400 + Kids Taken From Texas FLDS Compound

[zippythepinhead]

I would agree with you but I was speaking literally rather than figuratively. Their believes originated from the same source, historically. But if your are speaking of the validity of their beliefs, in realation to ours, then I would say they broke off and fell away. Their beliefs are a corruption of what they should believe.

The FLDS are descended from apostates of the LDS faith. This group is now on the verge of a living hell. You have their Profit in prison, you have men in various states facing charges of rape, or other sex crimes, and them closing off from the outside ever more. What a mess.

Jeffs is where he belongs, behind bars.
The Lost Boys are a real problem.
The illegally married girls and BOYS are victims here.
Families are torn apart because of multiple prosecutions and children being taken away.

These people need our prayers and perps need to face justice.:wolverine:

 

[Sola'lor]

The FLDS are descended from apostates of the LDS faith. This group is now on the verge of a living hell. You have their Profit in prison, you have men in various states facing charges of rape, or other sex crimes, and them closing off from the outside ever more. What a mess.

Jeffs is where he belongs, behind bars.
The Lost Boys are a real problem.
The illegally married girls and BOYS are victims here.
Families are torn apart because of multiple prosecutions and children being taken away.

These people need our prayers and perps need to face justice.:wolverine:

I agree. I will definatly pray for those innocents. And I will also pray that those abusers will face justice.

 

[jonny]

The government could have prevented this whole situation by not banning polygamy in the first place. When you force people into the shadows and require them to break the laws to practice their religion, they start acting above the law and lose respect for the law.

 

[jonny]

Honestly, I can't help but wonder whether or not there are other motives behind this. Seeing these children bussed away in buses from the local Baptist church and hearing interviews from women who are assisting from the local churches makes me think that the local Southern Evangelicals are just drooling over the chance to "save" these kids. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear what these people are saying when the microphones are turned off.

They'll move from being indoctrinated by one cult to being indoctrinated by another.

Plus, they might be lucky enough to be thrown into the foster care system, and we all know that no children get abused and molested in foster homes.

My heart goes out to these children and any parents who are innocent. I want to protect the children, but I hate seeing guilt by association.

 

[DallasApple]

Honestly, I can't help but wonder whether or not there are other motives behind this. Seeing these children bussed away in buses from the local Baptist church and hearing interviews from women who are assisting from the local churches makes me think that the local Southern Evangelicals are just drooling over the chance to "save" these kids. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear what these people are saying when the microphones are turned off.

They'll move from being indoctrinated by one cult to being indoctrinated by another.

Plus, they might be lucky enough to be thrown into the foster care system, and we all know that no children get abused and molested in foster homes.

My heart goes out to these children and any parents who are innocent. I want to protect the children, but I hate seeing guilt by association.

Im not surprised..Not because they are Mormon..But anytime you give (some men) an excuse to have one girl after another and its under Gods grace your going to get this..Sorry...Wouldnt matter if its legal or not...Even within the "illegal" activities the boys are thrown out(the other innocents) ..So as not to compete for the fresh meat of young girls...The perverts cant get enough ...Its not about God...Its about young girls being used for sex by men pigs...OINK!

Dallas

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The government could have prevented this whole situation by not banning polygamy in the first place. When you force people into the shadows and require them to break the laws to practice their religion, they start acting above the law and lose respect for the law.

Of course they don't have respect for the law.....their religion compels them to force 14-year-old girls to sleep with revolting old men against their will and measure their own self-worth in terms of how many babies they can churn out.

jonny, have you read Under the Banner of Heaven, by Krakaurer? It's a pretty interesting piece of non-fiction about the fundamentalist LDS.

 

[jonny]

Of course they don't have respect for the law.....their religion compels them to force 14-year-old girls to sleep with revolting old men against their will and measure their own self-worth in terms of how many babies they can churn out.

jonny, have you read Under the Banner of Heaven, by Krakaurer? It's a pretty interesting piece of non-fiction about the fundamentalist LDS.

Obviously the child abuse is revolting and disgusting. If it is as rampant as they say, then the children need to be protected, but the accuser has the burden of guilt.

I believe this situation would have been prevented by allowing a legal means whereby these people could marry. If they were able to go down to the county courthouse and get a marriage license like everyone else, then the government would be better prepared to enforce the laws and ensure that the rights of the women were protected. I had ancestors who practiced polygamy. None of them were children. They were all consenting adults. Many of them enjoyed the freedoms and benefits that came along with polygamy.

From the interviews I've seen of former members, this is a recent problem created by recent leadership. This leads me to believe that many of these parents are also innocent victims.

 

[DallasApple]

Of course they don't have respect for the law.....their religion compels them to force 14-year-old girls to sleep with revolting old men against their will and measure their own self-worth in terms of how many babies they can churn out.

jonny, have you read Under the Banner of Heaven, by Krakaurer? It's a pretty interesting piece of non-fiction about the fundamentalist LDS.

Dont forget..If she churns out boys they will not be welcome in Gods land because they(they the boys) might have the NERVE to want to be with one of the girls in marriage..Which would be ONE less for her uncle..

The "religion" is an assurance that a man gets plenty of fresh young brides to have SEX with untill he dies of a heart attack at 80 having sex with a 15 year old(one of his wives)...This is about sex galore with one side gaining (the elder men)

Blessings

Dallas

 

[jonny]

Im not surprised..Not because they are Mormon..But anytime you give (some men) an excuse to have one girl after another and its under Gods grace your going to get this..Sorry...Wouldnt matter if its legal or not...Even within the "illegal" activities the boys are thrown out(the other innocents) ..So as not to compete for the fresh meat of young girls...The perverts cant get enough ...Its not about God...Its about young girls being used for sex by men pigs...OINK!

