to the scale of the situation and the fact that your moral compass might be incorrect in a larger scheme.

So you would not pause for a moment to doubt your sanity?

 

[Alceste]

Just for fun:

"I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bush-god-told-me-to-invade-iraq-509925.html

 

[Erebus]

It would really depend on what the deity asked me to do. If it was something I don't agree with (such as killing a family member... *cough* Abraham and Isaac *cough*) I wouldn't do it. If it was something I thought was worthwhile then yes I probably would do it.
If I was threatened with Hell or promised Heaven then I'd think of it this way... Let's take the example of killing a family member. My rational mind would suggest that a good god would not want me to do this which means either a. this God is evil and should be defied or b. this god is testing me to see If I do the right thing. To kill a family member out of fear or desire is despicable, but to stand up for your principles even in the face of eternal suffering is truly noble and most definitely worthy of heaven.
Even if this god intended to send me to Hell for my disobedience I would probably have the best afterlife ever. Here's a brief list of some of the things you'll get in Hell that won't be found in heaven:

1. Heavy Metal
2. Jack Daniels, Absinthe, Strongbow, Vodka etc etc
3. Porn stars, Strippers, Hookers
4. "Medication"
5. Dita Von Teese (come on, you can't tell me she won't be there)
6. All the decent philosophers
7. All the decent rock stars

Now tell me that doesn't sound like one Hell of a party?

 

[Willamena]

So if I woke up tomorrow morning with an unshakeable conviction that God exists and wants me to do something for him, I'd be very worried unless that thing was in harmony with my pre-existing values.

That says it all, right there. If there is a creator, and if my values are not already informed by "his", then "he" is not the creator.

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm confident that if there really was a god, he would give me a 'high five'.

 

[Nanda]

"What does God need with a Starship?"

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So you would not pause for a moment to doubt your sanity?

The OP is talking about after that point. The process of me being absolutely convinced that it was, in fact, god, would involve me analyzing every potential simpler rational explanation first.

The assumption is that whatever criteria you need to certain that this being was god, were met.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

The observation comes to mind that a lot of people are currently absolutely convinced of God's existence believe they are acting on his orders, and that many (if not most)of them are up to no good, to say the very least. So if I woke up tomorrow morning with an unshakeable conviction that God exists and wants me to do something for him, I'd be very worried unless that thing was in harmony with my pre-existing values. If it wasn't, I think I'd probably check myself into the nuthouse so I don't end up posting threads about how Obama is the antichrist and Neda Soltari wants us to invade Iran, and how I simply can't even type at all unless I am definitely channeling the will of God.

Obviously, this would be a more likely rational explanation for god talking to you, but the question is assuming that you've gone through, and discounted this possibility.

It would be natural to question this god, if its values weren't in alignment with yours, but wouldn't you have to question the assumptions your views were based on in this situation?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

That says it all, right there. If there is a creator, and if my values are not already informed by "his", then "he" is not the creator.

This doesn't logically follow at all. It may not have a need for your previous values to coincide with its plans. It may be completely irrelevant. What if the only relevance to this god was that you obey its commandments?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I might comply for the cookie, but like Alceste, I'd assume an all-powerful being would be able to convince me or alter my mind. For that matter, I'm pretty sure an all-powerful being would have no need to command me to do anything, so I might doubt its omnipotence on that basis. I might still comply because I'm pain-averse, but I'd have a hard time shaking the thought that such threats shouldn't be necessary.

But, we wouldn't know the reasons why this god did anything it did. Maybe it's not important for it to convince you or alter your mind. Maybe it's important to it that it doesn't do so. Who knows? The fact is that, hypothetically, you're convinced that this is, in fact, god. Do you obey it, regardless of your understanding/feelings?