Just out of interest, do you believe that the Holy Qur'aan is eternal (in the sense that you say that the Vedas are not)?
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Vedic Period, Pre-Vedic Period and Post-Vedic Period
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
Just out of interest, do you believe that the Holy Qur'aan is eternal (in the sense that you say that the Vedas are not)?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Quran was revealed on Muhammad about 1400 years ago, it is a definite time.
Regards
So it didn't exist beforehand?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I don't get one exactly. Please elaborate.
There were many event that happened to Muhammad and are mentioned in Quran. so. Quran could not be earlier than Muhammad. Please
Regards
Many (most, all?) Sunni Muslims believe that the Qur'aan is uncreated, co-eternal with Allaah (and was at the ordained time sent down/revealed to the Holy Prophet saws). Many (the majority of?) Shi'a Muslims believe that the Qur'aan was created. Hence my question.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
There is nothing as such in Quran. The denominations don't matter. Please
Regards
I agree, I was just curious as to your view!
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
The contents of the Vedas are considered eternal because men didn't create them; they were revealed. These revealed hymns were spoken and passed orally for a very long time before anyone compiled them into specific books. There are no authors other than God.
As far as I know, it is very great Hindu personalities in history such as Shankaracharya who explain that the Vedas are eternal. He is one who is considered to be Realised/Enlightened.
It is not necessary for the Vedic hymns themselves to mention that they are eternal truths. It would not serve as proof if they did.
As far as I know, it is very great Hindu personalities in history such as Shankaracharya who explain that the Vedas are eternal. He is one who is considered to be Realised/Enlightened.
It is not necessary for the Vedic hymns themselves to mention that they are eternal truths. It would not serve as proof if they did.
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
The Sanskrit word véda "knowledge, wisdom" is derived from the root vid- "to know". This is reconstructed as being derived from the Proto-Indo-European root *u̯eid-, meaning "see" or "know". The noun is from Proto-Indo-European *u̯eidos, cognate to Greek (ϝ)εἶδος "aspect", "form". Root cognates are Greek ἰδέα, English wit, etc., Latin videō "I see", etc. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas
Vedas form the world oldest religious literature, very much alive, still actively followed, parts of which date from 6000 BC, when the sun rose on the day of vernal equinox in the asterism of Castor and Pollux. Is that not enough for the pecularity? Is there an equal of Vedas in the world?
They are praises of Gods by Aryan people, who later combined with Hindus. Therefore now, Vedas are Hindu religious books. Since they are praises of Gods sung by Vedic poets, therefore, you will not find "I am your Lord God" in Vedas. To claim is not a proof. Many people have claimed many things in History (I would not list them here, though I can and I find them very funny), but a claim does not mean a fig.
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Revealed is a claim without a proof. It can also be said that Mohammad was saying what was convenient to him at that particular time. Like first saying that face Jerusalem and later saying face Mecca. Like saying that God has permitted him to marry the wife of his adopted son. Like saying that God has permitted him to have sex before the period of one month when he had vowed that he would not have sex for a month. Like telling his companions that he went to jannah and met the prophets riding on a white beast. These are claims. Even that he was the chosen messenger of his God is just a claim without any proof. Even the existence of God is a claim without any proof.
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Please quote from Quran the verse/s which relate to each case , one by one with some preceding and some following verses. One could start from the issue first mentioned that I have colored in magenta, if one is serious about the issues. Right? Please
Regards
I think you might have misunderstood the point he was making.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Veda (n.)
ancient sacred Hindu book, 1734, from Sanskrit veda, literally "knowledge, understanding," especially "sacred knowledge," from root vid- "to know," from PIE root *weid- "to see" (related to wit, and to Avestan vaeda "I know," Latin videre "to see;" see vision (n.)). The books are the Rig-, Yajur-, Sama-, andAtharva-veda.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Veda
Do you even actively follow Veda? Please
If yes, then quote for every issue mentioned by one in one's above post with a quote/s from Veda to support one's viewpoint. If one cannot, then Veda does not support one, actively or passively.
If no, then let somebody who actively follows Veda to take up the case. Please
Anybody who believes Veda as a religious scripture! Please
Anybody, please
Regards
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Now I have to quote from Quran too! I can very easily do that, but I would like you to check the relevant verses. Since you asked, here is it:
"The fools among the people will say: "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say: To God belong both east and West: He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight. Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Apostle a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Apostle from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by God. And never would God Make your faith of no effect. For God is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful. We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is God unmindful of what they do. Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other’s Qibla. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their (vain) desires, - then wert thou Indeed (clearly) in the wrong." S. 2:142-145 Y. Ali
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/qiblah.htm
Don't worry, @Madhuri , I can teach him whatever he wants to know.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Yes, I follow Veda actively. I am an atheist because of 'Nasadiya Sukta' where it is written that Gods arose after creation of the universe.
Who verily knows and who can here declare it, whence it was born and whence comes this creation?
The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10129.htm
No ritual starts without the 'Hiranyagarbha Sukta' being recited. In our rituals all Vedic Gods and Goddesses are invoked first. Ghee (Clarified butter) and Barley grains are offered to the Gods through the agency of the fire-God, Agni, just as what was done 5000 years ago. The Gods are given grass seats, just as what was done 5000 years ago. The fire-pit is made with bricks just in the way as was done 5000 years ago. The same number of priests are required in a 'yajna' as were required 5000 years ago. The same prayers from the Vedas are chanted in the same tone as was done 5000 years ago. Hinduism is eternal. It is not affected by time.
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The same claim of a one-time oral tradition later committed to writing could be made of many other old religious literatures (e.g. ancient Egyptian literatures, ancient Sumerian literatures).
But I agree that insofar as the Vedas are pretty old and insofar as many people still actively follow the Vedas - and on the assumption there wasn't a break in people following the Vedas - this does set it apart somewhat from many other literatures.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Let me admit it frankly, Ya'quub, you and Smart_Guy seem to be the only intelligent Muslims on this forum. I respect you. (There may be others too, but I visit Islam forum very rarely).
There has been no break either in the Vedic or the indigenous traditions of Hinduism. Both have chugged along together since times immemorial.
Aup, just wanted to ask this out of curiosity. Why do you consider the above verse to refer to Bhagavan or Brahman? I've always interpreted the 'gods' are referring to the various manifestations of Bhagavan. These include the forms of Vishnu, Brahman, Shiva in their role of maintainers of material existence and also gods such as Indra, Vayu, Surya etc. But I am not sure that there is any sound reason to assume that 'gods' refer to Bhagavan (or Brahman); that is, the intelligent source of all existence.