Dallas

Then arrest the men, not the women and children.

 

[jonny]

Dont forget..If she churns out boys they will not be welcome in Gods land because they(they the boys) might have the NERVE to want to be with one of the girls in marriage..Which would be ONE less for her uncle..

The "religion" is an assurance that a man gets plenty of fresh young brides to have SEX with untill he dies of a heart attack at 80 having sex with a 15 year old(one of his wives)...This is about sex galore with one side gaining (the elder men)

Blessings

Dallas

Is it? Have you personally lived in the community? If not, how the hell do you know what you're talking about?

A few years ago extensive allegations of sexual abuse by Catholic priests started coming out. I didn't see the government start arresting every parent who practiced the Catholic faith. If one child was taken away from an innocent parent, then that is one child too many. I want the women and children who are being abused to be protected, but I'm sure there are people in there who were practicing their religion within the bounds of the law.

 

[DallasApple]

Then arrest the men, not the women and children.

I 100% agree...The MEN are the ones ruling...

They need to go to prison..Not only for child rape(of girls) but child abandonment..(ejecting the boys onto the street so as not to take thier "new' meat raised farm fresh)

Dallas

 

[jonny]

I 100% agree...The MEN are the ones ruling...

They need to go to prison..Not only for child rape(of girls) but child abandonment..(ejecting the boys onto the street so as not to take thier "new' meat raised farm fresh)

Dallas

The problem I have with these raids is that they will reinforce in the communities that the government is the bad guys. These people need to feel comfortable going to the police or CPS without feeling like everyone who belongs to their religion will be pulled out of their homes because one person sought help.

 

[Katzpur]

Jeesh! I just wish this thread wasn't in the LDS DIR. IT'S NOT ABOUT US!

 

[jonny]

Jeesh! I just wish this thread wasn't in the LDS DIR. IT'S NOT ABOUT US!

Yeah. It isn't really a DIR thread either...

 

[jonny]

Anyone know how the guy who abused this girl this Easter was able to do so from Arizona? And he claims he's never visited the state of Texas in his life. What kind of evidence is required to issue an arrest warrant in Texas?

Compound Horrors - April 8, 2008

Focus of a Raid in Texas Was Living Out of State - New York Times

 

[texan1]

Jonny,

This is not a matter of religious freedom or legalizing polygamy in my opinion. There is no reason for a man to have 7 wives. Freedom of religion should NEVER come before basic human rights. The people living in these compounds were born into this abusive sect, they are brainwashed,they didn't choose it. They have little (if any) access to the outside world and are taught that their leader is a divine prophet and they cannot question his authority. If anyone complains or tries to leave, etc. they can be locked up, beaten, or worse. Leaders may even threaten to harm a woman's children if she disobeyes. Or a Prophet may deem a man "unworthy" for some reason and then "re-assign" his wife or wives and children to another man. They are never allowed to be alone. The atrocities go on and on. As someone pointed out earlier it is a living Hell. The fact that this girl was able to call for help took a tremendous amount of bravery. According to everything I've read the mothers left voluntarily and are being housed with their children.

However, I do agree that you have to be delicate when dealing with children. This is the only life they've ever known and I'm sure they are scared. But because it's the only life they've known doesn't mean they should stay there.

 

[jonny]

This is a matter of religious freedom. The first step to solving the problems with the polygamist churches is to decriminalize polygamy. There was a time where it was illegal to marry someone of a different race. There was a time where it was illegal for two consenting adults of the same sex to engage in sexual activity (it's probably still illegal in some states). There was a time when it was illegal for two consenting adults to have sex outside of marriage. Most of these laws have been overturned. It's time to overturn the bigamy restrictions.

Something fishy is going on with the girl who called for help. First, they don't know where she is. Second, the man who they issued an arrest warrant for has never been in the state of Texas, and definitely wasn't there on Easter Sunday (if you believe the New York Times article). I'm not doubting that there were abuses in the community, and I'm happy if they've been stopped, but we have laws in this country to protect the innocent. You can't barge into a community and take all the children without reasonable evidence that they are in danger. Have you heard the interviews with the women who were children last time the government did this? They still haven't recovered from it.

 

[texan1]

Allowing a man to marry multiple women is not a matter of religious freedom. It is just plain wrong, especially when the women have no say in the matter. Have you not read anything about these communities? Any personal accounts from women who were able to escape it? Or stories from the charities set up to help these people? I suggest you read some of the books that are out there. These strange marriage arrangements may have been by choice in Joseph Smith's day, but that is not how it's practiced now. These are not consenting adults. These are oppressive, abusive communities. There is NO REASON (religious or otherwise) for a man to have 7 wives. If it's a matter of producing more children, that can be accomplished in the same numbers with monogamous couples.

I agree with you that the first raid was a disaster in many respects, but that doesn't mean we should just turn our backs on this. The civil rights in this country also apply to those women.

I'm not trying to turn this into a debate. I just don't agree with you at all and I find it infuriating that people think this kind of thing falls under "religious freedom".

 

[zippythepinhead]

Yeah. It isn't really a DIR thread either...

OP to the rescue. I asked the mods to move it to under general restorationists out of the LDS Dir area so the debate may go on where appropriate. Sorry for starting it here.:sorry1:

 

[jonny]

I'm at the point where I'm going to let Texas prove its case. If the state really has evidence that all 400+ children are being abused, then they did their jobs and they should be applauded.