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400 + Kids Taken From Texas FLDS Compound

Discussion in 'Restorationists DIR' started by zippythepinhead, Apr 8, 2008.

  1. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I don't believe any marriage contract that is between non-consenting adults should be legal. I agree that it is just plain wrong. If all parties are consenting adults, though, I see it differently. (Not that I'd ever want to live that lifestyle myself.)

    Really? Could you explain how one man married to one woman can father seven children in one year? :D

    Would you mind explaining why. Presuming a man and two women all believed in the principle of plural marriage as a religious principle - and voluntarily wished to enter into a marriage contract, why do you find it infuriating that some people would consider it to be a religious freedom? I mean whose business is it really? Provided the man can support both wives and they are good citizens of the community in which they live, I don't understand your "infuriation."
     
  2. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    Polygamy between consenting adults does fall under "religious freedom." Abuse of women and children does not. The abuse should be stopped, and I'm glad that Texas is trying to do something about it. I just want to know that any innocent parents will have their rights protected.
     
  3. Reverend Rick

    Reverend Rick Frubal Whore
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    I'm just glad we did not have another Waco on our hands. Remember the Clinton administration's Janet Reno burning women and children in Texas? I guess killing them was better than abusing them in some folks eyes. Before you jump on me, Janet Reno said she would take full responsibility for her decisions.
     
  4. texan1

    texan1 Active Member

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    "Really? Could you explain how one man married to one woman can father seven children in one year? :D"

    What I mean is 7 women and 7 men could have the same amount of children as 7 women and 1 man. 7 monogamous couples. It's not like there is a shortage of men or something. The population of men to women is roughly 1:1. Why should one man have them all??? :) This leaves a lot of fellows out who turn into the "Lost Boys" problem.

    "Presuming a man and two women all believed in the principle of plural marriage as a religious principle - and voluntarily wished to enter into a marriage contract, why do you find it infuriating that some people would consider it to be a religious freedom?"

    Yes. I agree with you on this. But I'm talking about these FLDS sects. I think people wrongly assume that this compound is some sort of recreation of HBO's "Big Love" and that's just not the case. Religion or not, their version of the lifestyle is wrong.
     
  5. texan1

    texan1 Active Member

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    And I agree Jonny that it is up to the authorities now. I hope it is handled carefully.
     
  6. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I could not possibly agree more.
     
  7. Mr Spinkles

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    They haven't arrested the women and children. In fact, 133 women left the compound voluntarily.

    I agree that there is no reason polygamy or polyandry should be illegal between consenting adults.

    But polygamy is not the crime some of these men are being charged with. The crimes they are being charged with are verbal, physical, and sexual abuses of women and children, which are not defensible modes of religious expression.
     
  8. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    They left with their children, which is what I'd expect any parent to do if given the choice. The state is looking for foster families for these children, so I'm assuming that the state doesn't feel these women are fit to be parents. Once the kids are gone, I'd expect that the women will go back to their homes.

    Actually, the men haven't been charged with any of those crimes yet. They've been accused of them by the state and the media. I'm curious to see how they will go about pinning the crimes on specific men. Hopefully, if a child or woman has been abused, then they will eventually feel comfortable talking with state investigators about it. I don't see how the state will be able to charge every man in the church without pinning evidence to specific people though.

    What laws are there about doing medical examinations on the girls who are in state custody? I think that's the place to start to determine whether or not sexual abuse is rampant. You'd be able to figure it out pretty quick, I assume.
     
  9. texan1

    texan1 Active Member

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    The other thing that makes this difficult is the fact that most of these girls are born into this and have little knowledge of the outside world. The "Prophet" recently lowered the age of marriage to 14. These young women are married off to an older man and then expected to have sex with them on the wedding night. Though it's terrible, they may not even recognize it as abuse since it's sanctioned by the Prophet and they don't know any other kind of life. Some of these girls must be so confused. I agree - hopefully medical examinations will be part of this investigation.
     
  10. zippythepinhead

    zippythepinhead Your Tax Dollars At Work

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    If abuse has been done, then it is time for the Texas State authorities to take this underage marriage party down:eek:
     
  11. .lava

    .lava Veteran Member

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    they should be..
     
  12. Mr Spinkles

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    Good point. In any case, innocent women and children are not being arrested, as you advised.

    Okay, they are being accused, no one has yet been charged. I think it's safe to say there will be charges, since it will be difficult to explain how all those little girls got pregnant without a crime being committed. In any case, as I said, the reason the authorities are getting involved is not because the group is polygamous but because they are abusing women and children.

    Hopefully. There's always DNA analysis, too.
     
  13. Sola'lor

    Sola'lor LDSUJC

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  14. texan1

    texan1 Active Member

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    Good God Sola'lor. Everything I've ever read about these people literally brings me to tears. Just horrible. I hope they are able to break this thing up and salvage these people's lives.
     
  15. texan1

    texan1 Active Member

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    Sorry to keep posting here. I feel like a big mouth. It's just that I've been following this story for a few years and I just feel frustrated that it has taken so long for something to be done. Here is a link to a story from 2005 for example. When you hear the statements from some of the men in these sects (in this case Jack Cooke) it is creepy. Because of the way they were brought up, they don't seem to see anything wrong with intermarriage, incest or fondling young girls, etc. It's "part of their religion". Here is an example:

    ABC News: Former Polygamous Sect Member Confronts Past
     
  16. zippythepinhead

    zippythepinhead Your Tax Dollars At Work

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    I have Sol. This supposedly is their dedication to God. How can you commit unspeakable crimes, if they happened, in a house dedicated to worship??:(
     
  17. .lava

    .lava Veteran Member

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    they are not just abusing girls. they are abusing the concept of religion. lust without limits is actually opposite of what religion really is. religion takes people out of dirt but these people willingly dive in it. i am glad they are separated from any other churches in United States. cos they are disgrace to e n t i r e human race.
     
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  18. Sola'lor

    Sola'lor LDSUJC

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    Amen!
     
  19. trinity2359

    trinity2359 Active Member

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    I haven't really been following this case since I find it most disturbing. But my husband was talking about it and kept referring to the 'Mormons', making me cringe everytime. I was a Salt Lake LDS Mormon for several years and this group has NOTHING do with them! And when people say 'Mormon' everyone thinks 'Salt Lake'. Ugh! My heart and prayers go out to the victims. My husband commented that the 'Mormon' term would be more pronounced in the media if there was a certain candidate still in the presidential race.

    And Johnny, your 'benefit of the doubt' and sympathies with the group make me raise an eyebrow or two. I understand your desire to permit poly marriages, but this group probably shouldn't be your poster child.
     
  20. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

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    Texas authorities have interviewed the man whose arrest warrant sparked this whole ordeal and...they left him in Arizona. This gives support to the man's claim that he hasn't been in Texas since the 1970s: FLDS: Texas Rangers say Barlow may not be their man - Salt Lake Tribune

    So, now what? If there is abuse, the state should present its case. Currently, I haven't seen any evidence that warrants the removal of 400+ children from their homes.

    Some pertinent articles:

    Deseret News | First look inside YFZ Ranch
    Deseret News - Video - First look inside YFZ Ranch
    Deseret News | Fort Concho: Tight quarters, fear taking toll on moms, children
    Texas authorities confiscate cell phones of FLDS women at Fort Concho - Salt Lake Tribune
     
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